Warrior / Marauder DPS definitely viable

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxMxL...ature=youtu.be

had some 5 minute geruda kills and decided to fraps it and show some scenes of the warrior / marauder potential of dps. check it out, the end displays potential dps and skill rotations too.

I was parsing around 160-180 on Titan, dpsing as a marauder.

I use geruda axe and bravura axe

Wow, very interesting. Always cool seeing people pushing limits of the class. I assume Marauder was the higher option due to being able to pull Lancer/Archer dps cross class options.

I had a friend trying this but the major worry was simply threat - I guess if you arent running in defiance you can generally use a standard dps rotation that includes Skull Sunder and Butchers, as your video shows at the end. Is there a viable dps rotation that uses skills that don't have bonus enmity? (Storms path line interwoven with frac and other crossclass skills?)

I have been running warrior DPS too with friends. The instances didn't seem to go any slower. Nice to see I wasn't insane for doing it!

P.S.: I just noticed who posted above me, yes I am that friend!

What DPS are the "DPS" Classes able to get? I mean if you are getting 170 dps but other dps classes are in the 250-300 range, you are still doing bad dps ( My guess would they do around 170-200 ) But if you could show something to compare to that would be nice to see.

Derza, having a second tank there ready to pick up the boss if the first one dies and able to pull out 170 DPS is rather amazing and very nice to have.

I'm not saying its a bad thing at all.. I just wanted some comparison... oh and marauder won't be able to tank if the other tank dies in those fights. Having the comparison and if they are very close I could queue as a marauder for 8 mans that only 1 tank is needed... and have some facts to back up my viability but i would need to have something to compare to. Would also be nice if after comparing you find out other DPS only pulls 150 dps :) but that is not likely heh.

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Originally Posted by Derza

What DPS are the "DPS" Classes able to get? I mean if you are getting 170 dps but other dps classes are in the 250-300 range, you are still doing bad dps ( My guess would they do around 170-200 ) But if you could show something to compare to that would be nice to see.

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top dps pre-relic weapons the BEST players do around 170-185, MOST players do around 140-160, anyone around 150 is a really good find for titan

I was going to say most palyers around the 150 to 190 range depending on the gear they have.

I've been thinking about this too.

The thing is, MRD would have significantly more DPS due to access to Blood for Blood and Raging Strike. But unfortunately it's only available in darklight and allegan (or crafted) gear.

Also you wouldn't have access to your Relic weapon either.

But those cooldowns would probably more than compensate for the lack of the relic weapon. Kind of bums me out that we'd still not have access to the Darksteel Haubergon or Darklight Haubergeon either as well though.

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Originally Posted by Derza

I'm not saying its a bad thing at all.. I just wanted some comparison... oh and marauder won't be able to tank if the other tank dies in those fights. Having the comparison and if they are very close I could queue as a marauder for 8 mans that only 1 tank is needed... and have some facts to back up my viability but i would need to have something to compare to. Would also be nice if after comparing you find out other DPS only pulls 150 dps :) but that is not likely heh.

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They actually would be able to pick up the boss, but they wouldn't be able to tank for nearly as long and would probably die. You will still be in Heavy Darksteel/Darklight armor, so you will have the Parry rating, Armor value, and a decent amount of Vit. But if you're a MRD you won't be able to swap over to Defiance so you would be down a significant amount of HP and no HP buff and limited self heals.

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Originally Posted by Anilogas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxMxL...ature=youtu.be

had some 5 minute geruda kills and decided to fraps it and show some scenes of the warrior / marauder potential of dps. check it out, the end displays potential dps and skill rotations too.

I was parsing around 160-180 on Titan, dpsing as a marauder.

I use geruda axe and bravura axe

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Oh btw, what parser do you use? I found one but I can't get it to work.

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Originally Posted by Griffeth

Derza, having a second tank there ready to pick up the boss if the first one dies and able to pull out 170 DPS is rather amazing and very nice to have.

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You can't do 170 DPS in a setup that's also capable of serving as secondary tank. Notice in the video that the guy has like 4k HP. He'll also be unable to wear endgame tanking gear because it requires you to be WAR or PLD, and he won't be able to hold aggro at all due to being marauder instead of warrior. It's basically like a WoW fury warrior; you could taunt the mob and maybe last a few hits, but you opt out of being a tank when you build for real DPS. If you want to remain capable of tanking reasonably, you won't do more than maybe 100-120 DPS.

They really need to cut the foreplay and just make Warriors able to DPS all the way out...drop the tanking aspect, because it seems like too much of a hassle to rework the entire game to accommodate Warrior tanking.

warrior tanking is fine if they buff increased healing to 10-15% without stacks, and 25-30% with stacks or something like that

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Originally Posted by Gray_Spy

They really need to cut the foreplay and just make Warriors able to DPS all the way out...drop the tanking aspect, because it seems like too much of a hassle to rework the entire game to accommodate Warrior tanking.

