I'm afraid to queue for dungeons now.

I started off as a gladiator and tanked for all the dungeons in the storyline from 15-50, from Sastasha to the Praetorium. I did a relatively good job, almost never losing aggro on any enemy. Not a perfect job, but enough to make the healer's life a little easier, only having to worry about healing me instead of themselves or the rest of the group. After finishing the main story, I decided I wanted to change to pugilist and try out DPS and see all the dungeons from a different view.

I am now a level 36 Monk, and am currently running Brayflox's Longstop and Sunken Temple of Qarn, and the vast majority of those runs ended in failure because the tank can't follow instructions or do their job properly. Now my first assumption when queueing for dungeons as DPS is that we're not going to finish it because the tank can't tank or that they'll do something really stupid, like ask the DPS to offtank for them. Seriously, that's what one tank asked me to do. As a gladiator/paladin, I've never had to ask the DPS to offtank an enemy for me. EVER.

Curious how many of those tanks you've dealt with are Fate leveling. Fates are the breeding grounds for terrible players sadly. I would imagine anyone tanking by that level would not be "new" of course. Though, some people just don't make terribly good tanks either I suppose. I point my finger more towards Fates though myself. :)

I've had similar experience, as a tank I've cleared all the leveling instances and 30+ AKs without a single group falling apart. As DPS it's 50/50 that the run will be a fail.

ugh tell me about it

since my 2nd class is a damage dealer i already have to wait a long while in the queue... but half of the time i'm grouped with a gladiator who has no idea what they're doing

i was in copperbell for like 40 minutes because of a bad tank and i didn't even get to finish because he d/ced!

Been tanking since level one (technically not but you get my point) and feel like I can do a really good job. However I tanked Sunken Temple of Qarn for the first time yesterday, my god it was a painful experience even though I had my pocket healer friend. We have two DPS (Monk and Dragoon) who never said a word throughout the run, they seemed to be able to follow the marks I put down however when it came to those bee mobs with the instant kill ability...I tried to explain to them that final sting NEEDED to be stopped somehow, either by stunning or interrupting but they did nothing of the kind. This was even more fun on the doom boss as I was forced to tank the bees that spawned, despite them being relatively easy to kill they both decided to only focus on the boss. Luckily my healer friend was dotting them up but I had to keep an eye on them for final sting and stun them myself, which costs a lot of TP and is not off the GCD...

TLDR: I like tanking but I hate having to deal with people who refuse to listen to tips or take advice. I will never queue as DPS on my own because too much in this game requires a tank with a brain, which many seem to leave checked at the 1017 door.

I first started as an archer intent on becoming a bard then went to paladin because I wanted a competent tank. Now the only time I die is when it's a dps race and the DD are derps (titan) or the healer some how ends up getting themselves killed despite my best efforts, (titan again, Brayfox- Poison dragon, qarn- doom) there are derp players in every class.

I had a really bad tank in Brayflox last night. He was a warrior who thought that tomohawk was how warriors got hate, on the last boss he only had 2 jobs stay near my fairy so me and it could chain heal together and keep hate. Well after 7 failed attempts bc neither of those things were things he could do i just walked away. FATE parties are producing really bad tanks.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRains

We have two DPS (Monk and Dragoon) who never said a word throughout the run, they seemed to be able to follow the marks I put down however when it came to those bee mobs with the instant kill ability...I tried to explain to them that final sting NEEDED to be stopped somehow, either by stunning or interrupting but they did nothing of the kind.

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Bees have to die first. Can't interrupt the final sting. Either the bees die or you do

That's why I rolled tank and my brother is a healer :)

To make my life easier, I had to start "marking" enemies. I said to the group, "ok, I'm gonna mark enemies, can you attack that?" Because I could hold aggro but DPS were attacking multiple enemies and so I would lose aggro, from time to time. MAde it easier but damn... PS3 targeting sucks.

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I had a really bad tank in Brayflox last night. He was a warrior who thought that tomohawk was how warriors got hate, on the last boss he only had 2 jobs stay near my fairy so me and it could chain heal together and keep hate. Well after 7 failed attempts bc neither of those things were things he could do i just walked away. FATE parties are producing really bad tanks.

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Warriors do get hate through tomahawk. It's what I always start off with.. tomahawk to pull, overpower, sunder, sunder, overpower etc. That way, the enemies are glued on me.

Weird. I've grinded my way to 47 Via Fates/doing story when I get 5-8 levels above where I last was.... My FC considers me the best war tank we have, I don't think it's FATES at fault, just players who don't bother to learn their class a little bit while doing all those fates. (Our other WARs have done it via story and quests-- Im still considered a stronger dungeon runner then them.)

