SCH... are we used?

So.... im a level 50 scholar, and wondering... what is my endgame? do people even take me? like 2 whm's seem so OP right now. i mean... like are we necessary?

No, 2 whms is not OP.. and SCH are great.

Prioritize crit and manually manage your faerie and you'll heal just as well if not better than WHMs. I've had no issues.

SCH and WHM sinergise really well. Optimal set up for an 8 man is to have one of each. The only draw back is that multiple SCH in a group don't work together at all. SCH output is just fine, you don't have anything to worry about.

the order from the best to worst setup in an 8 man party is:

1whm + 1sch > 2whm > 2sch ...

for 4man content there is really not much difference... the only instance where whm is better than sch (better to say easier to use whm than sch) is aurum vale... that is not even a lvl 50 instance so not end game material...

only things i have wrong with scholar healing is Eos's cd's on its last 3 skills for healing and the fact that alot of times it will use it as an autocast when you don't need it to. if those 3 skill were click able instead of auto casting would be better for us healers a little more micromanaging but would help out in the 8mans and raids. same for Selene's healing last 3 abilites

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Originally Posted by Comalol

the order from the best to worst setup in an 8 man party is:

1whm + 1sch > 2whm > 2sch ...

for 4man content there is really not much difference... the only instance where whm is better than sch (better to say easier to use whm than sch) is aurum vale... that is not even a lvl 50 instance so not end game material...

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I'd say demon wall alone is worse than all of vale. The again, I've seen some people take too many liquifies, and it gets too out of hand fast...

thanks alot guys. it just seems that 2 medica2 + regen is just.. too good :P but i did see a video of a sch+whm healing bahamut so that made me feel better. and yeah demon wall gets out of hand fast.

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Originally Posted by Celsius

So.... im a level 50 scholar, and wondering... what is my endgame? do people even take me? like 2 whm's seem so OP right now. i mean... like are we necessary?

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See Celsius I think SCH are OP as well. Flashy skills, awesome faeries, a fun to play class I would say.

And like Comalol said :

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Originally Posted by Comalol

1whm + 1sch > 2whm > 2sch

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:)

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Originally Posted by Dragin

only things i have wrong with scholar healing is Eos's cd's on its last 3 skills for healing and the fact that alot of times it will use it as an autocast when you don't need it to. if those 3 skill were click able instead of auto casting would be better for us healers a little more micromanaging but would help out in the 8mans and raids. same for Selene's healing last 3 abilites

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Set your pets to "obey" and they will only ever use their first skill(3 seconds) automatically and never use the others. You have to do this every time you zone, though.

Personally, as PLD tank(50) I prefer SCH for heals. Mitigation tank + mitigation heals = win. They take more skill than a WHM to be "good" though. I would say, practice healing some 50 dungeons with some friends before you do pubs and get everybody hating you cause you're still learning.

Priotirize crit and your 1k crit heals give me a 2k damage barrier afterwards. Mmmmmmmmmm.

Sch + Whm will be far superior to 2x Whm or 2x Sch, though I will say 2 Sch is the worst of the two. Over-all I have no issue Scholar healing. AoE healing is the roughest part, primarily after large damage bursts on the group but its still managable. I find the healing ST to be far better with shield providing that extra edge. 20% heal is AMAZING to combine with your big shield heal and can keep up a tank real well, particularly using the shield as a buffer before damage even starts.

SCH and WHM work very well together. One thing that SCH apart is the fact that we can pre shield. Casting Succor at different points throughout a fight in order to mitigate some AoE damage is very useful. I will even cast it if everyone is full and before a pull. My Succor hits for about 400 give or take and 600 crits, that is a pretty big shield. I think the best setup by far is one of each. 2 SCH do not work great together but it is very doable.

As a White Mage myself, I love having a Scholar in my 8 man groups, we just work so well off of each others abilities and heals. However you won't find that people will prefer one over the other (at least not in my experience), but I could see where some one might take a White Mage over a Scholar if they already have a Scholar in the group, and vice versa with 2 White Mages vs getting another Scholar. Mileage may vary, but don't worry your spot as a healer in groups is secure.

I prefer bringing a scholar that uses support type pet =P

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Originally Posted by fanservice

I'd say demon wall alone is worse than all of vale. The again, I've seen some people take too many liquifies, and it gets too out of hand fast...

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What's wrong with Demon Wall? SCH Faerie can clip into the wall (so repel isn't an issue), and my SCH can put out respectable DPS on the thing. Cleric Stance + our dots + spamming Ruin II/Energy Drain is pretty much all this fight is. If bees spawn or some derps get hit by the Murder Hole, just cast Succor/focus target with the Faerie. If DPS is low (it shouldn't be with you helping out), take off CS and spam Succor. It's practically enough to keep me up if I stand in the goo.

