Tanks, don't beat yourself up.
Flash is not meant to hold hate off people attacking different things. How simple would our jobs be if it was just Flash Flash, FB, RB, Flash, Flash, FB, RB?
Flash has two purposes--locking everything on you in the pull and keeping everything off the healer. You and the healer should be the only ones creating any significant hate off targets you aren't attacking.
On boss fights, this changes sometimes but you are not doing something wrong if someone is attacking the wrong target.
Marking is part of my Shield Lob macro. I pick the most dangerous (usually largest) mob in the pack, lob that, flash when i'm close enough, flash again for a boost to enmity and then I do a single target rotation, and then flash again.
On large pulls, it might seem like I flash too much, but you cannot depend on being missed in a large pull, the immunity doesn't matter, your healer will keep you alive if you dodge red, try to keep things in front of your shield, and employ sleeps if your group has them.
As your target is almost dead, pick a new target, I've found that dps will switch to my marked target after the last is dead if I already have it selected.
I get lots of compliments on my tanking and then someone usually starts talking about their last tank, which I ignore.
Flash is capable of everything you need it to be.
Try to be nice. People acting like morons don't deserve your kindness but rude only begets rudeness. Just say "Please attack my marked target. It's easier on the healer if one person is being attacked and things go down as fast as possible--and the only way to do that is for us all to attack the same thing.
Tabbing around when you're comfortable on hate, to check enmity levels, not to wake everything, is a good thing, but I feel horrible for these tanks talking about needing to switch targets constantly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoi
Paladins: AoE hate and you
Printable View
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09-04-2013, 11:50 AMSteeledPaladins: AoE hate and you
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09-04-2013, 02:47 PMZaine
This is a total noob question but how do you check your enmity level? I can clearly see via my target bar who the enemy is attacking but where does it show the level of enmity?
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09-04-2013, 03:25 PMDecoiOn the left hand side of the screen, on top of your chat log, you will see the enemy targets that has any type of hate on you. Green circle next to the enemy name means you are engaged and the enemy is aware of you, but not the target of the enemy (ie. Healer with low enmity). If you are a tank, you want that circle to always be red. That means the enemy is focused on you. Yellow means you are gaining it's attention, but still not attack you. This should also let DPS know when to slow down their casting/attack skills and obviously, the healer's curing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaine
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09-04-2013, 04:35 PMWobbleGobbleCheck out the party frames as well, there is a white bar under each players class/job that will display their enmity on your targeted monster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoi
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09-04-2013, 05:48 PMGaakt^This. This is the most clearest way to note it and see if the target is going to switch soon-ish.Quote:
Originally Posted by WobbleGobble
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09-04-2013, 11:19 PMSoulburn32
Ahh adding a marker to the shield lob in a macro is a good idea
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09-05-2013, 02:30 AMPiedPiper
Its also possible to set mark to a hotkey, if you'd rather it be separate from a particular skill! In general, you don't really need to worry about marking 1 2 3 and so on, just mark 1 and then remark as you defeat targets and move on. As OP said, dds who are off target if you are marking deserve to die. If you're not marking though, that's on you.
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09-05-2013, 07:48 PMMevridMarking current targets with 1 is what I do as well, most parties seem to follow like good little sheep. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by PiedPiper
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09-05-2013, 11:48 PMMyricDps need to /assist more than tanks need to mark. Marking should only be needed for special kill orders really. /assist has be around forever in mmos and I don't know why it's become a lost art. This is why I'll always be against dps meters. They'll pay even less attention to their threat and the target they should be on. Threat is everyone's job, just not the tanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by PiedPiper
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09-06-2013, 04:39 AMCHunterXThis right here. DPS that can't handle pressing T (while targeting the tank) or double-tapping T (while targeting anything fighting the tank) should just stop playing until they can. Stop shoveling every single job in the dungeon onto one player and give them a break for once. The only time things should need to be marked is if it's an early dungeon, like the first two Satasha bosses, or the Imps in Tam-Tara. Otherwise it's painfully easy to just find the first target yourself as a DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myric
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09-06-2013, 04:51 AMPsyotix
I am getting sick of DPS in dungeons. I'm thinking about switching my main to a healer, just so I can make sure the DPS dies.