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

Bees have to die first. Can't interrupt the final sting. Either the bees die or you do

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So when I stunned them interrupting the ability and didn't die, I just imagined it?

A lot of tanking comes down to experience, e.g. knowing how to turn mobs away from the party, knowing how to move and keep aggro, avoid AoEs, etc. Which of these skills do you employ in a FATE? Oh, right - none of them. It's not that FATEs make you a bad tank; they simply allow you to level up without ever having to learn how to do anything - and that goes for all classes, not just tanks. Viva la zergfest!

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Originally Posted by CaptainRains

TLDR: I like tanking but I hate having to deal with people who refuse to listen to tips or take advice.

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

Bees have to die first. Can't interrupt the final sting. Either the bees die or you do

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Originally Posted by CaptainRains

So when I stunned them interrupting the ability and didn't die, I just imagined it?

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Hate ppl who refuse to listen to tips or take advice huh? Apparently what you meant to so is: I hate having to deal with anyone who isn't me who refuses to listen to tips or take advice.

And the beat goes on.

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Originally Posted by ntall1

Hate ppl who refuse to listen to tips or take advice huh? Apparently what you meant to so is: I hate having to deal with anyone who isn't me who refuses to listen to tips or take advice.

And the beat goes on.

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Wow rage much? I was simply saying that I was able to stun the bees ergo...it interrupts the sting? Crawl back under your bridge and stop fishing little man.

P.S. I already stated that the bees should die first so it's not really advice telling me what I already know.

Im a good tank id like to think i do the very best i can at my job unless someone jumps ahead or i havent done the fight then i just learn from my mistakes and try again. I primarily do my story and get the gear if its beneficial to me stat wise. I only use FATE grinding when my quest come to a halt due to lvl req

I've played tank roles in MMO's for going on 10+ Years. Everquest as a warrior tank clearing all content when it was still considered an achievement to kill something onto WoW as a pally Tank. You're going to run into people who role tanks because of the fast queues, easy group pickups not because they enjoy the class.

Dungeon Finders, Queues, etc has been a downfall of the tank class for this reason. I had at least a handful of groups asking me to tank for them the second I logged on because I had proven myself to countless people that I was good tank. By no means the best but a good solid tank. It was personal, good tanks had groups waiting (same with healers of course), bad tanks couldn't get a group to save their life.
My point is, when you find a tank that's a good tank. Friend them. Ask them, would you be open to me messaging you from time to time to put a group together. If you want to stop taking chances of fail tanks, remember the good ones and make a friend.

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Originally Posted by Oriachim

PS3 targeting sucks.

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I also had problems with ps3 targeting, until I found out this awesome tip...

Hold R2/L2 to ready your crossbar abilities, and then tap R1/L1 to toggle through enemies. This saved me Soooooo much grief, as it will never ever target pikachu! In hectic situation, it will ocasionally target a wrong mob, because your toon will be facing an odd direction. However, it is way way better than relying on the X button alone to try to target whats in front of you, and makes target switching in dungeons a breeze.

I just used directional buttons on ps3. Right/Left buttons for choosing mobs, Up/Down buttons for party members.

When you have time to tab through all mobs/pets etc. that method works. We are discussing tanking, however. Reaction time is key, since most players who pull agro will instantly run AWAY from their tank.

My first dungeon when I got scholar unlocked, haukke manor, our tank was great..... at single targets, but with more than 1 mob, my fairy become the tank for the 2 adds and the tank just tunneled the one other mob.

I chalked it up to just unlucky, until the next 5 dungeons I ran. Every one the fairy ended up tanking adds. I just went through all these dungeons as a tank and I know the fairies do not pull that much agro, hell they give you a bunch of extra time because they don't start healing until 70%.

Finally got a good tank in qarn earlier today though but with the odds of 1/6 im debating on just giving the tank until the first boss, if he sucks im going afk until someone else leaves so I don't get lockout.

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Originally Posted by Brumble

When you have time to tab through all mobs/pets etc. that method works. We are discussing tanking, however. Reaction time is key, since most players who pull agro will instantly run AWAY from their tank.

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You can activate a filter function with L1 + buttons
Triangle is for all
O is enemies (although it still targets npc and pets annoyingly, please fix SE)
X is er party members I think, good for healers
Square is friends, I customed mine to items only for DoL farming.

Wow, so I'm not the only one with this problem huh? I really love doing dungeons, and when I tanked, I think I did a decent job. I had seen a few tanks that were obviously new, but I had just as many good tanks. Then my husband and I started doing Brayflox...Wow, I don't even know what happened. I ran Brayflox multiple times and I had one good tank. The rest? Its almost as if they don't understand that they need to keep hate on ALL mobs instead of just one, they will ALWAYS focus on one mob. Everyone is getting hit, my fairy is constantly dying, its just a mess.