As a PLD, I pref sch over whm in every situation. The only time it's ok to have a whm is if we already have a sch, and even then, I normally prefer double SCH or SCH+WHM (edit it also greatly depends on player skill with the healer).

WHM is horrible IMO and needs to be addressed by SE and fixed.

Also, as a SCH Selene is garbage. Please never ever ever ever use her in any HM Prime fights or Dungeons, it will just make the other healer have to work harder and hate you.

Yea if you play Sch correctly you can get in your DOT's like on Ifrit I set Eos behind Ifrit and move her back anytime she is knocked back and she can keep the tank healed with a few heals from me here and there til after the Inferno move then got to focus more on healing hell even on AK Demon Wall is easy to heal just use Succor after each line movement and hit sprint right before Repel and as long as the team stop you from getting paralyzed you are golden.

I like having a SCH in 8 man content. WHM and SCH synergize well. :)

Though a few SCH I've seen have been pretty holier then thou towards WHM as a whole, which is a bit disheartening. Both classes can co exist :D

I do forsee something happening though, either WHM is getting a buff to MP management or SCH is getting a huge nerf to it.

Frankly, I think scholar is better once you know the fight and can pre-shield effectively. Without doing that, it seems a bit challenging to catch up on group damage... But if you mitigate via shields, they are awesome.

Whm can heal up a little better, but at a huge mp disadvantage. Currently, the classes are not balanced IMO.

I like the different styles, but the SCH is more unique without equal drawbacks, IMO. Overcoming the limitation is learning the fight.. Which every healer really needs to do anyway. Pet UI isn't great, but I consider that a system issue, not an intended class design issue and hopefully will be fixed.

The trend I am seeing is the whm being considered the lame healer, which is sad.

Whenever I'm on, I notice more people asking for 2 WHMs than a WHM + SCH due to the fact that both WHMs can cast regen and medica 2 on a target and all 4 spells will stack. As I said in other threads either let SCH shields stack, or prevent WHMs spells from stacking... only way to stop people from searching for 2 WHMS for 8 man content. Also from what I have seen... SCHs don't seem to crit too often... or maybe it's just cause most of the "just turned 50" gear is absolute garbage for a SCH. WHM does seem a bit OP to me compared to what I have seen SCHs do... Therefore, I haven't bothered to use mine yet.

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Originally Posted by Kasenumi

Personally, as PLD tank(50) I prefer SCH for heals. Mitigation tank + mitigation heals = win. They take more skill than a WHM to be "good" though. I would say, practice healing some 50 dungeons with some friends before you do pubs and get everybody hating you cause you're still learning.

Priotirize crit and your 1k crit heals give me a 2k damage barrier afterwards. Mmmmmmmmmm.

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50 SCH here (havent done coils but finished relic), shields from heal make it much easier for PLD tank to last through heavy hits, esp. when bosses can 100%-20% on top of a shield. (pretty much 1hko if the boss autoattacks right after and you have no heal readied beforehand)

so yes, there is a place for you :D (though I feel its much harder since the AoE heals are underwhelming)

I agree with the other posters - use both. Having a Scholar around lets the WHM focus on just the tank(s). Having a bard pumping mana up makes things even better.

The game isn't about just one class/job and what it can do, it is about using all the classes/jobs effectively together.

That being said, I'm seeing a lot of Scholars who don't have at least THM26 or CNJ34, and I'm sorry, but they are gimping themselves into what could be possible. There is a reason SE gave us cross class abilities, and people need to be able to use them. Swiftcast? Stoneskin? Come on....get there!

Question for lvl 50 SCH:
Are you using the Steady command usually? If i use the steady command and then i use manuallly Embrace, will the pet automatically turn to guard or will stay in steady mode?
Because obey on EOS sucks or its bugged... I like the AI when she uses Embrace but the AoE Regen is wasted.

The only real problem with scholar is Titan HM. Two white mages can heal up the massive AoE where a scholar really slows down the AoE healing there. I can't speak for coil but for the rest of the content I prefer having a scholar alongside when I'm White Mage. Also right now stacking 2 regens and 2 medica II is slightly better than anything a scholar can come with. This is mostly from a min/max PoV. Apart from that I wouldn't really consider Scholar as being inferior to a White Mage. More like White Mage is inferior to a Scholar because the only thing we have is really the burst healing apart from that the scholar does it better.

