Why is SMN DPS so high?

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09-09-2013, 11:14 AM
Yenn

Why is SMN DPS so high?

Serious question. It seems to be the highest in the game right now.
With Amdapor Keep gear and relic weapon, I'm consistently pulling around 250 DPS on all primals. Other classes with similar gear are capping out around 160-180.

Should other classes maybe be brought up a bit, and SMN brought down a little? Unless AoE is required, there isn't much reason to not take 2 SMN + 2 BRD or 3 SMN + 1 BRD.

EDIT: Because this thread is a cesspool of retardation, I just spent 10 minutes at Coerthas, writing down the damage values. Criticals were omitted.
Ruin averaged 177.3 damage, 2.3 second cast
Bio + Bio II + Miasma averaged 260 damage, every 2 seconds (this included criticals).
Fester averaged 659.7 every 20 seconds
Garuda averaged 177.4 every 3 seconds

This totals 299.19 DPS. This is not including 10% crit rate, though some time is spent re-applying DoTs.

This is in line with what parsers are showing, accounting for time casts are interrupted to move, the bosses are invulnerable, and reapplying DoTs.
09-09-2013, 11:23 AM
Eristina

Hi,
I use a parser, but i can't fucking look in the details and understand my dps.
So i don't understand why i'm so high and mb there's something bugged.

But better post on forum :D ill be a star
09-09-2013, 11:31 AM
Rover1983

Wait.... huh? Summoner dps being high? Am I dreaming or is this a joke? Sorry but were currently lower tier dps. Others can disagree but most, if not all the other dps classes out dmg us currently. And no dont say bad player. Has to do with skills doing shit dmg, too long of a ramp up time to get our dmg going and lack of pet dmg.
09-09-2013, 11:39 AM
Astralis

Hmmm i dont have relic weapon and only have af armor. But im pretty sure i deal around 300+ dps

Summoners are the weakest among dps classes right now so pls stop trolling
09-09-2013, 11:43 AM
Eristina

The parser is bugged, it wasnt taking into account Bio I & II. Now it does but wrong amount. It count Both of them for 100+ dps, and it's wrong, they are at ~50 dps.
Pet is 50 dps.
SMN is 70-100 dps without bio taken into account.
So a smn dps is around 180, like every other dps class.

Read details and understand the game before claiming false shit.
09-09-2013, 11:58 AM
Yenn

Uh what? I added my damage break down, from the battle log and floating text, in the main post. This was tested on dummies on Coerthas.
09-09-2013, 12:57 PM
Kajuana

Nice to know that summoners aren't as bad as people say it is.

Not sure if it is highest dps, because we don't have proper parsers and we don't have other similar geared 50s writing down numbers on pen.
Easiest way to test is if we get same geared 50s to attack a dummy for 3 min. ;d
09-09-2013, 01:07 PM
LunarEmerald

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astralis

Hmmm i dont have relic weapon and only have af armor. But im pretty sure i deal around 300+ dps

Summoners are the weakest among dps classes right now so pls stop trolling

dps = damage per second. you aren't doing 300 damage every second because of the 2.5 second global cooldown.
09-09-2013, 01:32 PM
Hov

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yenn

Serious question. It seems to be the highest in the game right now.

This is in line with what parsers are showing, accounting for time casts are interrupted to move, the bosses are invulnerable, and reapplying DoTs.

All dots tick every 3 secs. With your shitty logic/test that would give you 250 dps assuming 100% uptime on all of your moves which is impossible because you cant cast all your spells at once. Just because your ruin does 177 avg dmg per cast with a 2.3 sec cast time doesnt mean it will do 77 dps for the whole fight Because in a fight youre not casting it 100% of the time one after another. For this reason even in a vacuum 250dps with those numbers isnt possible. Now add this to a boss fight where youre running o avoid aoe or phases where the boss goes invulnerable to dmg and your dps takes an even bigger hit. Top it off with human error and youre nowhere near 300dps fuck youre lucky if youre still looking at 180.
09-09-2013, 01:33 PM
gigi_frana

So now all should welcome a SMN for the Demon Wall!
or not.
09-09-2013, 01:34 PM
Aguilla

nothing outdamages blm. and not just any blm, but a blm who knows rotations cannot be beat. smn is fine it doesnt need nerfing at all.
09-09-2013, 01:35 PM
Hov

Quote:

Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

dps = damage per second. you aren't doing 300 damage every second because of the 2.5 second global cooldown.

