So Speed Running

Is it being removed with this maintenance? I'll admit I do it whenever possible and would hate to see it gone, but only because Wanderer's Palace gives 0 Mythology and Hard Mode Primals give so few it might as well be 0 (In relation to the difficulty of the fight, not so much Ifrit since lolIfrit but more so Garuda and Titan).

Not to mention removing it would create a -massive- staggering effect in terms of those who were able abuse it vs. those who just recently hit 50 or have yet to hit 50.

I just find it stupid that repairs are cheaper, for grabbing everything and dying repeatedly... than to do the dungeon normally.

1 regular clear of wanderers cost me 750-900 gil repair.
1 speed run cost me 2-300 gil (as a tank.)

And not to even mention even if you kill everything, you may come out with 4-500 gil worth of stuff to vendor on a good run- and are in the hole EVERY time.

I don't mind clearing things as intended, but to slap you in the face and say it's cheaper economically to sacrifice myself a few times, AND it be faster is just laughable.

There is currently nothing the trash drops, aside from your durability, that warrants you killing them off. There's no benefit to it, they don't drop gil, and the items they can drop are split among party members in the round-robin fashion. If they gave us more incentive to kill off the trash then sure I might not find a way to bypass it, but as is, there's just no point in killing trash.

Not to mention letting Mythology stones drop in only one dungeon (I don't count the primals no one does those for fun or to farm stones) was just a poor design in general. It makes no sense to have great gear with only 1 currency that can only be obtained through 1 specific dungeon. Maybe when the new dungeons come out this will change, who knows.

I don't know if lower repair costs is gonna prevent people from wanting to do speed runs. I abhor the concept of speed runs when they are semi-exploits of just running past mobs, but that's a FFXIv staple I guess. Even in 1.0 getting your AF coffers meant just speed run by mobs in AV and DD not fighting anything, but just trying to get to the next room. Its so dumb and I don't understand why this concept is allowed to go on. Why create content if its meant to be skipped past?

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Originally Posted by Pooky

I don't know if lower repair costs is gonna prevent people from wanting to do speed runs. I abhor the concept of speed runs when they are semi-exploits of just running past mobs, but that's a FFXIv staple I guess. Even in 1.0 getting your AF coffers meant just speed run by mobs in AV and DD not fighting anything, but just trying to get to the next room. Its so dumb and I don't understand why this concept is allowed to go on. Why create content if its meant to be skipped past?

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I agree.

They need to make the trash WORTH doing if they want it to be killed though. I mean it doesn't have to make me rich, but it needs to cover the costs of fighting.

And yeah, tomes dropping in that one dungeon is a giant F U. As it is right now, to work on my darklight gear I'm stuck doing wanderers speed runs or castrum speed runs (if I'm able to find 8 people that want to do it that is.)

In general, MMO players tend to be 'path of least resistance' kind of people. So long as the trash mobs in a dungeon take more time and cost more gil to kill than to skip, players will continue trying to skip them.

If SE wants people to clear trash, here is how I would do it:

- Make all the trash generate a tiny bit of aggro on everyone when it is pulled
- Make entering the boss room insta-pull everything from before the boss room
- Drastically reduce the cost of repairs
- Reduce the health of most trash mobs to speed up killing them (or remove some trash all together)
- Make trash mobs drop gil, at an amount greater than the total durability cost of fighting that mob (so killing trash is a net gil gain)

I think doing this would make people okay with killing the trash. Just my 2 gil.

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Originally Posted by Tristaris

They need to make the trash WORTH doing if they want it to be killed though. I mean it doesn't have to make me rich, but it needs to cover the costs of fighting.

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Yep, at least that.

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Originally Posted by Sovereign

In general, MMO players tend to be 'path of least resistance' kind of people. So long as the trash mobs in a dungeon take more time and cost more gil to kill than to skip, players will continue trying to skip them.

If SE wants people to clear trash, here is how I would do it:

- Make all the trash generate a tiny bit of aggro on everyone when it is pulled
- Make entering the boss room insta-pull everything from before the boss room
- Drastically reduce the cost of repairs
- Reduce the health of most trash mobs to speed up killing them (or remove some trash all together)
- Make trash mobs drop gil, at an amount greater than the total durability cost of fighting that mob (so killing trash is a net gil gain)

I think doing this would make people okay with killing the trash. Just my 2 gil.

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Sounds like some good ideas. I would be more than okay with it if those were the options.

Why are people so against speed running? If you want to do it the normal way then just do it the normal way with a group. Every single time i've done a speed run we've always made a group of 4 so that we don't have to ask some random person if they are okay with it or not.