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As I explained in another thread that interestingly enough was about how Warriors should be better at tanking, Warriors are a cross-over class. While it seems dumb now, they are meant to be decent at both tanking and dpsing but not great at either. one or two patches from now their role will be to fill raid spots where you need a secondary tank on boss 1, but more DPS on boss 2. Without a class like warrior you'd have to swap people out of the raid to complete it.

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Originally Posted by Anilogas

warrior tanking is fine if they buff increased healing to 10-15% without stacks, and 25-30% with stacks or something like that

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The main problem for this is let's say warrior and paladin have the same tanking effectiveness, but warrior's damage output is a lot higher than paladin's, then why would any group take a paladin in?

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Originally Posted by dragonblade369

The main problem for this is let's say warrior and paladin have the same tanking effectiveness, but warrior's damage output is a lot higher than paladin's, then why would any group take a paladin in?

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Maybe rebalance the damage aspect when Defiance is on?

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Originally Posted by Xariann

Maybe rebalance the damage aspect when Defiance is on?

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This I would not mind. If they really focused on reworking defiance, and made its real defensive skills shine through with wrath (replace steel cyclone with a good defensive skill, for example), it could end up working really well. Make Warrior a functional bulky DPS/offensive tank with Defiance off, but once it's on, Warrior can go full tank with the best of them. Perhaps throw a cooldown on the stance change. You get the ability to do both functions, but not at the same time.

It would require a fair bit of effort, essentially retooling the job's mechanics, but it would be worth it. I've only done one 8 man dungeon so far, but I felt kind of left out outside of the boss fights, when I was finally given the job of tanking adds when they popped up. It would give us something to do when we're not needed to tank the trash, or against bosses that don't have minions/minions that require tanking.

Perhaps make the skills while using defiance focus on damage mitigation through debuffing enemy attacks, to keep the focus on 'aggressive' oriented tanking (breaking bones and concussive blows to lower enemy effectiveness, etc.), while non-defiance warrior play would focus on the current standard of piss-poor damage mitigation in favour of hitting hard in order to recover hard, but with a stronger focus on offense than on tanking, with the only real tanking factors without defiance being the class's natural bulkiness and enmity generation. It would be sufficient for handling trash mobs, some adds, and DPS contribution, but wouldn't be effective for dedicated tanking.

There would still be the issue of balancing the disparity of the Warrior's versatility and utility with the Paladin, but by being forced to choose between damage and tanking, the job of balancing will at least be easier.

If you just want to DPS as a warrior, do you have to unequip the soul or is it sufficient to just cancel defiance? Also, your dps was 170-180, is that any good compared to pures? e.g. blms bards etc...

The problem with warriors is that our primary class (MAR) is also a tank...

DPS classes should be over 250 w/relic and easily over 200 with primal weapon.

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Originally Posted by Churchill

DPS classes should be over 250 w/relic and easily over 200 with primal weapon.

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Should be? Do you have any data backing this or are you just assuming based off the amount he was able to do as warrior/marauder?

churchill is smoking some dope if he thinks easily over 200 with a primal weapon. any dps class rolling numbers above 180 with a primal is extremely good. typically you'll see most dps classes parse around 140-165ish, and thats ok for most fights until turn 4 in coil, where you need 200+

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Originally Posted by Derza

Should be? Do you have any data backing this or are you just assuming based off the amount he was able to do as warrior/marauder?

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What data would you like? The first thing you need to understand is it is very difficult to get an accurate DPS statistic from any of the parsers. However, if you reset it prior to anyone engaging and only let it run for the duration of the fight (single, boss fight) it's not going to be too far off outside of its DoT estimation and tracking. If you want to get more accurate, you can account for total damage done yourself and do the math after figuring out the total time in combat (via recording, stream, etc). Also understand that fights like Primals cause people to take a hit on DPS (somewhat) due to jumps but fights like Garuda (adds) can boost numbers in addition to the fact that you are using CD buffs more often. Amdapor Keep is a pretty low stress dungeon to practice rotations in and like I said before, Primal Weapons can easily be over 200 for each of those boss fights.

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Originally Posted by Anilogas

churchill is smoking some dope if he thinks easily over 200 with a primal weapon. any dps class rolling numbers above 180 with a primal is extremely good. typically you'll see most dps classes parse around 140-165ish, and thats ok for most fights until turn 4 in coil, where you need 200+

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Completely not true and horrible misuse of adjectives.

After having played warrior on most MMO games it came to me as a shock that warrior was a tank only job.
I leveled Marauder on beta and found out I would end up as tank, I don't mind tanking though but I'd rather dps. So on the early acces i went lancer since it was as close as I could get to a warrior dps. I still hope they might add a dps option for warriors or when they add the new jobs like ninjas and the samurai, who would bw the warrior epe we all want.

My group's parser records over 200 for highly geared DPS, a bit less for lesser geared. This is accurate according to my calculations of my personal damage/time + proc damages + Raging Strikes + Swift Cast - minor cooldown phase on my BLM, so I trust the data. I personally get around 240 as a relatively highly geared (currently) non-relic user, and when I'm hitting for near 600 damage every 2.5 seconds there's no way I'm getting too much lower than 200 even in fights I have to occasionally dodge.