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Originally Posted by golfmike

That being said, I'm seeing a lot of Scholars who don't have at least THM26 or CNJ34, and I'm sorry, but they are gimping themselves into what could be possible. There is a reason SE gave us cross class abilities, and people need to be able to use them. Swiftcast? Stoneskin? Come on....get there!

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I agree with Swiftcast, but not Stoneskin. It's 10% on a SCH, so 500-600 hp on a Warrior tank. That's less than a non-crit Aldo on a longer cast time and for the same MP. It's only useful for before a fight starts, but even then it's not really that great.

stoneskin is a waste on sch. Our lvl 30 ability can do it great with less casting time.

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Originally Posted by Acharial

The only real problem with scholar is Titan HM. Two white mages can heal up the massive AoE where a scholar really slows down the AoE healing there. I can't speak for coil but for the rest of the content I prefer having a scholar alongside when I'm White Mage. Also right now stacking 2 regens and 2 medica II is slightly better than anything a scholar can come with. This is mostly from a min/max PoV. Apart from that I wouldn't really consider Scholar as being inferior to a White Mage. More like White Mage is inferior to a Scholar because the only thing we have is really the burst healing apart from that the scholar does it better.

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Actually on Titan as a Sch I tend to do better healing wise then 2 Whm because I can pre Succor between jumps and stomps and Eos has no mp so she is helping the Whm and me save mp.

pls don't wasting your time on stoneskin... the only use for it as SCH is to precast it before fight and only if u'r running a 4 man or a 8 man without a whm... also paladin can do the same as u since they also have access to that skill (true to be told not many pala feel like lvling a conj that hig... and I can't biase them on that...)

as a WHM myself I find it only usefull when i need to give a specific member of the party an hp boost before a specific phase (and that only if I feel that he have too few max hp due to death debuff or feel like I will not have time to top him off right after the phase...)... but with the same mana and less time a sch can do the same (or better if he crit) or with double mana and almost same time (with spell speed buff from faire) on 2 target or one target + lesser aoe shield on the rest...

SS is really a poor skill for non WHM... and still situational for WHM (situational as for uses out of preshielding before fight begin that is a must have for our treat generation)

on the other side... 26 lvl as THM are really a must have... thee are so much uses for that insta cast that I discover a new one every day... and the 60 sec CD is really short... well if it was shorter it will be even better... but it is already an OP skill as it is ^^'


PS: for those that prefer 2 WHM to WHM+SCH ... they didn't have the chance to test what those 2 healer combined can do or had a really bad SCH (but really really bad...) with them once and jumped the gun deciding that all SCH are the same... or else are reaaaaally poor player that can't avoid a single avoidable aoe and need a constant double med II on them... that refull them faster than med II + aoe heal+ shield... but put much more stress on the healers... and for those that think that double regen on the tank is OP... they haven't seen what a regen + critted shield can do... With the SCH i usally run around when she crit we can both swich off from tank healing and take our time toppin off the group or simply reccing mana or even trowing out some dps...

Stoneskin and Adolquium stack. You can stoneskin before a fight to help reduce damage taken from the boss' first AoE. On bosses with adds, where you know the tank will have trouble grabbing them immediately, Stoneskin + Adolquiuim prior to the add phase on yourself will probably be the difference between a wipe and a successful run. At least, that's how it has been for me in the lower dungeons.

50 WHM and only 31 SCH. Honestly, it seems like it takes more skill for a WHM to manage their enmity but still keep everyone alive at the same time. I realize my SCH is very low leveled. But I find it incredibly boring. Fairy does most of the healing, and so far her AI doesn't seem as bad to me as some people claim.

But that is just for me. In 8 man, I definitely like having a SCH over another WHM.

As a lvl 50 SCH (and lvl 34 WHM), I've been running nearly all the lvl 50 instances and its going fine.

SCH advantages:
1. Has shields
2. Doesn't going oom (easy)
3. Cool pet buff (spell/skill haste, healing potency/resistance/aoe buff stuff)
4. Instant 20% healing spell, which you can spam at most 3x per minute (takes practice, but saved many asses).

However what I regret not having from WHM stufff are:
1. Aoe medica heals for pure heals.
2. Not having a cure 2, which is more powerful (but less mana efficient).
3. Somehow WHMs can resurrect people with no death penalty.
4. The panic 100% heal thingy (Instead the SCH 20% heal spam thing compensates though in a way, cuz u can u use it more often).

I would still prefer playing a SCH anytime, since ur kind of an underdog. And you have a higher chance of getting another WHM to combine the strengths of both healer types.