What they need to do is go back to the 1.0 cost of repairing. In 1.0. the cost was 5k to repair. In 1.0 our gil was one decimal higher though. So with our gil being dropped like that. It effectly makes that 5k repair 50k. That is a huge number for something happening so often. Then again. In 1.0, gear overall degraded much, much more slowly. It was only on an actual death that you lost significant durability. If they went back to this model we'd see people less keen on dying repeatedly in the hopes of "staying alive", to make it cheaper on themselves.

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Originally Posted by neverendingxsin

Why are people so against speed running?

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Bc ppl use duty finder for speed runs, which means harassing the poor people who just wanted to get the whole dungeon experience. If everyone who wanted to do speed runs did what you did, no one would have an issue. The problem is that speed runs are becoming a staple of duty finder. That puts undue pressure on players who just want to enjoy the dang game.

Actually, giving us an instance that gives Mythology stones is something we should appreciate. There will be more instances giving the stones released shortly. This is just the first.

As far as saying speed running is somehow advantageous. It really isn't. Regardless of if you speed run or not, you could hit the weekly limit of 300 Mythology stones in a day. If you were running it for the darklight gear, well castrum is faster and you don't speed run that.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Bc ppl use duty finder for speed runs, which means harassing the poor people who just wanted to get the whole dungeon experience. If everyone who wanted to do speed runs did what you did, no one would have an issue. The problem is that speed runs are becoming a staple of duty finder. That puts undue pressure on players who just want to enjoy the dang game.

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To be fair, the boss fights are the enjoyable part of the game. Trash, unfortunately, is not. You can pretty closely approximate the experience of killing trash by spending 5-10 minutes attacking a training dummy. That's why I don't mind speed running it.

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Originally Posted by Asriah

Actually, giving us an instance that gives Mythology stones is something we should appreciate. There will be more instances giving the stones released shortly. This is just the first.

As far as saying speed running is somehow advantageous. It really isn't. Regardless of if you speed run or not, you could hit the weekly limit of 300 Mythology stones in a day. If you were running it for the darklight gear, well castrum is faster and you don't speed run that.

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How are those faster?
First boss +10
Second boss + 20
Third boss/Clear dungeon +50
80 in less than an hour. Some people have cleared in 15min. Plus you get Mytho stones.

I actually like to enjoy my games.

As the healer, I'll let you die if you speed run^^. I don't queue Duty Finder for speed runs, keep that within your FC & out of the general public.

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Originally Posted by Tristaris

I agree.

They need to make the trash WORTH doing if they want it to be killed though. I mean it doesn't have to make me rich, but it needs to cover the costs of fighting.

And yeah, tomes dropping in that one dungeon is a giant F U. As it is right now, to work on my darklight gear I'm stuck doing wanderers speed runs or castrum speed runs (if I'm able to find 8 people that want to do it that is.)

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I don't disagree with that. I've always felt that a dungeon once finished should reward each player with enough money to cover repairs with maybe 0.5 or 1 wipe in mind. That way, once you master the dungeon, you will be making money, but excessive wipes will be costly as they should. Whether they do it via a gil reward for completing the dungeon or more even distribution of allagan pieces, I don't care.

But even if they don't, speed running like the AK runs are never ok, in my opinion. At lv50 if I wanna farm skins for LW, I have to deal with repairs too. Why don't I get the skins directly? If I wanna do FATEs for seals, I have to deal with repairs, why can't I just get the seals? Removal of speed runs is not slowing anyone down. Its making people take the intended amount of time to complete content. Its a MMO, what's the rush? Before the game launched people wanted long and tough endgame content. We celebrated when Yoshi-P announced that some dungeons will take a really long time. And now we wanna bitch about the fact that we can't skip the majority of a dungeon to complete it in 15 minutes unless we are rewarded for it on top of the actual goals. That is silly to me. I won't be opposed to more gil rewards for a dungeon and I'd actually welcome it. But its not a gimme more gil or I'm out situation. Dungeons are supposed to be long and are supposed to have trash. Not every encounter can be a Ifrit, Titan or Garuda.

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Originally Posted by neverendingxsin

Why are people so against speed running? If you want to do it the normal way then just do it the normal way with a group. Every single time i've done a speed run we've always made a group of 4 so that we don't have to ask some random person if they are okay with it or not.

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When speed running is an option, people will do it. Human beings usually take the path of least resistance to every problem. Not only does that hurt new people who actually want to see the dungeon, it hurts the longevity of the game. If endgame is designed so the average person can get in 1-2 AK runs a night, allowing 5-6 AK runs a night is only going to make your content dry up. This is a MMO, content is meant to be repeated and take time.