Sluggish Running+Enter Battle Animations

First things first, this is not a hate thread, nor am I flaming, or trolling, or knit-picking. I'm simply making an observation that Yoshi-P's team might want to look into in order to quicken the game a bit. If this has already been considered then I apologize.

All of my friends and I have noticed that when you're running through the game, it feels heavy, like you're trying to run through jello. I decided to test out the time it takes to start, go, direct turn, and then stop running.

Now, I understand that physics are important to "realism", but it feels like it's just too much for any MMO. If I'm trying to move in different directions quickly (merely as an example, perhaps future content may need rapid movement?) the character's start/stop animations seem to get a tad confused and the animations don't catch up until I've already done the movement.

Below is a video I found that, I think, shows the sluggishness of the animations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew8Qi2aePVE&feature=related


Notice on the very first mob it takes the player over 4 seconds to stop running and take out their weapon + begin attacking. If you are trying to battle someone for rights to an NM, that's simply not quick enough.

Running:

Start/Changing Direction - Takes 1 (Mississippi) second. Yeah, this seems small, but if I notice a monster is about to aggro me and I have to get out of the way, that 1 full second could mean a big problem.

Stop running - Takes 2 (Mississippi) seconds after lifting my finger from the button. This is two extra seconds of running past where I wanted to stop. Again, seems small, but it can become an issue when you're trying to chase a mob and enter battle mode quickly.

I also decided to look into how long it takes me to draw my weapon + put it away.

Drawing my weapon - 3 (Mississippi) seconds from pressing the button until the character had the weapon out.
Putting weapon away - 3 (Mississippi) seconds from pressing the button until my character put the weapon away.

I decided that an example vs FFXI would be sufficient considering it is the only other wide-spread MMO SE has released. In the video below you will notice some things:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJqwiKfjYJI&feature=related

1) When he starts running, his character is immediately on the go. (I am aware he uses Flee during the fights. I'm strictly speaking without any buffs or debuffs on his character.)
2) At time 0:58 you will see him stop to draw his sword. This whole process only took 1 full second to complete.
3) When his character goes to stop before an attack, the character immediately stops (Good example is at time 3:37).

Something to consider: I think the animation length times themselves as well as the actual physics of the stopping, turning, battle and passive modes should be quickened. It shouldn't take me 4-5 seconds from the time I get to the monster to actually begin attacking it, because if the monster actually was attacking me first, they would have 4-5 seconds of time to do more damage to me than I did to it.



Please give CONSTRUCTIVE feedback. - Reasons why/why not.

Perhaps you are just lagging? I've never had any problem like this.

I've gotten both of the results on two different computers in two separate areas. I've also seen the same thing in FFXIV videos on the net.

Note: Both computers had 5/5 bandwidth and each is a decently built machine that handles the FFXIV graphics easily

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Originally Posted by Kailok

I've gotten both of the results on two different computers in two separate areas. I've also seen the same thing in FFXIV videos on the net.

Note: Both computers had 5/5 bandwidth and each is a decently built machine that handles the FFXIV graphics easily

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What are the specs on you PC?

My PC:
Quad core 2.9GHz Proc
Video Card: 9800GT
4 gigs of 1200 RAM

My brother's PC(at a different location with a different ISP):
Intel Dual Core 2 @2.40GHZ
Cross-firing 2 9800GT cards
6gigs of 1600 RAM


I don't think it's a lag issue. It's not like other games where there are a lot of people around me and the area gets laggy (There's literally 4 people in the whole zone at this point). I don't get lag spikes due to graphics as each of the computers have their settings set to under what they should be able to run. I even tested it by lowering all of the graphic settings to the lowest point and testing it there as well. As I said, I've tested it multiple times, even had friends try it out (one of which even lives in Britain, with a different ISP and a more powerful setup) and they got the same times back as I did.