I think if you spend enough time on the forums you devolve and what you just said starts to make sense. To be honest I'm scared that it might happen to me
09-09-2013, 01:36 PM
Yenn

Quote:

Originally Posted by gigi_frana

So now all should welcome a SMN for the Demon Wall!
or not.

I run Amdapor Keep with a BRD, and we kill the Demon Wall before it spawns flies. I think you're just playing with bad players.
In this particular case, I do much more damage than the BRD, because the encounter is so short that starting with 6 Aetherdams is huge.
09-09-2013, 01:39 PM
gigi_frana

You may be right, I play as SCH and my buddy as War. We queue together, and 9/10 we get shit dps-ers that are clueless.
I think it`s time to find a FC or at least 2-3 able DPS-ers.
Will be hard on Shiva.
09-09-2013, 04:13 PM
Qornut

SMN need instant Miasma and Bio II, and Bane shouldn't cost Aetherflow stack. I'm already 49 Summoner, an see Bards, Black Mages an even White mages spamming Holy output they do put DPS Summoner to Shame on Fate Partys. Kinda Sad to see that. :(

We only standout on bosses, lol not bad thing
09-09-2013, 04:48 PM
Malix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rover1983

Wait.... huh? Summoner dps being high? Am I dreaming or is this a joke? Sorry but were currently lower tier dps. Others can disagree but most, if not all the other dps classes out dmg us currently. And no dont say bad player. Has to do with skills doing shit dmg, too long of a ramp up time to get our dmg going and lack of pet dmg.

Bad summoners are lower tier damage. I find myself having to use quelling strike sometimes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yenn

I run Amdapor Keep with a BRD, and we kill the Demon Wall before it spawns flies. I think you're just playing with bad players.
In this particular case, I do much more damage than the BRD, because the encounter is so short that starting with 6 Aetherdams is huge.

your lieing, the wall spawns flies at the next knockback once it at 50%. A BRD with relic +1 and full allagan wouldn't even be able to do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguilla

nothing outdamages blm. and not just any blm, but a blm who knows rotations cannot be beat. smn is fine it doesnt need nerfing at all.

biased opinion is biased.
09-09-2013, 06:50 PM
Bamfking

Raging Strikes + Mega-Potion of Intelligence HQ = 1k+ Festers and consistently rotating DoTs. I feel like my DPS is quite high and outshines most classes even if it wasn't the greatest, I have tons of mobility without lost of DPS even with 2.5 cast times. Making sure Spur + Rouse is on a marco together makes maxing garuda even easier in fights, and with echoes I never miss a pop. Not to mention I can help tanks by buffing their defenses and I'm also a excellent battle resser, helping the load that healers have to deal with.
09-09-2013, 07:29 PM
alphamax112

Im pretty new to SMN class, care to share your rotation in order to get that kind of high dps?
09-09-2013, 07:36 PM
Thotor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yenn

With Amdapor Keep gear and relic weapon, I'm consistently pulling around 250 DPS on all primals. Other classes with similar gear are capping out around 160-180.

FFXIV-App is broken. Don't get your hopes too high.
SMN currently gets all DoTs damage from everyone in the party making them look bigger than what they really are.
09-09-2013, 09:53 PM
Malix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thotor

FFXIV-App is broken. Don't get your hopes too high.
SMN currently gets all DoTs damage from everyone in the party making them look bigger than what they really are.

Not true, since it is simulating DoTs it is in fact impossible for it to do what you claim it is doing. Gotta love this community tho, when it was not simulating your DoTs everyone was all like "smn sucks brd is top". When it finally simulates our DoTs the community is like "ffxiv-app is broken".
09-09-2013, 10:03 PM
Thotor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malix

Not true, since it is simulating DoTs it is in fact impossible for it to do what you claim it is doing. Gotta love this community tho, when it was not simulating your DoTs everyone was all like "smn sucks brd is top". When it finally simulates our DoTs the community is like "ffxiv-app is broken".

Did you even run it lately ?
My DoTs damage as bard is like 300-1000 when before I did over 10k dmg.
If you look at all skills used, you will see ONLY Bio and Bio II doing damage. All DoTs from every party member is accumulated on Bio II.
09-09-2013, 11:26 PM
Mindcl0ud

inb4 summoners are broken with too much DPS. Everyone is falling into place right now and they will release more info / add ons at a later time. I know I was doing good DPS - but all the threads on here for the past two weeks were how "bad summoners are " and now it's going to turn into a cry fest of how "op summoners are" because of the meters.