However, one of our group members has a parser that records wildly lower numbers, almost half. Some parsers or timings are just plain off.

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Originally Posted by Furio

If you just want to DPS as a warrior, do you have to unequip the soul or is it sufficient to just cancel defiance? Also, your dps was 170-180, is that any good compared to pures? e.g. blms bards etc...

The problem with warriors is that our primary class (MAR) is also a tank...

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Are you familiar with cross class skills? If you unequip your warrior soul you can use up to 10 skills from any class. That means that you can use DPS skills that help you. As to how it compares to the pures, he mentions it in the thread.

Extremely curious on more results about this.

I really don't care much for any of the current DPS and if the MRD can put out the same if not very close to the same numbers I will probably just roll with them as my next class. Any other people able to replicate the same results?

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Originally Posted by Kryzen

Extremely curious on more results about this.

I really don't care much for any of the current DPS and if the MRD can put out the same if not very close to the same numbers I will probably just roll with them as my next class. Any other people able to replicate the same results?

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Early on you will do decently, just a step below actual damage classes but not that far. As soon as they start to get gear you will drastically fall off, and are really not viable. I have not tried it as a Marauder with the full set damage cross-class cooldowns yet though.

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Originally Posted by Kryzen

Extremely curious on more results about this.

I really don't care much for any of the current DPS and if the MRD can put out the same if not very close to the same numbers I will probably just roll with them as my next class. Any other people able to replicate the same results?

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main problem is , marauders cannot use ilvl 90 mythology gear, and the relic weapon. you are stuck using garuda / titan weapon and thus you get outgeared / outclassed. pre-relics, my marauder did very similar dps to other melee dps classes; however, now, he is just severely undergeared due to darklight being terrible for dps (im stuck using level 60 gear from AK)

if you can fully gear out from bahamuts coil though, i am 100% sure our dps as a marauder will be equal (OR better) to other dps classes as well.

i wonder. all the gear for AF2 DOW atleast the chest piece all give the same str, which increases attack power. even for the paladin and warrior you could see they all give +29 str. Also i noticed the attack potency for the class skills of the melee DPS( monk, dragoon) bootshine for monk(13- potency), true strike for monk(150 potency), true thrust for dragoon(150 potency). Compared to warrior basic combo; heavy strike( 150 potency), Skull sunder combo (200), and butchers block combo (280) all lay within the same range as the other melee. The only difference I see is what warriors decide to spread their stat points across( str or vit) that determines their capability. To top it off the damage on the relic weapons of all the melee class are the same, basic and +1.

Has anyone tried this out lately? Are we still doing comparable DPS?

I was doing speed runs of The Praetorium last night and was doing about 140 DPS, with a a DPS set and my Grand company weapon. I could see with better gear doing more but I think pure DPS will still do more. I've been thinking about trying Marauder and using more cross class skills.

Wouldn't that hurt your survivabilty?

Most of the 8 mans if done right can be 1 tanked. If the second tank has a DPS set that can be used when he doesnt need to tank and can do respectable damage then there is no reason not to use it if the main tank wont die. Im going to start building a set myself.

What would be our typical skill layout and rotation for a DPS warrior. Im guessing the high potancy combo with the maim and Storm's Eye debuff up?

The exact same rotation as when tanking. At the start of fights you usually want to use the maim combo a few times first otherwise you'll pull enmity.

That said don't expect much, you can do like 70% of the damage of a good DPS at most, and due to the innate disadvantages of being melee and also being threat capped, it's not good at all. Thread title is very misleading and was just trying to eyecatch for some youtube views.

Faction: It seems that warriors can do rather comparable DPS until classes start getting their relic weapons, as we will be stuck with either the Ifrit/Garuda weapons they will have Relic or Relic + 1 which will put us at a disadvantage.

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Originally Posted by Griffeth

Faction: It seems that warriors can do rather comparable DPS.

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Have you actually tried? You really can't. You can outdamage people in whites or people who don't know what they're doing, but equal gear it's~20% less than most non-melee DPS, even pre-relic, as I said. For example, perfect situation (IE: Target standing still and a short fight, like Demon Wall) an AK geared Bard with a Garuda bow does ~200-210DPS, while a Marauder in equal gear does 170-180. Usually the gap is larger, because melee has to move around a lot and loses more DPS time due to movement.

That said the difference really isn't so bad that you couldn't do it if you wanted to, but there's no real benefit to it. If you're going to spend your philo tomes on DPS gear then you might as well just level a lancer or bard instead.

I am pretty sure gladiator and marauder will eventually have DPS paths with their own endgame gear.

I don't play a gladiator but was a little disappointed to find out it could only really tank.

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Originally Posted by RitzNBitz

I am pretty sure gladiator and marauder will eventually have DPS paths with their own endgame gear.

I don't play a gladiator but was a little disappointed to find out it could only really tank.

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wait for the 2nd job for each class

its easy to add a dps job for MRD, but GLA on the other hand, need to have most of the skills revamped in order to have a dps job.