FFXIV is a RPG and not some action game or fighting game. I really do like the realistic animations, they give the character weight and connect him to the ground. In so many other MMO it feel like the character is as light as a feather and often the steps don't even match the ground speed.
The only thing that really annoys me is the delay you have before and after all actions.
For example if you do repairs, character will stand around for 1-2 seconds then go down and after he is done it will another moment until you have your controls back… Same with shopping.
You very often loose the control of your character because initiating certain actions make him freeze for a moment.

I agree that FFXIV is an RPG, and I'm not saying to turn it into one as quick as that. I like the realistic animations as well, I just think they take too long. Our characters don't run fast enough where you need to take two seconds to stop yourself. Even at full sprint in RL I could stop myself quicker than that by doing the same motion with my legs and crouching a bit to slow down. It's more like they're running around at a leisurely pace, and if you're with friends hunting monsters, I don't think you would be going about it at a leisurely pace.

You're also right and I completely agree that things take a couple seconds delay before continuing. It's kind of what I'm getting at. Not only does the running/entering battle take too long, but pretty much everything else in general has this delay behind it which in itself makes the game feel even heavier.

This might sound weird but is your camera zoomed in or out but not all the way? If your not zoomed in all the way or all the way out you'll be seeing the game at a weird angle and it makes it look weird.

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Originally Posted by Randis

FFXIV is a RPG and not some action game or fighting game. I really do like the realistic animations, they give the character weight and connect him to the ground. In so many other MMO it feel like the character is as light as a feather and often the steps don't even match the ground speed.
The only thing that really annoys me is the delay you have before and after all actions.
For example if you do repairs, character will stand around for 1-2 seconds then go down and after he is done it will another moment until you have your controls back… Same with shopping.
You very often loose the control of your character because initiating certain actions make him freeze for a moment.

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Its an rpg, not an old folks retirement home. These are supposed to be hardened adventurers, in magical world where people can do fantastical things. Look at how people move in cutscenes, they RUN they jump, they jump into the sky! I dont think they need to kill the stop and start animations, i think they are good, but they may need to speed them up. I definetly think they could increase the movement speed of the game across the board, and it wouldnt hurt to add new run animations for when people use quick/movement speed skills.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

This might sound weird but is your camera zoomed in or out but not all the way? If your not zoomed in all the way or all the way out you'll be seeing the game at a weird angle and it makes it look weird.

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I just checked it both zoomed in and zoomed out all the way and I got the same results. Thanks for tryin' though :]

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Originally Posted by Physic

Its an rpg, not an old folks retirement home. These are supposed to be hardened adventurers, in magical world where people can do fantastical things. Look at how people move in cutscenes, they RUN they jump, they jump into the sky! I dont think they need to kill the stop and start animations, i think they are good, but they may need to speed them up. I definetly think they could increase the movement speed of the game across the board, and it wouldnt hurt to add new run animations for when people use quick/movement speed skills.

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I agree, I'm not saying to kill the start/stop animations, but they certainly need to quicken them so that I don't feel so heavy and slow to react.

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Originally Posted by Physic

Its an rpg, not an old folks retirement home. These are supposed to be hardened adventurers, in magical world where people can do fantastical things. Look at how people move in cutscenes, they RUN they jump, they jump into the sky! I dont think they need to kill the stop and start animations, i think they are good, but they may need to speed them up. I definetly think they could increase the movement speed of the game across the board, and it wouldnt hurt to add new run animations for when people use quick/movement speed skills.

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they should be running a lot faster, I totally agree but I think one reason because they don’t ran as fast are the lalafels…
It is more of a jogging now.

Good point, the problem is so that the rest of the races can keep up to the same speed, but Lalafels at full sprint are just...creepy n.n even XI's hopping around was better XD

I think a way to fix that is just increase the speed on the Lalafel without increasing the speed of the animation. It looks the same but they go a bit farther.

Either way, the actual running speed doesn't bother me, though it'd be a bit better if we were just a tad quicker. My main problem is the slow reaction times of animations and the delays you get after initiating an action.

One thing you may consider : Going in to active mode BEFORE trying to engage a monster. Cuts out a lot of the delay when you want to hit something.

