The problem with FATES

1. FATES are the best way to level by a huge margin. Everything else is a waste of time. From level 46-49 there is a gap of no quests, which kinda forces you to grind out FATES. Unless you want to be massively inefficient doing leves and dungeons.

2. Endgame FATES are a terrible addition to the game. Odin and Behemoth are a joke in their current states. Nobody can enjoy the fight because 3/4 of the whole server is zerging into one area with all their pets and companions.

3. Grinding FATES teach you nothing of group game-play. Tanks don't learn to tank. Healers don't learn to heal. DPS don't learn anything about focusing a single target or crowd controlling another. FATES reward people that can just spam tagging abilities. Why learn to do any of these when 95% of all the FATES are just zerg spam fest? As time goes on people will see more and more players in 50 dungeons and primal fights whom have terrible gear and have no idea how to play their class properly.

Some solutions:
1. Increase the experience from leves and dungeons to match the efficiency of FATE parties.
2. Make Guildhests worth doing more than one time.
3. Introduce more FATES that reward proper team play.

Also adjust FATE's so that mobs have more HP so people can get to them in time and contribute enough to get full credit. There's nothing more annoying than running across a map to get to the next FATE only for it to be almost completed and have the cycle repeat itself all the time.

FFXIV: A FATE Reborn!

I agree with every point the OP makes. In addition, I suggest raising the exp reward from Battlecraft leves to equal that of Tradecraft leves and possibly adding optional HQ goals. When I'm getting 3k exp from a Battlecraft leve and 12k exp from a Tradecraft leve of the same level, there's a flaw somewhere.

(And no, it isn't because there are fewer ways to level tradecraft disciplines; combat disciplines don't get 1800+ exp per kill, so it isn't a matter of trying to balance leveling speed.)

Theres are 2 simple fixes:

1) Halve exp and double or triple gold earned. This will solve some gold issues while slowing down fate grinds to be on par with other types of leveling

2) Make exp start to slowly lower the more people that are present. This would cause people to use multiple zones instead of just 'the most efficient'
ex:
1-24 people = full exp
24-50 people = 75% exp
50-100 people = 50% exp

I feel it would be enough to slow down zerging

when a fate zone is overloaded I have little choice of somewhere else to go depending on the level range unless I join a fate party and then can't queue for dungeons (which may be less exp but are much more fun).

tbh once your quests run dry, the only way to reasonably level a second class is through FATES. So they really shouldn't touch the exp. Once the big zerg of people is done getting 50, fates will be very underpopulated if anything.

It's exactly what happened to GW2. (Since FATES are a direct rip from GW2's active events)

Excellent post! To be honest this is what made ffxi great! You had to learn how to play with people early on, you had to learn how to play your job early on. Fates, or dynamic events, are just for zerging down mobs. It's so chaotic. I can barely see what the hell is going in with all the abilities from people popping off.

They just need to make FATEs scale higher than they are. Currently, no matter how big the zerg is, the HP of the FATE mobs caps out rather low, making it nearly impossible for some people to get credit and impossible to get credit if you're not very nearby the FATE when it spawns.

As for the OP's point 3: FATEs aren't meant to teach you how to party. That's what the mandatory dungeon runs are for. Also, once all the people who aren't going to subscribe at the end of the free month leave, there will be a significant drop in zerging.

Part of my issue with Fates is how the contribution system is greatly skewed towards AOE DD. The Mobs in Fates die so quickly, I have a hard enough time landing hits on mobs. I end up having to spam FLASH in order to build any kind of contribution. Fates also seem to discourage players from playing their intended role. I've been in a growing number of Fates where healers will not heal me while I'm tanking because they are too worried about their contribution. Fates as they are seem broken.

So I wanna lay down some maths, I've not gotten to deep into this but, per hour from grinding instances is about 150k EXP an hour at high 40s, if it takes you ~2 minutes to complete a FATE, and you get ~12.3k EXP per FATE, you would need to do 12.19 FATEs per hour to get 150k EXP an hour, now in theory at 2 minutes per FATE you could get 30 done if you could travel fast enough to the FATEs, you'd earn ~369k EXP per hour, BUT from personal experience, I've seen it take up to 10 minutes for a new FATE to pop up on any point on the map, some times they will pop faster, some times they take their sweet time. So if it takes ~5 minutes per FATE to pop up (excluding the chances of 2 fates being near each other or up at the same time) you're only gonna get ~12 done per hour if you even make it to the FATE in time to get gold.

unless someone can point me to solid data on FATE timers, FATEs are unlikely to be faster EXP then instances if you have a 4 man party for spamming instances

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Originally Posted by Feifonwong

Excellent post! To be honest this is what made ffxi great! You had to learn how to play with people early on, you had to learn how to play your job early on. Fates, or dynamic events, are just for zerging down mobs. It's so chaotic. I can barely see what the hell is going in with all the abilities from people popping off.

