[dev1022] The Battle Regimen HATE thread and a ply for auto-attack

I hate battle regimen...

Why are they so bad?

• Final Fantasy XI had auto-attack so you wouldn't have to mash the same basic attack over and over (isn't that just redundant?) and required of timing and coordination (which skill to use, when was it okay to start the skill chain and when was the chain window open for the next skill to be triggered). On the other hand Final Fantasy XIV does exactly the opposite: it forces the player to mash the same action repeatedly in order to get TP, and then removes any need for player to player coordination or timing precise action by boxing the combo into a floating queue that pretty much does everything automatically. You don't even need to pick any skill in particular for them to chain!
• When setting up a BR each player that enters the chain queue is frozen solid and rendered unable to do anything else. This lowers the DPS, stops players from using strategical abilities (such as provoke, cure, etc) and more importantly ... if you want to cast buffs to be used with your ability, you need to do them before engaging, meaning that if they don't get it off extra quickly all buffs will wear off unused due to being stuck in a limbo!

If anything, BRs only achieve one thing: to further enable the player to watch tv or talk on MSN while playing. Its a system designed to pay less attention to what you're doing in the actual game.

I just can't get over the fact that SE decided to make us push the same button over and over and over and over while making skill chains pretty much auto-skill chains! Its so backwards!

You've never done a proper BR then.
A BR will increase DPS by a nice amount, granted your PT mates who will be participating in it cooperate and stack in a timely manner. I take it you haven't looked at the debuffs granted via BR, nor the increased damage output from a stack of 3+. If everyone stacks up in an efficient manner, you'll be back to attacking/healing/voking/etc in a matter of seconds.

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If anything, BRs only achieve one thing: to further enable the player to watch tv or talk on MSN while playing. Its a system designed to pay less attention to what you're doing in the actual game.

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Yeah, because auto attack won't do that at all. Again, cooperate with each other and you will pop a BR in less than a few seconds and be back to whatever you decide to do in battle.

if you need to queu BR for more than 3 seconds, play better or tell your friends to play better.
and if anything BR speeds up your fight by big difference..

I find it funny that people complain about auto attack when most single player games do not have it. Such as fable, the elder scrolls, Zelda. And a few mmo, including DCUO.

I like brs for the simple fact its more free'er. And you still need to coordinate which br to use since you need to do them fast to prevent a long player limbo.

What people forget is not every ws in ffxi was a combo. This lead to alot of jobs getting benched due the inablility to do a skill chain with the set up.

Which is even more funny as that time went on people stop caring about skill chains and just set up dd zergfest with a PL.

Br are more free'er since there is really no "wrong" way to do it in a sence. Like having 2 basic attacks, or having 2 magic attacks. You don;t need anything specific so anyone can paricipate.

Whicxh was a flaw in ffxi which they tried to fix, since only a handful of job wetre "needed" for a party, and if you wasn't one of those job you didn't get a party. Unless it was a last resort.

your point is well taken and a valid argument, however i wholeheartedly disagree with your claims. I feel this new battle system is more strategic/and thought provoking then FFXI auto attack. In FFXI i could macro my abilities on a timer on my BM and solo grind by attacking and pressing one macro... I personally love entering attacks in a que so to speak it makes sure your paying some what attention.

BR i personally love its more thought out than SC, which got extremely boring, and Magic burst still exists so i dont see your statement that DPS drops really relevant.

players coulda created their own styles instead of pressing 1111111111 all the time. But they felt it was stupid. Why even do that when you have job skills you can do? heck with the cross class you skills to add magic so youy going between a few types of attack and make your own combos.

People feel that there is no stragatgy when they need to make it up. Players felt there is no pint and thats their fault. All a game does is provide you with the tools. Not the games fault no one uses them.

And also Auto attack does make players pay attention less. I had several cases of tanks or healers watching tv while playing resulting in crappy taking and healing.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

if you need to queu BR for more than 3 seconds, play better or tell your friends to play better.
and if anything BR speeds up your fight by big difference..

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Exactly. I'm going to quote you from the other thread just to debunk their claims that BR lowers DPS.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

this is 3 WS and ended with 1 nuke
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3974065_n.jpg

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This lowers the DPS

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Let's see you pop a 2361 without BR

kinda funny ppl worry about damage per second then over all damage or death of a monster. Think ppl starting to take mmo to seriously if your not having fun. Anyway. Ya this game wasn't set up to be constently attack stuff with the 1 key. People did that on their own. Due to it being the only way to get sp. Which is no longer the case.

Battle regimens are the best feature in the game right now.
/vote BRs stay

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

kinda funny ppl worry about damage per second then over all damage or death of a monster. Think ppl starting to take mmo to seriously if your not having fun. Anyway. Ya this game wasn't set up to be constently attack stuff with the 1 key. People did that on their own. Due to it being the only way to get sp. Which is no longer the case.

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Honestly, I've been trying to restrain myself from saying this, but stop posting since you clearly have no actual grasp on the game as you do not play it.
Damage per second ties in directly to the overall damage and death of the monster. If you're dealing less damage, it dies slower. You deal more, it dies faster. If you and the group as a whole aren't doing a decent or better amount of damage, good luck killing off a mob in a timely manner.

