Lancer abilities questions

Hey Lancers forums! Been meaning to make a thread but never got around to it till today.

So just hit Rank 27 on my Lancer recently and starting to look around at skills and see how useful or not they are for lancer.

Currently my set up is something like;
Light Thrust | Feint | Moonrise | Skewer II/Doomspike | Provoke/Legsweep/Bloodbath | Ferocity
Cure | Sacrifice | Shockspikes | Invigorate | Comrade in Arms | Speed surge | Life surge

So I have a few questions

1. Even though Full Thrust says optimal 40 can I still get it at 30 and how effective is it at rank 30 even?

2. Cross class skills, are there any must have cross class skills I should be using?

3. What is our role supposed to be? Are we just here to be straight up damage dealers under Thm and Arc?

4. Also I noticed that compared to other DoW classes we have higher mp, does that hint that we should be using our mp for something? Maybe debuffing since we don't have the potency to really nuke or cure?

Well I guess this will only be relevant though until they decide to inform us what they will be doing to change all the classes around.

So thanks a bunch all!

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Originally Posted by IndecentSoul

Hey Lancers forums! Been meaning to make a thread but never got around to it till today.

So just hit Rank 27 on my Lancer recently and starting to look around at skills and see how useful or not they are for lancer.

Currently my set up is something like;
Light Thrust | Feint | Moonrise | Skewer II/Doomspike | Provoke/Legsweep/Bloodbath | Ferocity
Cure | Sacrifice | Shockspikes | Invigorate | Comrade in Arms | Speed surge | Life surge

So I have a few questions

1. Even though Full Thrust says optimal 40 can I still get it at 30 and how effective is it at rank 30 even?

2. Cross class skills, are there any must have cross class skills I should be using?

3. What is our role supposed to be? Are we just here to be straight up damage dealers under Thm and Arc?

4. Also I noticed that compared to other DoW classes we have higher mp, does that hint that we should be using our mp for something? Maybe debuffing since we don't have the potency to really nuke or cure?

Well I guess this will only be relevant though until they decide to inform us what they will be doing to change all the classes around.

So thanks a bunch all!

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Ide drop comrade in arms, that rarely works on NMs
Raging strike and cadence are good, blindside can help as well.
as for higher mp question, i use absorb attack and absorb acc from thm
Full thrust does less dmg than normal attack, but builds alot more tp, use it situationally of course. you can use it at lower ranks.

Thanks a lot for the quick reply!

In regards to Comrade in Arms is it a bug that it misses? I don't even see anything that says it has missed it simply takes stamina and throws it on cool down once in a while.

Once I hit 30 I plan to go ahead and zerg rush some levels to grab things like Cnj and Thm 20 and get Arc to 14 ect.

Also that is good to hear that I can go ahead and grab Full Thrust early then. Specially since my Archer friend I play with got Multi Shot recently and I feel really left out that I don't have anything cool yet. I have a strong feeling I am still going to be disappointed though with Full Thrust but oh well all I can do is keep playing and hope the class change update gives us something really cool.

Hold the phone on Comrade in Arms! That's without a doubt, one of the most useful skills Lancers can get, I would recommend keeping it over almost anything else.

While it can definitely be a bit difficult to land on a NM, (Not so much now, thanks to the +magic accuracy bonus from a full party) it's still worth trying, as the TP bonus is amazing, since you'll be getting so little TP from your normal attacks anyway. And if you use it against a normal enemy, your TP gain will go through the roof! Generally, you can expect 3 weapon skills for every 2 full thrusts. I've actually gone from 0 to 3000 TP in one full thrust, using Comrade in Arms II, and Invigorate II.

Also, as you could probably tell from me talking about it, Full Thrust is an extremely important skill: I'd recommend completely replacing light thrust with it, in fact. A Lancer's strength lies in their ability to quickly spam TP-effecting skills, like Moonrise, which reduces the enemy's TP gain, or Twisting Vice, which completely burns away an enemy's stored up TP. In a party, you shouldn't worry as much about damage (Though you'll definitely be out damaging most classes like this!) as much as you should worry about stopping the enemy from using its special skills.