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You can disable seeing abilities in your character settings, although I do agree that it is too chaotic. My first FATE as a healer, I have the pleasure of finding out that healing people grants me no exp, and I was wasting my time. To top it all off, I'm playing on a PS3 that requires all players to load before enemies. Even if I'm at a FATE, most likely I won't be able to target any enemies because they don't load in time. PS3 FATE is completely broken and most PS3 players won't be able to level with them unless they can get to the FATE before 20~ other players show up.

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Originally Posted by tukuiPat

unless someone can point me to solid data on FATE timers, FATEs are unlikely to be faster EXP then instances if you have a 4 man party for spamming instances

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If you are in a fate party, you will almost always get gold. Also you need to consider in your math the fact that dungeons have large down time too. Sure you get 150k in a dungeon, but then you are sitting around waiting another 30 minutes to an hour for your next dungeon, while you could have been in a fate party grinding it out nonstop.

No Fate Except What You Make

Battlecraft leves (and to an extent, grand company leves as well) need to receive a huge buff to their rewards. The exp/gil is pitiful as it stands.

That alone might solve the whole dilemma of FATE being the only viable route to exping.

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Originally Posted by Bustercucumbers

If you are in a fate party, you will almost always get gold. Also you need to consider in your math the fact that dungeons have large down time too. Sure you get 150k in a dungeon, but then you are sitting around waiting another 30 minutes to an hour for your next dungeon, while you could have been in a fate party grinding it out nonstop.

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Not if you have that FATE party go into the dungeons, I find having a group spam dungeons is the fastest way to level, not FATES. Why does everyone seem to think having a FATE party is the fastest way, when you can take said FATE party and dungeon non-stop, no downtime waiting for a cue, this, would effectively give you more xp in the long run then grinding FATES. You don't cue up for FATES, you shout to build the party, you don't have to cue up for the dungeons either, you can shout for the party effectively removing the long wait time of the duty finder.

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Originally Posted by Bustercucumbers

If you are in a fate party, you will almost always get gold. Also you need to consider in your math the fact that dungeons have large down time too. Sure you get 150k in a dungeon, but then you are sitting around waiting another 30 minutes to an hour for your next dungeon, while you could have been in a fate party grinding it out nonstop.

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I'm actually getting ~200k EXP from instances. I'm also queuing for them with a Tank, Healer and 2nd DPS. Granted not everyone can have friends that cover these roles but nothing stops people from trying to find them in shout either.

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Originally Posted by seikenflash

Not if you have that FATE party go into the dungeons, I find having a group spam dungeons is the fastest way to level, not FATES. Why does everyone seem to think having a FATE party is the fastest way, when you can take said FATE party and dungeon non-stop, no downtime waiting for a cue, this, would effectively give you more xp in the long run then grinding FATES.

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I think this is right. Though right now FATEs my seem like the fastest way to 50 I found it isn't. I did questing and dungeons all the way to 48 with a little FATE here and there to cap out my level and earn some seals. Now if a person wants to level up solely by FATE that's on them.

P.S. You are right about Guildhest though because the rewards are meager after the initial run and SE needs to address this.

TBH i enjoy fate grinding if you have some sort of large aoe. I just like to sit there and stare at all the pretty lights and colors and treat it like a fireworks show.

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Originally Posted by Tatiana

Also adjust FATE's so that mobs have more HP so people can get to them in time and contribute enough to get full credit. There's nothing more annoying than running across a map to get to the next FATE only for it to be almost completed and have the cycle repeat itself all the time.

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Welcome to being a mage in FATE. If there are a good deal of people at the event and you are there when the wave starts you can power nuke maybe one mob. After that because of cast time you can not get any attacks on other mobs that are now less than 1/2 HP.