Respect: A Simple Word

Greetings, my fellow Square Enix Forumites! Today I'm here to talk about the meaning of respect since that seems lost on many. This issue affects all sides, so it'd be best to begin there.

Foreign Communication:

Starting with our side of the world, I've noticed that many people will instantly become enraged for the smallest of reasons and chew out Square Enix, Yoshida, and even foreigners because they were upset. This is not a correct or healthy behavior, and it was obviously brought about because of the freedom provided in the USA. You'll yell all day because nobody knows who you are or what you look like over the internet, but that's no excuse for how you treat EVERYBODY over the internet. Do NOT place all the blame on your future and past companions, alright? Treat them with respect, no matter their background or experience. We'll all be happier for it if we act like what we've been called for years...a community.

Of course, that doesn't negate the reactions people not from America have. Allow me to start by saying if you have EVER said "Typical Americans", "That's how it is in America", or "You all act like children" then you are in the wrong instantly. If you've said these phrases you are ignorant and rude, and doubly so if you continue to believe these things. It's a gross generalization, and every time you make one like that, people on my side of the world bite back. I impart upon you the same wisdom I wish you give all of my fellow forumites...we should start acting like the community we are and support both each other and Square Enix.

TL;DR: Respect each other. Be humble and examine all sides of a point before you begin to hate each other. Show respect, and it will be shown to you.


Defending Square Enix:

I'll start off by saying that if people assume the simplest act of saying they like Square Enix is "White Knighting" that they are also wrong. It all comes down to personal taste, but we're all here for a reason...we're here to play the game. We can express our displeasure, but when we start attacking Square Enix we've done something wrong. Perhaps some people hate on Square Enix because all the "cool kids" do it, or maybe some people have a real reason to hate Square Enix all the way down to its core, I make no assumptions. All I'll say on this point is accessibility is not a bad thing. This game is easy to start and be integrated in to, but difficult to master. That's a perfect balance, but some people see the ease of access as a failing point for this game, and to them I say...you're wrong. Let's support Square Enix and make for a better game with constructive opinions!


Construction and Destruction:

One final point...being constructive means giving valid points and making a list of how you think things could be implemented, and how it'd help the game. Many people are destructive in their way of showing their opinions or displeasure, but this isn't the way we'll reach Mr. Yoshida's ears. We must show that we're a mature audience and that we can handle this like adults. We don't need to scream at him or cry and hope he hears us, instead, we must act as he does. We must be professional.

Professionalism being key has always been...well...key. Do you not believe that we'll be responded to in a more positive manner if we act in a more positive manner? I'm not saying you have to like Square Enix, Yoshida, or A Realm Reborn, but I AM saying you should act as if you're speaking to the man in public. Show that you can organize your points in a decent way, and for goodness sake don't scream at the man. If you wouldn't do it in public, why in the world would you do it when the guy is in a respected company? Treat him like a man, not like a punching bag.


The point behind all of this:

No long paragraphs this time, so I'll keep it short. I only post this to foster a sense of actual community, and knowing that some people will disagree with me, will attempt to set an example by being equally as patient with them as I want you all to be with each other. It's not that hard to understand.

(I had more written but I'm tired...think on what I've said for now.)

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Originally Posted by Soldowner

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Thanks, mom!

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Originally Posted by Laeore

Thanks, mom!

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Dude. I'm a bro.

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Originally Posted by Soldowner

Dude. I'm a bro.

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Yeah, but my dad never felt the urge to sling pointless/mindless moral tirades.

Refreshing ideas, Soldowner. Don't listen to the negativity.

Your "lesson" (so to speak) is lost on Laeore, and unfortunately much of the community, but it heartens me to see some players now and then such as yourself who understand the importance of social behavior in an online setting. I can only hope some will read your post and walk away with some form of personal growth.

It's not really "falsely" typical if it has a basis in truth. Considering all the tourists that come to my city from the USA for one reason or another and act like prats, someone saying, "Typical so and so" isn't really ignorant. It's something learned through experience. Stereotypes usually have a basis in truth and considering my own girlfriend, who is an American, is ashamed of her own people and how they act towards the international community on personal levels, I'd say it's not too far off the mark. That's not to say every American acts that way. I've got quite a few good American friends who don't, but these same friends will tell you the self-entitled attitude and 'Murrica > you attitude is pretty rampant. Ever play any of the CoD series? The amount of racist/homophobic comments is quite appalling.