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Originally Posted by Birdeh

3. Somehow WHMs can resurrect people with no death penalty.

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sch can do that as well... but it is on the limit of bug using (for both WHM and SCH)... the trick is simply to cast an aoe heal that tick during the rise animation for whm the timing is to start casting medica I as soon as the target pop under your position... don't remeber the cast time of sch aoe heal but if it's the same that will do the trick for u too... if it has different cast time u only need to get the timing right...

PS: about what u said on mana efficency.. it is true until whm start getting good lvl 50 equip... once the get a good amount of piety from that (all my point went to mind so all my piety is from gear...) your natural regen + shroud will be enough to let u linger around 75% mana in most fight and drop to 50% only in the most aoe intensive... anyway this doesn't make SCH subpar to whm... all other aspect hold true + sch can use their shield (both single and aoe) to mitigate unavoidable aoe dmg before they happen and so not incurring in the risk of tank getting hit really hard while they are healing the party... there where many situation where healing as a dowble WHM i found my self forced to use benediction (off gcd insta refull on 5 min cd) on the tank because he was getting bashed while we both healer were restoring the party health after an aoe transition... same fight when paired with a SCH went much more easy and I was the only one healing a less dmged party while he was healing and shielding the tank in the mean time...

Much to my dismay, I wish all of the Scholar shields stacked the way WHM HoTs do :-(

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Originally Posted by Lebeau

Much to my dismay, I wish all of the Scholar shields stacked the way WHM HoTs do :-(

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while I can understand the pain of 2 sch not stacking with eachother... it's painly obiovus what shield stacking will make of most fight... a critted succor is already enough to turn big unavoidable aoe into medium/lesser aoe... take 2 critted equipped SCH with stacking shield and most aoe burst will turn into "OHH what was that shiny animation the boss just did for?"

it will even come to make some boss mechanics trivial (think at ifrit hm failed nails or garuda hm phase 1 to 2 transation with few or no rock remaining... tank and shielded high vitality mdps can already survive those... get double critted shield on every party member and u can ignore those mechanics and just burn down the boss without thinking...) ... even more embarassing... just have the 2 high crit sch fire a succor every 20 sec... u can totally forget about the party health and only focus on tank aside for that one cast every 20 sec -_-' no rush to get people topped... no dps dead due to one wron step into an aoe... no tank dead because healer was forced to turn to party heal...

with those shield as they are stacking will make them too much OP... in order for them to stack they should be reworked with the healing potency increased by 50% and the shield potency reduced to 50% of the healed amount (100% healed amount for critted adloquim) but that will totally transform the sch into a different thing... no more a preentive healer but just an healer with little shield added that aren't even enough to cover for a few dot ticks...

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Originally Posted by fanservice

I'd say demon wall alone is worse than all of vale. The again, I've seen some people take too many liquifies, and it gets too out of hand fast...

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It's funny to read this, since in my group I don't heal AT ALL during demon wall. I just set my fairy on auto and switch to cleric stance and help DPS, we usually kill it before adds spawn.

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Originally Posted by Grimm_Apollo

SCH and WHM sinergise really well. Optimal set up for an 8 man is to have one of each......

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This!

I was in The Preatorium with a SCH and it worked extreamly well, even when players dident move out of stuff and so on. We had 5/8 players(including me) who had never been in the instance before and had only one wipe on each of the Ultima fights, but that was due to players who needed to see the fight first. the second try was like day and night, with none or only a few deaths.

So I would personally prefer to team up with a SCH, rather than another WHM :)

I have a SCH and WHM at 31 and I'd say from a leveling perspective that the biggest difference right now is that with the WHM I do have mana & threat issues that are non-existent on the SCH.

I'm a 50 WHM and I prefer a SCH over a second WHM. Things seem to go smoother with our healing in combo :)

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Originally Posted by Birdeh

2. Not having a cure 2, which is more powerful (but less mana efficient).
3. Somehow WHMs can resurrect people with no death penalty.

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For 3, the trick is to start casting Succor as soon as their body disappears to be rezed. What's happening is that you can't single-target someone while they are in the Raise animation (you'll end up casting on yourself if they are targetted), but you CAN hit them with AOEs while they are in the animation. As they don't get the "debuff" until the animation has finished, all you need to do is hit them with an AOE heal before the Raise animation finishes to cancel them from getting the debuff.

For 2, remember that Aldo, while it lists as a 300 potency heal, is actually a 600 potency heal thanks to the shield compared to WHM's 650 potency Cure II. Considering you get free 300 potency heals from your Faerie, I'd say an Aldo + a faerie heal is significantly more valuable than a Cure II!

Didn't played my best, but here is why SCH + WHM is awsome

http://www.twitch.tv/neko_whippet/c/2921351