Controllers don't have a lot of real estate. 16 buttons doesn't last long, and that's with stacking things inside macros, like having circle of scorn macro'd to flash, something I'm not really comfortable with. I haven't even leveled Marauder yet, doing that next, and I can't imagine where I'm supposed to fit in Marauder abilities.
My paladin just earned stoneskin and am scratching my head for what to remove to put it on my bars.
Speaking for xbox controllers here, but I'd assume that since PS3 controllers aren't so different.
Can L1 and R1 (the bumpers) behave like R1 and R2 (the triggers) and allow to press them in conjunction with another key?
Currently, the layout looks like this
Perhaps it could look like thisCode:L2 L2 R2 R2
L2 L2 L2 L2 R2 R2 R2 R2
L2 L2 R2 R2
Or, for something less cluttered, have it when the user presses right bumper, it changes the display toCode:L1 L1 R1 R1
L1 L1 L1 L1 R1 R1 R1 R1
L1 L1 L2 L2 R2 R2 R1 R1
L2 L2 L2 L2 R2 R2 R2 R2
L2 L2 R2 R2
Releasing the bumper, or selecting an action, would put it back to the default trigger view.Code:L1 L1 R2 R2
L1 L1 L1 L1 R2 R2 R2 R2
L1 L1 R2 R2
The game has just launched and controller-based play already threatens to be inferior to keyboard play, purely for the available combinations. More abilities will probably be coming in the future.
I do realize that on the xbox controller, and probably the ps3, L1 is autorun, but autorun can be an action bound to something nice like L1+Y (or triangle for ps3).
I also realize that pressing R1 opens an alternative set of bars but I feel like that interface is clunky. 0.2 seconds makes all the difference sometimes, as we all know, since 0.3 makes the difference in whether or not the server thinks you're out of red spots.
Controller based gameplay, a suggestion
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09-12-2013, 06:47 AMSteeledController based gameplay, a suggestion
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09-12-2013, 06:55 AMDemlix
If you're using an Xbox controller, I'm guessing you're on PC... so the easiest solution I can think of is use a keyboard.
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09-12-2013, 06:58 AMMazi
(I ran out of post for today so imma just edit this haha)
R1 to switch bars is your best friend, learn to master it and you can do stuff SO FAST.
it is literally one button to switch to your next 16 skills, the system is in place and it works great you just have to actually use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeled
Saying .3 seconds to move out of something is completely off topic since while we are pressing our bumpers we never let go of our thumbsticks which is the movement aspect, controllers actually are much better for moving around and argueably give us more time to mess with our skills since we can get to where we need to quicker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeled
Again, it feels weird at first but once you get used to it you can do stuff that fast, this is a completely foreign layout so it feels clunky to begin but after playing a bit it feels completely natural and I can bust out any move I want almost instantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeled
I feel ya, I've definitely almost used Return in the middle of a fight or forgot I was on my Chocobo/Minion bar when trying to fight something xPQuote:
Originally Posted by Steeled
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09-12-2013, 06:59 AMSteeled
One of the things that SE promoted with this game was that controller play would work well. They made a big deal about how they'd really thought upon a solution for the limited real estate. Crossbars work well, but there needs to be more. 16 is simply not enough.
Their "system" can't be faltering 2 weeks in, they need to design a solution.
Alternatively, they could implement a third crossbar that's invoked by holding both triggers at the same time. Either would be better. -
09-12-2013, 07:01 AMSteeledI mentioned in my OP that I knew about this, but I'd still prefer something better. I like having things available in a single combination because the .2 seconds can make all the difference, and quite often does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazi
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09-12-2013, 07:01 AMruinedmirage
By holding down R1, you can bring up any of 8 layouts (even empty ones) by pressing a corresponding direction or face button. As a CNJ, I have my heals and items on one layout, attacks and crossclass skills on another, class switching spread over two layouts, and stuff like mounting, teleport, and random stuff on another. I still have a few layouts that are completely empty still, too.