The meters are probably still a bit broken, and will be fixed over time. For now, know that summoners look to be doing mid-high end DPS and also bring a good amount of versatility. In a stop and go fight ( Garuda ) we have DoT's ticking on her while we can ruin / fester and BLMs only get to cast 1 fire before having to much too much during tornado phase. Let it all settle and we will see where we are. We could also be totally OP and broken, and Square is just finding out :P
09-09-2013, 11:55 PM
Hov

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malix

Not true, since it is simulating DoTs it is in fact impossible for it to do what you claim it is doing.

zzz its easy to test literally just look at the data. Someone posted this boasting about their awesome dps.
http://s24.postimg.org/5rfycpjpx/DPS_Detailed.png

"The dps meter is great but its currently riddled with bugs dots are simulated because the game doesnt show the ticks in the battle log. A recent update broke summoner dots bad. Look for yourself Ruin is an 80 potency nuke bio is a 40 potency tick. Your avg ruin hit was 160 your avg bio tick is 236. I dont know what is causing the bug but it was saying my friend was doing 500dps with his bio 1 ticking for 1k. "

Numbers dont lie with that data Bio should hit for 80 dmg.
09-10-2013, 02:50 AM
Malix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hov

zzz its easy to test literally just look at the data. Someone posted this boasting about their awesome dps.
http://s24.postimg.org/5rfycpjpx/DPS_Detailed.png

"The dps meter is great but its currently riddled with bugs ill have 20-40 attacks per boss fight that dont get counted because I weave fast. Also dots are simulated because the game doesnt show the ticks in the battle log. A recent update broke summoner dots bad. Look for yourself Ruin is an 80 potency nuke bio is a 40 potency tick. Your avg ruin hit was 160 your avg bio tick is 236. I dont know what is causing the bug but it was saying my friend was doing 500dps with his bio 1 ticking for 1k. "

Numbers dont lie with that data Bio should hit for 80 dmg.

Hmmm I ran it and tested it last last night and mines is not bugging like that but than again im not using it in a party setting lol, i guess ill screenshot it next time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thotor

Did you even run it lately ?
My DoTs damage as bard is like 300-1000 when before I did over 10k dmg.
If you look at all skills used, you will see ONLY Bio and Bio II doing damage. All DoTs from every party member is accumulated on Bio II.

it means the simulation is off, it does not mean that its taking your DoTs damage and giving them to SMN.
09-10-2013, 04:23 AM
Hov

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malix

it means the simulation is off, it does not mean that its taking your DoTs damage and giving them to SMN.

You said you only ran the parser solo last night but the patch before last everyone dots in the party didnt count and smn were parsing 500dps. They hotfixed it but its still bugged and bio and bio 2 are showing too much dmg.
09-10-2013, 05:08 AM
Malix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hov

You said you only ran the parser solo last night but the patch before last everyone dots in the party didnt count and smn were parsing 500dps. They hotfixed it but its still bugged and bio and bio 2 are showing too much dmg.

I see, well that just furthur proves my point on how useless the parsers are.
09-10-2013, 05:54 AM
Whitemage82

I melt things as a SMN. Single target things. I can see us being king of single target DPS especially in mobile fights.

BLM is a great combination of range, single target and AOE damage. They cannot however DD on the move. We are great at range, single target damage and we have great DD/mobility power.

However, there's some GLARING issues with this job. Issues like pet AI or how we have no AoE. What we do have (AoE wise) does pitiful damage or the radius is so small it's not effective. (Bane is not reliable in size. Bane on Miser's Mistress doesn't even hit all her fruit). Bio/Bio II do not impact immediately and therefore Stoneskin effects prevent us from applying them.

The job is terrible with target switching due to ramp up and pet disengage. This makes Garuda pinions and Titan's encasing more skill challenging for us to deal with.
09-10-2013, 06:08 AM
glim

Quote:

your lieing, the wall spawns flies at the next knockback once it at 50%. A BRD with relic +1 and full allagan wouldn't even be able to do that.

to the person that said you can't kill wall without having flies up, you can, this has been normal in our group, even doing so without a melee LB since we save it for third boss, I play a SMN, other dps is a monk, a pally tank and a scholar with support type pet, you CAN! kill the wall without him summoning the bees, he dies when casting his second repel.

edit: additional, on third boss we also do not reach a second gargoyl, we ignore the first gargoyl (healer kites) and burn the boss with just 1 LB, since the whole fight doesn't even allow us to have 2 LBs. monk also doesn't hide on second catastrophe.
09-10-2013, 06:41 AM
Seraphi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yenn

Uh what? I added my damage break down, from the battle log and floating text, in the main post. This was tested on dummies on Coerthas.