Even with these terrible tanks, I can usually keep people alive and finish the run. In the first 3 dungeons I'll be a little more forgiving, people are still learning...but by Brayflox and Qarn you should know how to tank. Whenever I get one of these tanks who is completely clueless (which is pretty much every time now) I wonder if they just spent all their time doing fates, never really learning their role. Of course there are plenty of tanks who leveled with fates that know what they're doing.

Try teaching them, This is what we do in amdapor keep. ( I run with a healer we queue together).

first pull of the dungeon, tank pulls, I pop my enmity reducer and pull aggro on the second ability I use. Healer throws me a quick heal to keep me up pulls the second mob and the summoned mob instantly. We wipe do it again this time i wait and dont pull. The second the healer heals he pulls and we wipe again. So we start with.. "Sorry man, we didn't realize this was your first time tanking. What you want to do is throw your shield at the first mob, then hit both of them with flash... this will generate enmity or aggro as you may know it from wow" around this time they either rage quit, start flaming us, or apologize. Most of the time we can simply say... that other tanks are able to do this just fine and they accept it and do their job or let us get a real tank.

Its sad but the world of MMOs has been ruined by WoW and everyone now feels entitled.

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Originally Posted by Tyvek

I had a really bad tank in Brayflox last night. He was a warrior who thought that tomohawk was how warriors got hate, on the last boss he only had 2 jobs stay near my fairy so me and it could chain heal together and keep hate. Well after 7 failed attempts bc neither of those things were things he could do i just walked away. FATE parties are producing really bad tanks.

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Brayflox is the reason I've started leveling a tank class. I've tried 3 times now to get thru it as SCH and all failed. One we couldn't even get to the boss. The other two the tanks just could not keep the boss out of the poison or wouldn't move out of its breath attack.

So I finally said screw it. If I want to be thru this part of the story I apparently need to do it myself. So I'm concurrently leveling MRD and GLA right now. Figure I'll take both up so I have situational options.

I have had to tell numerous tanks how to hold aggro on multiple targets. It may seem like common sense to people that have played tanks in other games, but not to everyone else. Remember that. We shouldn't have to technically tell people how to tank, but if you see a pattern, let them know. They will either start doing it or give you insults. If they give you insults just leave. Make things easier and less stress. Just sucks if you are the dps and don't roll with a healer. Sadly this is just how most group finders work. This game is a bit better than most. Just try to be friendly from the start and it usually turns out okay.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

Brayflox is the reason I've started leveling a tank class. I've tried 3 times now to get thru it as SCH and all failed. One we couldn't even get to the boss. The other two the tanks just could not keep the boss out of the poison or wouldn't move out of its breath attack.

So I finally said screw it. If I want to be thru this part of the story I apparently need to do it myself. So I'm concurrently leveling MRD and GLA right now. Figure I'll take both up so I have situational options.

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Just so you know, as a tank who HATED BRAY(after running the entire thing perfect.... ) I would run 3-4 Lalafells out of the AoE indicator, move the boss around the wall and out of the poison... And still get smacked by the breath. In some cases, it's SEs servers fault, not the poor tank almost in tears from frustration. >_>

Brayflox is also a huge jump in difficulty compared to the other dungeons. When I tanked it, things were hitting twice as hards the other dungeons. Nothing I couldn't handle, but I was in pretty much the best gear I could get. I can see how other tanks would have problems, especially if they're only in white questing gear or are new to tanking.

I think Brayflox is the first dungeon for a tank to make or break them. I'm a SMN but I really feel for you tanks out there!

I am a monk now. I just beat grey flow it took 10 different parties the tanks could not get dragon out of green. Two even refused too. The others couldn't avoid the cone. The one the tank was amazing and the healer stunk. That dungeon u need a tank that's good or ure screwed.

If you guys are having tanking problems in places like Copper, just wait until you get to places like Qarn's and Aurum Vale. Even a good tank can have a tough time, hope to high horses you don't get a BAD one :P

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Originally Posted by CaptainRains

Wow rage much? I was simply saying that I was able to stun the bees ergo...it interrupts the sting? Crawl back under your bridge and stop fishing little man.

P.S. I already stated that the bees should die first so it's not really advice telling me what I already know.

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Dude, you are right, you can interrupt "final sting". Perhaps because they start it over again, people think that it wasn't interrupted.

But, back to you original point, your DPS should have been able to kill the bees, before they even had a chance to cast it. Sometimes you are going to have to stop it, but should have not had to do it a lot.

Tanking seems to be pretty hard in this game, so keep up the good work.