What is it with Lancers/ Dragoons? I ran 3 dungeons last night each had a BAD Dragoon in the party. They would pull, before I could, they would focus targets 2 or 3 randomly. And just really annoying, and the healer refused to stop healing them.
I took the time to mark and they refused to follow through. -
09-06-2013, 09:18 AMRuminate
I must be doing something "wrong" because I've never lost AoE threat when there's split DPS on my GLD, even before getting Rage of Halone.
What I do: Flash until out of MP, Fast Blade target 1, Riot Blade target 2, Flash again.
Somewhere between 9-10 Flashes, your enmity ecplises trash mob health. When your enmity eclipses mob health, it is impossible to pull aggro from you through damage. You can generate 7 flashes before you need to Riot Blade.
...and after the end of the fight, kindly tell the DPS that if they don't want to wait for you to regen your MP back up to full, then start focus firing.
You can hold threat this way on overzealous Cure II healers, too(Cure II generates more threat per point of heal than Cure I). And if the DPS focus fires, you can end the fight with full MP after dumping all of it on Flash. The second mob will be at full health, ripe for you to regain full MP for the next fight with Riot Blade. -
09-06-2013, 11:16 PMbpphantomThat's just bad DPS. I'm heading to Dragoon with Paladin as a secondary job and I've done all the roles in other games at some point. Good DPS will let the tank head in, give them a couple of attacks/power/spells to gather aggro then jump in behind the target (marked or not depending on player experience) and start their rotations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyotix
Some of us are good DPS, in that we know our role and also know the tanks and healers roles and how to not fsck them up by being idiots. -
09-06-2013, 11:23 PMEmptyFibersSorry to here that, as I run MNK, and I run it well. Not that running DPS is hard per say, but it is easy to follow the tanks engagement and do what you are supposed to. Even if TNK's don't mark targets, it is very easy for me to follow is attacks on the mobs. Sounds like you just keep getting the DPS bums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyotix
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09-07-2013, 12:27 AMbaconlaserbeam
I have two points in response to this thread.
1. AOE hate
The posters stating that flash is meant to keep hate off the healer couldn't be more correct. I ran toto rak a few times last night and once I got paired with two THMs who get this wanted me to spam flash so they could "do whatever they want"... who are these people! I'm a tank not a robot.
2. As for marking I don't mind marking like crazy, its not like its that much work and its liable to keep dps more on track. Should dps attack my target with T, yes, will they 100% of the time probably not, they'll probably do whatever they want XD...
I'm sure there will be lvl 50 dps carrying on like these clowns. Sigh... the life of a tank is not an easy one. -
09-07-2013, 03:25 AMVantwanBecause the Dragoon class tends to attract the worst kind of players, seeing that it's a DPS class that outputs big numbers as well as arguably being the easiest class to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyotix
I'm level 44 at the moment and have been exclusively running dungeons since level 15 for experience so I've seen all kinds of players: tunnel-visioned dps, healbots who only know how to press one button, archers who don't know how to wait 1 second for me to take aggro, monks who only attack behind the enemy, etc. On the flip side I've also been partied with amazing players where everyone knows their role and makes the run incredibly fast and smooth.
I've learned to severely lower my expectations when it comes to the other people in my party, and it usually works out for me. DPS who don't know follow marks allowed me to really practice managing enmity on multiple targets, and as a result of that I can now easily keep threat on 3 targets even when everyone is hitting a different target.
The thing is, bad players will always be there when you use the Duty Finder so the best thing you can do, in my opinion, is to really step-up your game and put in 150% effort to offset the baddies.