While I do feel the OP is a little preachy considering the subject matter it's incredibly difficult to come across otherwise and I do agree with all the points made in it.

If we want this game to be a pleasant experience then we need to be pleasant people - I'd say it's not difficult but it does seem to be beyond some :/

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Originally Posted by Laeore

Yeah, but my dad never felt the urge to sling pointless/mindless moral tirades.

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Maybe you would have turned out better if he did.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

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But it IS ignorance. You are basing your opinions of an entire country on a handful of people you have met and because your girlfriend is "ashamed" of her own people. Even if you have met a couple hundred people or even a couple thousand that does not make up an entire population. Don't even bring up COD. That's hardly an American only issue if you have ever watched the pro series. Its funny. So many get pissed when their race or country is attacked with stereotypes yet they seem to think its not the same when they say Americans are self-entitled jackasses. Every country has its bad and its good. America is no different than where you live like it or not.

Just want to point out I try to be nice to everyone. I don't care if you are male, female, American, Canadian, Russian, Japanese, Chinese....I just don't care. Everyone is human. But attack me or my country based off the same stereotypes that you claim to hate and its hard to be nice about it.

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Originally Posted by Ralos

Your "lesson" (so to speak) is lost on Laeore, and unfortunately much of the community, but it heartens me to see some players now and then such as yourself who understand the importance of social behavior in an online setting. I can only hope some will read your post and walk away with some form of personal growth.

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Gimme a freakin' break. This thread, like the numerous other ones like it is pointless. You're going to run into nice people and not nice people. This is present in every culture, and the idea that Americans culture is somehow different and fostering of crappy behavior is insulting. It is a personal decision to be a nice community participant. I'm sorry if I don't feel the need to high five the fanboys for a spotlight on how nice and tolerant I am, while frowning out Americans like that demographic is even remotely homogenous enough to lump together anyways.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

That's not to say every American acts that way. I've got quite a few good American friends who don't, but these same friends will tell you the self-entitled attitude and 'Murrica > you attitude is pretty rampant.

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It's easy to fall into that type of thinking. I have to remind myself that the people who act that way are the loudest and the brashest, and the ones most likely to go around thumping chests and proclaiming how righteous everything they love and believe is. Really that's true of just about everything said by Soldowner, but it's really easy to become disheartened and feel like that's the default when the truth is that most reasonable people are just trying to get through their day and avoid conflict with the aforementioned types of people.

Anyway, I'm glad you said what you did, OP. If even only one person reads it and thinks "maybe I have been a little ridiculous" then you've accomplished your goal, in my opinion.

Unfortunately OP, the dislike of American behavior and subsequent dismissal of American 1st world problem whining is quite warranted. You're actually the one making the gross generalizations. Very, very few people make comments like "All Americans are children." But when people see bad behavior from an obvious American, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging it. America has a reputation among the rest of the world as being the rudest country for a reason. Because there are more than enough Americans supporting the stereotype. If you want to be angry with anyone, be angry at our fellow countrymen who only continue their ignorant behavior (though luckily I have the good fortune to have left the country and have the unique perspective that allows me to see that the stereotype is more than warranted).

Your post has some good points in it, but it mostly comes off as apologetic, a bit arrogant, and naive. It's never a good idea to lecture about morality to people. If you feel like trying to teach, do it by example, not by lecture.

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Originally Posted by Tule

Maybe you would have turned out better if he did.

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How astute! I must be a horrible person because I don't agree with OP's happy-feel-good message of contempt for 3/4 of a continent.

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Originally Posted by Xenogias

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It's your opinion that it's ignorance. You can't say what people are basing their opinions off of. For example, if I held the opinion that Americans in general are ignorant or used the phrase, "typical American," it's because my experiences are based off the thousands I've interacted with whether it's via gaming, real life encounters via tourists or when I lived there. I've met many different types of people from different parts of the world due to my travels and I can say that Americans are the worst when it comes to ignorance and lack of manners/respect. Why? Well, when questioning my friends and girlfriend about this, it's because that's how a good deal of them were educated growing up. That America is the best and f**k the rest. You seemed to ignore the part where I said not every American is like that. Learn to read something in its entirety before replying.

How ironic that a thread titled 'Respect' ended up causing a flamewar.