So you hand wrote all your damage numbers, in Coerthas (ie: Mobs that don't have innately higher resistances to everything), and did teh maf?

This is the cutest thing I've ever read on these forums.

Note, I'm not 50 SMN yet, and I actually don't think the damage is that bad... yet, but this is ridiculous to draw any sort of viable conclusion from.
09-10-2013, 06:44 AM
Malix

Quote:

Originally Posted by glim

to the person that said you can't kill wall without having flies up, you can, this has been normal in our group, even doing so without a melee LB since we save it for third boss, I play a SMN, other dps is a monk, a pally tank and a scholar with support type pet, you CAN! kill the wall without him summoning the bees, he dies when casting his second repel.

edit: additional, on third boss we also do not reach a second gargoyl, we ignore the first gargoyl (healer kites) and burn the boss with just 1 LB, since the whole fight doesn't even allow us to have 2 LBs. monk also doesn't hide on second catastrophe.

dont believe it bcz of how the boss works, shortly after they spawn would be more feesable but b4 it spawns especially without LB is just beyond believable.
09-10-2013, 07:10 AM
glim

@malix

boss will always do 8x purple aoe (middle, sides, middle, sides) before his second repel and casting his bees, regardless of his hp%, he will not purple aoe faster just because his hp is below 50% nor he casts repel faster because of it. he casts bees after second repel not when his hp is at 50%. if you can burn through this as fast as we do, you will not see bees.
09-10-2013, 12:53 PM
Malix

Quote:

Originally Posted by glim

@malix

boss will always do 8x purple aoe (middle, sides, middle, sides) before his second repel and casting his bees, regardless of his hp%, he will not purple aoe faster just because his hp is below 50% nor he casts repel faster because of it. he casts bees after second repel not when his hp is at 50%. if you can burn through this as fast as we do, you will not see bees.

I'm aware of how the boss works but still not feasible unless of course you can of couse show proof to back up your claim.
09-10-2013, 01:03 PM
glim

lol, believe what you want, that is your own perogative. if you still want to deny this then go ahead, it's already been claimed to be true by a few people in this thread, I'm not gonna go out of my way to make a video about it, I don't even know how to make a video, nor I'm gonna talk my mates into doing this run again just to show you that it's true especially now that we're already capped for the week.
09-10-2013, 01:15 PM
Kevee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malix

I'm aware of how the boss works but still not feasible unless of course you can of couse show proof to back up your claim.

I can get him to 25% using an ifrit weapon, with a MNK using ifrit weapon, in mostly AF/AK gear, before adds spawn.

Pretty sure if we both had relics then we could do it.
09-10-2013, 01:42 PM
ReverendBaka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevee

I can get him to 25% using an ifrit weapon, with a MNK using ifrit weapon, in mostly AF/AK gear, before adds spawn.

Pretty sure if we both had relics then we could do it.

I run with a Monk and we both have relics and we killed it just as the adds were spawning, and we were pretty much phoning in the deeps.

Also, I parsed at like 1600-1800 DPS on multiple Titan fights, guys! Summoner OP nerf nerf. It's *definitely not* the parser being wonky.
09-10-2013, 02:10 PM
savant07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReverendBaka

I run with a Monk and we both have relics and we killed it just as the adds were spawning, and we were pretty much phoning in the deeps.

Also, I parsed at like 1600-1800 DPS on multiple Titan fights, guys! Summoner OP nerf nerf. It's *definitely not* the parser being wonky.

Too late. We're taking this as absolute proof of who is top DPS and the standard of which all DPS must be upheld at
09-12-2013, 12:03 AM
Mindcl0ud

MY group also kills the boss before bees spawn. On another note - we also only have to kill one add on the first boss. We burn him before he spawns a second ( before the big rock guy ) then burn him before he spawns more then one add after big rock guy.
09-12-2013, 05:05 AM
GuyWithFace

The parser is definitely broken for SMN. I decided to try doing an AK run as my SMN alt instead of DRG(the first time DPSing as SMN, actually) and this is what the parser showed for Demon Wall.
http://i.imgur.com/yhxtIKm.png

I laughed.
09-12-2013, 07:09 AM
savant07

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyWithFace

The parser is definitely broken for SMN. I decided to try doing an AK run as my SMN alt instead of DRG(the first time DPSing as SMN, actually) and this is what the parser showed for Demon Wall.
http://i.imgur.com/yhxtIKm.png

I laughed.

Looks fine to me!
09-12-2013, 12:12 PM
neoreturn

watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD6PuXBPUJg.. actually that's a black mage doing too much dmg

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