I considered that, but it's a different story when you get aggro instead. Yes that's a solution when you have the advantage of surprise on the mob but the other way around it could potentially screw me.

A lot of the response time issues seem to be network issues. Not necessarily a connection problem on your end, but the location of the server itself. Considering that we are playing with JP players and this is a JP company with a JP dev team, you can't expect the servers to reside in the US. If there were US servers, I'm pretty sure the response time would be pretty quick.

I recall watching a Japanese FFXI recording on YouTube a while back and noticing how every single command was practically instant compared to the delay we get in the US. I've noticed the problems you've mentioned for quite a while and this is the best explanation I can come up with. If I'm wrong, I would like to know if there are any specific US servers and where they would be located. Either way, there is nothing you can do about this sort of thing when you try to have a game that envelopes the entire world as a community, someone is going to get shafted by ping no matter what.

Yeah, you make a good point. What is strange though is that I'm sure the XI servers were in Japan as well, and I never had response times such as this. I wonder if one day they'll explain why that is. I understand servers being on the other side of the world but that response time makes the game less fun sometimes. Especially when I'm trying to tank.

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Originally Posted by Kailok

I considered that, but it's a different story when you get aggro instead. Yes that's a solution when you have the advantage of surprise on the mob but the other way around it could potentially screw me.

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But why would a monster not be able to have the advantage of surprise? Like in other FF's, monsters can engage you with a 'Sneak Attack', your entire party will have their backs turned to the monster and will be guarenteed the first attack, with bonus damage.

We should be able to draw and sheathe our weapons while running.

I get that, but that was an actual function of those previous FF games. This is just happening because the actions aren't responding quickly enough. If it were a real function, sure, go for it. Only reason it irks me is because of the fact that it takes me a little over 3 seconds to take my weapon out and begin attacking BECAUSE of poor response times. All I want is for them to make it a little faster. >.> Can't tell me you wouldn't like being able to take out your weapon faster. Or rather, waiting 2 seconds after pressing the button before your character even grabs the weapon.

Not sure if this will work for you, but I have noticed that lowering the graphic quality helps alot in regards to moving around and attacking (still doesn't really help with UI delay though).

At current, the engine is still pretty much badly optimized, so time will tell I guess.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

We should be able to draw and sheathe our weapons while running.

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That would be to much like very awesome action/adventure movie, video game, anime, and book out there.

Try to think inside the FFXI box people!

Seriously though, it might not make a difference to the people still playing but clunky stuff like this is what turns generic game purchaser 100032450 off.

More importantly, popular game conventions have made "i run faster with my knife out" the truth. It is alright to keep us at the same speed but for troops to slow down with weapons out is not only a lie but also kills immersion(yeah, i went there).

Blood lust>Pain

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Originally Posted by Commat

popular game conventions have made "i run faster with my knife out" the truth.

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I also move faster by constantly tumbling everywhere I go. ^_^

I agree the animations do take more time than they should. And it adds up, it shouldn't take several seconds just to engage a mob.

What probably bothers me the most is that you stop in your tracks when you take out/put away your weapon.

Aye, I think my character should have enough hand eye coordination to be able to unsheathe my weapon whilst moving. And my hardened adventurer shouldn't run slow just because my weapon is out. However, that still isn't my main issue. It's just the response times. I'm sure other people don't have the same problem, but I just hope they centralize it just a tad bit more so I don't have the problem. This sucks when I'm trying to tank and it takes forever to start fight + get hate + keep hate from action delays.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

I also move faster by constantly tumbling everywhere I go. ^_^

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I'm not entirely sure if you are being facetious here, but they are different debates to be sure.

A warrior charging in to battle, whipping out his weapon while screaming then going in full force into the enemy is super cool and exciting.

A warrior charging in to battle, whipping out his weapon while screaming and doing cartwheels, back-flips and hopping is less dramatic and made worse when he continues to jump around while defeating foes.


One makes the game smoother and overall more epic while the other adds complexity and/or enjoyment.