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Originally Posted by Laeore

How astute! I must be a horrible person because I don't agree with OP's happy-feel-good message of contempt for 3/4 of a continent.

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No, you're a horrible person because you responded horribly. Instead of making a point you sarcastically insulted him. Not that I did much better, but at least I responded to someone who was only being sarcastically rude, and not someone trying to make the community better.

But if you curse a lot, insult people, and show how much angst you have, you get street cred. Which you can eventually cash in for mindless sheep followers.

Come on man. What could be better then your own little cult of personality.

Respect is a two way road.

You cannot expect someone to respect you if you've already insulted them. Especially at the height of emotion.

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

But if you curse a lot, insult people, and show how much angst you have, you get street cred. Which you can eventually cash in for mindless sheep followers.

Come on man. What could be better then your own little cult of personality.

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Then again, this worked fantastic for me so whatever works best for you.

I think it basically boils down to the golden rule: treat others the way you want to be treated yourself. That should transcend culture and continents really. Also, we could use a little more positivity in these here forums. Anyone have any ideas how to make something like that come about? Appreciation threads? Say something nice threads? Let's talk about super fun stuff in a civil manner threads?

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Originally Posted by Laeore

and the idea that Americans culture is somehow different and fostering of crappy behavior is insulting.

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You're right that every culture has counter-cultures (and individual asses), but American culture in particular has some beliefs/traits that make us come off as asses when we're just carrying out business as usual. We don't purposefully act impatient, and we don't purposefully say things too bluntly, but we don't realize we're offending people, and some don't realize it's unintentional.

Just some examples--when we say a meeting's is at 12:00, it's generally expected that everyone be in the room before 12:00. Not everyone thinks that way (not even in America, tbh, but most of us do). At least where I work (which is an international department), when people get frustrated about that discrepancy, that's where a lot of our "impatient, demanding reputation" comes from.

Likewise, when people in the US speak, we say what we mean in the clearest possible way. Some other cultures don't--some cultures, getting your point across is almost an art of hiding it within clever, indirect terms.

It's a matter of perspective--to us, others are being lazy, too relaxed, or not to-the-point. To them, we're impatient, in a hurry, and clumsy. You can fling insults at each other all you want, but it doesn't change either culture, or the fact that this thread was completely unnecessary. People are going to (re)act just like they always do.

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Originally Posted by Tule

No, you're a horrible person because you responded horribly. Instead of making a point you sarcastically insulted him. Not that I did much better, but at least I responded to someone who was only being sarcastically rude, and not someone trying to make the community better.

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Do you always personally insult people while telling them their use of sarcasm was insulting?

lol ask any waitress, customer service employee or cashier and see what they say of the majority of us americans

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Originally Posted by Laeore

Do you always personally insult people while telling them their use of sarcasm was insulting?

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You probably should have pointed that out before I did. Do you always aggressively reply?

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

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I did read the whole thing. But how do you expect someone to react when you try to generalize at first and then say you know many Americans who aren't like what the rest of the world seems to think we are like? You cant have it both ways. The point I intended to make and did a terrible job of it is generalizations are silly regardless of who is making them. Using the word ignorant was out of line as well. I'm sorry if I was offensive that was not the intent. Truth be told there is a good amount of our culture and lack of REAL education of other cultures that I don't like. But you have to understand that I am proud to have been born and raised here and I will defend it. The same as I would expect anyone else to do with their country.

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Originally Posted by Sazhka

lol ask any waitress, customer service employee or cashier and see what they say of the majority of us americans

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I'd say the good outweigh the bad. But the few bad tend to be really bad. Usually a result of many small things going wrong and your minor mistake being the last of a great deal of straws.
Most people will be quiet and polite. Blending into the the ebb and flow of the day. Not daring to add any more complexity to their lives just as busy as our own.

While we're at it, most people from other countries are probably too busy to mind where you're from. But because they're part of the expected good, we don't pay them as much mind. We grow paranoid of the wrong and see it all around us, not bothering to enjoy the peace that's already there.

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Originally Posted by Mychael

It's a matter of perspective--to us, others are being lazy, too relaxed, or not to-the-point. To them, we're impatient, in a hurry, and clumsy. You can fling insults at each other all you want, but it doesn't change either culture, or the fact that this thread was completely unnecessary. People are going to (re)act just like they always do.

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Well put. Culture is not absolute. It would benefit many to study cultural relativity to broaden perspectives.