Also, regarding the MP thing, you've got me. Perhaps you could go and try learning the Accuracy and TP drain skills from Thaumaturge to make use of that? It's strange how Lancer has such high MP, yet no skills that actually use MP.

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Originally Posted by Montjuleant

A Lancer's strength lies in their ability to quickly spam TP-effecting skills, like Moonrise, which reduces the enemy's TP gain, or Twisting Vice, which completely burns away an enemy's stored up TP. In a party, you shouldn't worry as much about damage (Though you'll definitely be out damaging most classes like this!) as much as you should worry about stopping the enemy from using its special skills.

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1000x this ^^

No pestie breath! No moles digging underground!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montjuleant

Hold the phone on Comrade in Arms! That's without a doubt, one of the most useful skills Lancers can get, I would recommend keeping it over almost anything else.

While it can definitely be a bit difficult to land on a NM, (Not so much now, thanks to the +magic accuracy bonus from a full party) it's still worth trying, as the TP bonus is amazing, since you'll be getting so little TP from your normal attacks anyway. And if you use it against a normal enemy, your TP gain will go through the roof! Generally, you can expect 3 weapon skills for every 2 full thrusts. I've actually gone from 0 to 3000 TP in one full thrust, using Comrade in Arms II, and Invigorate II.

Also, as you could probably tell from me talking about it, Full Thrust is an extremely important skill: I'd recommend completely replacing light thrust with it, in fact. A Lancer's strength lies in their ability to quickly spam TP-effecting skills, like Moonrise, which reduces the enemy's TP gain, or Twisting Vice, which completely burns away an enemy's stored up TP. In a party, you shouldn't worry as much about damage (Though you'll definitely be out damaging most classes like this!) as much as you should worry about stopping the enemy from using its special skills.

Also, regarding the MP thing, you've got me. Perhaps you could go and try learning the Accuracy and TP drain skills from Thaumaturge to make use of that? It's strange how Lancer has such high MP, yet no skills that actually use MP.

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Wow thanks for that awesome reply! Hmm I think I might try going and building Piety into my lancer build then and experiment with a hybrid TP annihilation build. Now I just need to Rank up Lancer a lot more and get some THM levels.

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Originally Posted by IndecentSoul

2. Cross class skills, are there any must have cross class skills I should be using?

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For
Archer 14:
Raging Strike (power up att) and Hawk's Eye (acc).
Though both ability is 1hit but still can be useful. like above said.

Gladiator 14:
Still Precision(acc) and "Rampart" (def up. Not really but can be useful)
Good to have a acc buff ability all the time with timelimit.

Marauder:Skull Sunder and Foresight+Fracture (counter with whenever parry)
Skull sunder can be useful more then trammel. You get better chance to get parry and counter! So why not.

Pugilist20: Second Wind+Prime Conditioning and Featherfoot and Jarring Strike.
heal ability from tp (though 10% is not lot but still good)! Always good to have a evade ability and counter as much as you can whenever Evade.

Conjurer16: cure and protect and shell and shock spiked.
Good for solo. though if you have a healer in pt those ability is not need. expcet cure just in case

Thaumaturge 20: Sacrifice II and Punishing Barbs (depend) and absorb acc (depend) and att (depend) and Dark Seal (depend) and Blood Rite (Depend).
Heal+regen why not :D. Punishing barbs is not bad a bit extra damage from when you know you going to get hit from mob.
If you going to use absorb spell better equip dark seal and blood rite and some magic acc+ gear like Nighthawk Visor, 4x darksilver ring or 3xring + Silver choker. Also Muscle Memory II or Asceticism II if you dont mind lose a bit str or vit.