It seems clunky at first, I'll agree. But after you stop pressing R1 constantly to cycle through them, accidentally skipping the right layout and cycling through them all again .......... and just remember R1 + (relevant button) = specific 16-slot layout, you have essentially 128 hotbar slots accessible within two button presses on a gamepad. It just takes some micromanagement and practice using it effectively. -
09-12-2013, 07:05 AMSteeledWhy must we settle for a clunky interface when they could easily give us something superior? It hasn't happened in this game yet, but I'll admit to have getting lost in macros on occasion in other games, and when everything else is going on, it can be quite stressful to find your orientation.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruinedmirage
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09-12-2013, 07:08 AMSteeledThat's not what I meant. The 0.2 seconds to press the bumper and then press the key combination is what I meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazi
At least give us a way to tone down all the options. One alternate bar is preferable for me. Sorry, but we all have pressed a button combo too fast and ended up completely in the wrong macro set (or at least I have^^) and I dislike the idea. I prefer as much to be readily available as possible.Quote:
Again, it feels weird at first but once you get used to it you can do stuff that fast, this is a completely foreign layout so it feels clunky to begin but after playing a bit it feels completely natural and I can bust out any move I want almost instantly.
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09-12-2013, 07:13 AMevilsohn
Never touch a running system and this system is pretty damn awesome.
Before Final Fantasy I played SWTOR with my PS3 pad via motioninjoy and my layout was similar to this; a bit better I thought at first, but it turns out that this layout is superior.
I use the functions of R1 and L1 as it is mapped now a lot, but if there is one suggestion I'd have it would be R2+L2 - with motioninjoy I Set my L2 as ctrl and my R2 as shift, so I could go ctrl+1-8 or shift+1-8 or ctrl+shift+1-8.
But other than that there is no need to change it at all. -
09-12-2013, 07:20 AMConradusWhat you have to do is organize your hotbars for situation. Put everything you may need in .2 seconds on one hotbar. You live on that hotbar. You put stuff you don't have to do on an instant's notice on the other hotbar. You don't need to put up Stoneskin on a second's notice (you *can't* put up Stoneskin on a second's notice). You put Stoneskin on the second hotbar; needing two button presses to get to it is good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeled
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09-12-2013, 08:29 AMSteeled
Ugh, see that's exactly the problem.
My hotbars are so full of threat tools, that I need to be accessing on .2 seconds notice, that I have to macro things together like cooldowns, so that there's enough room, even if it's impractical to macro them together. Cooldowns, that I also need on a .2 second notice.
I'll break down my bars--
L2 + Dpad
Cover
Shield Swipe
Convalescence + Cure macro'd together
Rage of Halone
L2 + ABXY
Sprint
Sentinel
Hallowed Ground
Awareness + Bulwark macro'd together
R2 + Dpad
Rampart
Shield Bash
Riot Blade
Provoke
R2 + ABXY
Flash + Circle of Scorn macro'd together
Shield Lob
Fight or Flight + Fast Blade macro'd together
Savage Blade
I could move Sprint, but don't want to for the comfort, and for the places that it's needed, it's really needed.
I could move Circle of Scorn, no denying that.
I could move Cure, however keeping Convalescence handy makes sense.
I have nowhere to put Guardian's Will. Unlike other cooldowns, it's a waste to use it beyond its specific purpose.
I have nowhere to put Spirits Within. I would macro Bloodbath from Marauder to Spirits Within.
I can stack foresight into something else, but I'd prefer to keep it separate.
Paladin tanking has two types of abilities in this game. Abilities you're using every few seconds or abilities you need in a second's notice. There's not much for "forget it" buttons. -
09-12-2013, 09:26 AMMacho
I'm using an xbox controller for my pc and I like it so far except I wish I could go backwards through my hotbars. Why do I have to constantly go through them and not back one? Or did I just miss that?