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Originally Posted by Tule

You probably should have pointed that out before I did. Do you always aggressively reply?

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Where I come from its not aggressive, its direct. You should show a little tolerance!

You have to give respect to get respect. I'm not going to just be alright with someone acting like a huge turd "just 'cause."

Decency goes a long way.

Thanks for the post OP.
It's refreshing to see a post that isn't QQing or raging about one thing or another.
It's even more refreshing that your post wasn't one in which you demonstrate just how low certain members or parts of the community can be. Truly, the numerous posts on harassment and people rage quitting is downright disheartening.
I've said it before, the community is what we make of it.
People should always treat each other with respect. You don't have to be best friends with everyone, you just need to be respectful.

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Originally Posted by Xenogias

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I don't really care if you're proud of where you're born and feel the need to defend it. That's pretty irrelevant. The international community doesn't hold such an opinion without some basis in truth. Every nation has good and bad, but when your nation has a reputation for flat out ignorance, self-entitlement, and an impetuous view of those that aren't part of your nation, something is wrong. And you already restated what I stated about the education system, which is a joke in itself, but that's too far off topic and delves more into social stratification, etc.

After all, you don't really hear Europeans bitching at people for not speaking *insert language* in this game when someone speaks their native language just because they can't understand it.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

when your nation has a reputation for flat out ignorance, self-entitlement, and an impetuous view of those that aren't part of your nation, something is wrong.

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Statements like that only just parrots the opinions of over exaggerated satire and sensationalism stemming from ignorance and paranoia.

I don't control what other people think of me and my nation. I live my life as I see fit. If others have an issue with that, it's on them and I have no reason to change for people who already hate me. Now there is certainly something to be said about socially acceptable behavior and being able to tactfully represent yourself to avoid unnecessary drama and conflict, but those that feed on judgement and prejudice based on cherry picking stereotypes? I don't need them to like me.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

After all, you don't really hear Europeans bitching at people for not speaking *insert language* in this game when someone speaks their native language just because they can't understand it.

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Nor did I ever hear Americans or Canadians complaining about that either.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Statements like that only just parrots the opinions of over exaggerated satire and sensationalism stemming from ignorance and paranoia.

I don't control what other people think of me and my nation. I live my life as I see fit. If others have an issue with that, it's on them and I have no reason to change for people who already hate me. Now there is certainly something to be said about socially acceptable behavior and being able to tactfully represent yourself to avoid unnecessary drama and conflict, but those that feed on judgement and prejudice based on cherry picking stereotypes? I don't need them to like me.

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Again, my opinions are formed based on my experiences/interactions. Not satire/sensationalism/paranoia. In fact, I'm not even sure what I would need to be paranoid about.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

Again, my opinions are formed based on my experiences/interactions.

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Personal experiences are often clouded by preconceived notions. That's just human nature. A defense mechanism.

The paranoia is the expectation that some will behave in such a detracting way, so you focus in on anything resembling it. Allowing it to grow and fester. That's how bigotry works. It's how prejudice is formed.
It happens to all of us. Like expecting a jock to be dumb or a nerd to watch anime. We fuel these preconceived notions by pointing out where we see it most and ignoring all the instances where it isn't true.

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Originally Posted by DubstepNinja

Who is John Galt?

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We are.

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Originally Posted by Soldowner

No long paragraphs this time, so I'll keep it short.

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Dear Final Fantasy 14 Community,

Who is John Galt?

Politeness costs nothing and once you except that there will be people that are better and worse then you there is no reason for some of the pure abuse I've seen on both the forums and in game. From my experience this type of attitude is certainly more prevelant on the internet then in the real world. It seems that as soon as there is anonymity people feel they can be rude and abusive with little or no consequences for their actions

Unfortunately things like "treat people like you would like to be treated" and "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" seem to have been missed by a section of society........

Respect is earned, not something that is instantly given. Now this thing that a lot of people have seemed to have forgotten is something called Common Decency. The golden rule. Do unto others as you would have done unto you. I believe it is no longer taught, and in a society where we are used to getting what we want, when we want, not learning it becomes a detriment to us all. Stereotypes have a basis in truth but to judge an entire continent on those things? Yeah we're all 400 lb, rifle toting freaks on this side of the pond thanks! It is insulting and degrading to those of us who actually try to live our lives based off some moral codes.