Notice
So far I have try it on mob with 10-13lvl higher then me without dark seal and blood rite and muscle memory and asceticism and with 2x darksilver ring only. Seem land spell quite well. Didnt try on Big nm like dodore or baffulo or uriforgotname yet though will do when I fight it them next time.

That is all i can think so far.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sawamura

For
Archer 14:
Raging Strike (power up att) and Hawk's Eye (acc).
Though both ability is 1hit but still can be useful. like above said.

Gladiator 14:
Still Precision(acc) and "Rampart" (def up. Not really but can be useful)
Good to have a acc buff ability all the time with timelimit.

Marauder:Skull Sunder and Foresight+Fracture (counter with whenever parry)
Skull sunder can be useful more then trammel. You get better chance to get parry and counter! So why not.

Pugilist20: Second Wind+Prime Conditioning and Featherfoot and Jarring Strike.
heal ability from tp (though 10% is not lot but still good)! Always good to have a evade ability and counter as much as you can whenever Evade.

Conjurer16: cure and protect and shell and shock spiked.
Good for solo. though if you have a healer in pt those ability is not need. expcet cure just in case

Thaumaturge 20: Sacrifice II and Punishing Barbs (depend) and absorb acc (depend) and att (depend) and Dark Seal (depend) and Blood Rite (Depend).
Heal+regen why not :D. Punishing barbs is not bad a bit extra damage from when you know you going to get hit from mob.
If you going to use absorb spell better equip dark seal and blood rite and some magic acc+ gear like Nighthawk Visor, 4x darksilver ring or 3xring + Silver choker. Also Muscle Memory II or Asceticism II if you dont mind lose a bit str or vit.

Notice
So far I have try it on mob with 10-13lvl higher then me without dark seal and blood rite and muscle memory and asceticism and with 2x darksilver ring only. Seem land spell quite well. Didnt try on Big nm like dodore or baffulo or uriforgotname yet though will do when I fight it them next time.

That is all i can think so far.

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For Archer there are other skills besides Raging Strike + Hawk's Eye that can prove beneficial.
Firstly, the rank 30 ability trait which applies -10 to Enmity, Chameleon which wipes your accrued Enmity, or Quelling Shot/Subtle Release, one decreases enmity generated from an attack, the other has a chance to cause no change in the mobs enmity. Archer also has one of the better cross-class weaponskills in the game at the moment with Bloodletter @ 48.

Gladiator gets Tempered Will @ 46 which is a great ability for melee as it removes Bind & Heavy.

Marauder gets Barbaric Yawp @ 34... who doesn't want a spell interrupt? Disorient is also a great ability to get, it reduces the target's evasion although it increases emnity (good if you have Archer's "Out of Sight" for -10 to enmity.)

And for Pugilist, who could forget Blindside? Great ability for ATT+ from behind a mob.

just an edit: not pickin' on the guy I quoted, just did so to keep all the info + my additions together.

However the problem with those ability is take quite lot of time. And if you want to get those ability, just say get all class to 50 instead. And we wouldnt able to equip all skill anyways but is not a bad idea to have such ability too.
What you equip is you own idea and style.

Lancer is a TP machine. I rarely use anything other than Full Strike now (Heavy Strike on mobs you don't want to feed TP to like Chigoes and Pierce if I an soloing leves). If you engage (under Speed Surge) with FS you'll have 500+ TP in two hits, land Comrade in Arms and in about 6 or 7 hits you'll have 2000TP. Hit Moonrise > Skull Sunder > Heavy Trammel and if all three land the mob should be just about done for. If not, rinse and repeat.

The main frustration with LNC is your stamina can't keep up with your TP bar!

Just one note about Comrade in Arms... watch your stamina bar before activating it. Ive found that the misses happen when theres not enough stamina for it to activate within a certain time. Others can test this and verify. Once a certain time passes the effect becomes a (miss). Have no fear however, since the recast timer on it is so short it will hardly be a factor.