So hitting RB I can go from my main (hotbar 1) to my secondary but instead of just going back to my main I have to go through my minion/teleporting bar and the menu bar before getting back to hotbar 1. Did I miss something? -
09-12-2013, 09:37 AMWLMFIf you hold the Right Bumper you get a cross bar with 1-8 to pick which bar you want to jump to. Not as fast as going straight back but lets you skip that last bar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macho
What I'd like to know is when will SE allow for keybinding other keys on a controller. I am using a Razer Sabertooth and it has 6 extra buttons I can not seem to get the game to recognize. -
09-12-2013, 09:38 AMConradusYes. Press and hold RB1 and your eight face buttons now take you to the hotbar of your choice. Every hotbar you have is one button press away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macho
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09-12-2013, 09:52 AMseikenflash
LOL to sprint on main hotbar
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09-12-2013, 03:35 PMAlipoprocks
I really wish they would give us an option to use the old 1.0 setup of regular hotbars and being able to scroll with dpad. I have gotten more used to the crossbar and am making less mistakes (not no mistakes, especially under pressure). But I have had to combine crossbars with hotbars and that makes it necessary to use a mouse. I never, ever had to use a mouse before.
It was easier to organize abilities too. And I can't stand that I have to remember where I put actions on which bar for all my jobs.
Please SE! Give us option for 1.0 hotbar setup on controller! -
09-12-2013, 03:57 PMPhantasmidThis is exactly what I've been wanting all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfarjamie
I also want to be able to opt to use the bumpers to cycle hotbars forward and back while holding triggers, instead of targeting.
Also, hotbar filtering should not reset you to the lowest allowed hotbar every time you begin or end combat; currently even if your filters are identical, drawing or sheathing your weapon boots you back to bar 1, so it's not even a remotely useful option for me; I'd like to use it to filter out bars 7 and 8 which I use for menu shortcuts and my chocobo, but then it causes problems in dungeons even if both sets of filters are limiting me to bars 1, 2, 3, and 4.
Finally, /commands need fixed so we can reassign pet actions in a summon macro like what the pet hotbar does to keep access to all of our hotbars and control our summons easily. -
09-12-2013, 04:24 PMtexhnolyze
you may want to watch this tutorial
you can make 2 different sets of crosshotbar by changing your stance
your idle crosshotbar set will be different with your battle crosshotbar set
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lof8nKmlTH4 -
09-13-2013, 02:18 AMAlipoprocksOMG! Thank you so much - made it all better. <3Quote:
Originally Posted by texhnolyze
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09-13-2013, 02:20 AMAhlen
Uh, better organization and muscle memory works well.
I can use 32 hotkeys without looking by memory pretty well (Not that I have that many skills to use) The game definitely plays better with a 360 controller than a PS3 controller (Better analog stick setup for movement, more ergonomical, better triggers) -
09-13-2013, 02:28 AMSajittarius
two things that helped me:
You can set the hotbars to only scroll through say 1-3 when weapon out, and other with weapon sheathed. Its in the character config->gamepad menu
Also for arcanist based jobs, you can disable the petbar and put any pet skills you want to use on a normal bar.
These fixed pretty much any issues i had with accidentally using skills, and with switching quickly between bars. It also takes some time to get used to gamepad, its a new way of thinking and if you werent in beta or didnt use this before give it time. -
09-13-2013, 08:15 PMQualaz
What your talking about with the hold both triggers idea I already do. If you are gaming on a PC with the controller you can get a program called xpadder. Use this to set one trigger as shift the other as control and assign all your buttons some value not used in the game or make space by unbinding keys not necessary. Then create a hotbar with the appropriate key bindings. I added 12 new slots this way especially since when you hold both triggers it no longer registers anything but the joy sticks so there is no in game interference.
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09-13-2013, 08:27 PMIskander
For Tanks, I can't speak how things work with a controller. For DPS, However, you can put what you need for a given battle in 16 slots. There are 8 hotbars (7 is you don't include the one with all the red buttons) at your fingertips. For one of those, you can have your main rotation skills, and on the others you can put what you need on a per-battle basis.
As a BLM, I have my Thunder 3 for procs, fire for procs, fire 3, blizzard 3, transpose, swiftcast, rage strikes, flare, conversion, limitbreak, freeze....that takes care of any rotation I need right now. And I haven't needed to go into another hotbar yet. -
09-13-2013, 08:33 PMKio
The problem with switching between two sets of bars, is that i suddenly completely lose access to something that is on bar 1 if I need something on bar 2. I cannot use them both at the same time unless I had the hindsight to duplicate abilities across bar sets. This makes gameplay sort of difficult. I'm all for any solution that allows me to have more abilities on the same bar. Also, until you really remember where your abilities were stored on the extra bars you do not usually look at, it causes a delay in your reaction time while you try to figure out what combo of buttons grants access to it. I know there is floating text but honestly, most of the time I'm so hurried I overlook it.
Off topic addition but I need some help from gamepad users: Is there a way to disable the X button from selecting summoner and chocobo pets completely? In previous test phases it was the best way to quickly target enemies and relevant npc's/objects, but now it's completely useless as it always focuses on my pet, and pressing it again opens up a submenu for the pet. I couldn't find the appropriate filter, and it's been rather detrimental to my gameplay :( -
09-13-2013, 08:39 PMPhantasmidI don't think the filter works properly for it. I could swear I saw a rep make a post somewhere acknowledging it as a known bug...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kio
Unrelated, but my general setup is two or three bars depending on the class, with macros on down and up on both sets cycling forward and back through hotbars, and depending on class, another macro in the same RT+face button position on each bar that moves one-way like tapping RB would, which incidentally feels much faster to me than actually using RB does, as if cycling with RB has some sort of extra animation to it... I set my filters to disable RB entirely as I found myself hitting it while still holding triggers and changing targets unexpectedly. I keep up and down on the first and last sets, respectively, free for skills I want to be able to activate extremely quickly with no thought, like second wind or swiftcast. Depending on the class I might dedicate a particular button combination to having a certain skill available on every single bar, like Shield Bash always being LT+B. -
09-13-2013, 09:17 PMItchyness
2 completely full cross bars for a CNJ is all i need for me. Yes i have to press RB (xbox controller on pc), but i have already memorized all that i need to do and switch back n forth quite quickly. Example, i need to recast protect in the middle of the fight cuz i forgot to refresh it before a boss fight, but i need to cast cure 2 asap soon after. protect is on my bar2, while all heals are on bar1. i begin casting protect/stoneskin/esuna/watever and while im casting it, i am already switching to my bar1 and targeting the tank as a prep to cast my heals asap as soon as i am done casting my first skill. its really not that hard. hell, playing .hack// on the playstation is almost as close to this as it can get without crossbars. the 2.5 global CD helps with this alot, i have noticed.
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09-13-2013, 09:24 PMLethaltyrant
My setup is to use the cross bar with a controller i have all my main attacks setup there (I am a pld) and then i have 2 macro bars mainly with buffs other class actions like raise for example my chocobo summoning and calling out for battle and returning him. All my attacks for my controller are on Right trigger while all my potions, ether, cure, and food stuff are under left trigger seems to work well for me my only issue is targeting i have to hit tab so im holding the controller near the keyboard. If someone can tell me a way to macro targeting the way the tab key does that would be awesome.
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09-13-2013, 09:35 PMBalashark
I do something similar to what Itchyness does in his post (sorry tried to quote it but the old stupid character limit restrictions). I also have a set up for running dungeons and another set up for questing. As a White Mage a lot of abilities you don't need when questing, the only heal I have on that bar is cure 2 it's all you need. On the "running dungeons bar" I don't have any attack spells, you don't need them accept for Repose to stun if need be to get away. So some of the abilities you can scale down to streamline it a bit without gimping yourself.