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Originally Posted by Impulse

Honestly, I've been trying to restrain myself from saying this, but stop posting since you clearly have no actual grasp on the game as you do not play it.
Damage per second ties in directly to the overall damage and death of the monster. If you're dealing less damage, it dies slower. You deal more, it dies faster. If you and the group as a whole aren't doing a decent or better amount of damage, good luck killing off a mob in a timely manner.

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And that is different any other game? I'm not one to really care about dps so much as i attack something and make it dead. I had this mindset in every mmo I played.

You guys are really getting silly with the "you don't play" When this is no different then any other mmo. I tend to not take a game to seriously. As long as the monster/creature is dead and I'm alive i typically don't care. This was the same for every game I've played. Only thing I did was find ways to kill a monster faster.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

And that is different any other game? I'm not one to really care about dps so much as i attack something and make it dead. I had this mindset in every mmo I played.

You guys are really getting silly with the "you don't play" When this is no different then any other mmo. I tend to not take a game to seriously. As long as the monster/creature is dead and I'm alive i typically don't care. This was the same for every game I've played. Only thing I did was find ways to kill a monster faster.

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You seem to misunderstand what DPS actually is...DPS, damage per second, will kill the mob faster. "Only thing I did was find ways to kill a monster faster." The higher your DPS, the faster the mob dies. If your DPS is low, the mob will die slowly. If your DPS is high, the mob will die faster.

As far as the comments about you not playing...they actually have a point. You have a small grasp on semi-basic concepts from the crap that you read on the forums, but you really have no experience with the game. Take for example...you were going to have an operation on your heart. Who would you want to operate on you? Your choices are as follows: 1) A licensed brain surgeon with credentials through the roof or 2) A high school dropout that wants to operate on you because he saw it on a show once.

In this case, you are #2.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I'm not one to really care about dps so much as i attack something and make it dead.
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Only thing I did was find ways to kill a monster faster.

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So, you were looking for ways to do more damage in a smaller timeframe, aka increasing your DPS? You just contradicted yourself.
Anyways, back on topic.
Chances are if you're hating the BR system, you aren't in a group capable of stacking and executing in a quick manner, or you didn't take the time to learn it. Hell, I learned it in less than a minute. What's so damn hard and complicated about stacking Light/Heavy attacks, then WS/Magic etc? Nothing. You just want something to complain about.

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Originally Posted by Impulse

So, you were looking for ways to do more damage in a smaller timeframe, aka increasing your DPS? You just contradicted yourself.
Anyways, back on topic.
Chances are if you're hating the BR system, you aren't in a group capable of stacking and executing in a quick manner, or you didn't take the time to learn it. Hell, I learned it in less than a minute. What's so damn hard and complicated about stacking Light/Heavy attacks, then WS/Magic etc? Nothing. You just want something to complain about.

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no not really. I just try to kill a mob faster with use of abilities. I don't go in and put to much thought into how much dmg per second i'm doing. Aka I don;t take a game to seriously.

And Yes I know what dps is. And no I'm not misunderstanding it. Its my opinion. One i'll have playing this game or ffxi or any other mmo. I tend to not put to much though and just try different timing of skills.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

You seem to misunderstand what DPS actually is...DPS, damage per second, will kill the mob faster. "Only thing I did was find ways to kill a monster faster." The higher your DPS, the faster the mob dies. If your DPS is low, the mob will die slowly. If your DPS is high, the mob will die faster.

As far as the comments about you not playing...they actually have a point. You have a small grasp on semi-basic concepts from the crap that you read on the forums, but you really have no experience with the game. Take for example...you were going to have an operation on your heart. Who would you want to operate on you? Your choices are as follows: 1) A licensed brain surgeon with credentials through the roof or 2) A high school dropout that wants to operate on you because he saw it on a show once.

In this case, you are #2.

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then please explain how this mindset was say any different then ffxi?
or how is this game any different then any mmo when it comes to killing things.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

no not really. I just try to kill a mob faster with use of abilities. I don't go in and put to much thought into how much dmg per second i'm doing. Aka I don;t take a game to seriously.

And Yes I know what dps is. And no I'm not misunderstanding it. Its my opinion. One i'll have playing this game or ffxi or any other mmo. I tend to not put to much though and just try different timing of skills.

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Trying to kill a mob faster is still trying to increase DPS. Regardless of what you want to call it, that's what it is. You clearly do misunderstand the concept. Stop. Posting. Hell, I'll even go as far as saying get out of my state.

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Originally Posted by Impulse

Trying to kill a mob faster is still trying to increase DPS. Regardless of what you want to call it, that's what it is. You clearly do misunderstand the concept. Stop. Posting. Hell, I'll even go as far as saying get out of my state.

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dps = dmg per second. First seen for me in ffxi. This was more for the DD classes to increase their attack power and speed of which they use to do the most damage per second. This mindset also lead to "over powered" players and mild "elitism" as jobs that had no real way to maximise their dps were benched. AkA the loldrg and lolpup days. More so wuth Lol pup since they used the manuvers which "decreased" their dps.
Thats what I learned in ffxi.

DCUO dps is pretty much considered the DD role since all you did was damage a mob. While the main roles were Tank healer Controler.
the dps role is not considered a role once you unlock 1 of the main 3.

WoW pretty much the same as ffxi but actually had a stat showing your basic dps.

I tbink people just don;t like my opinon and vs letting me have it pull the "you don't play" card as to think im going to think differently if I play.
Just because I'm not of the same opinion as you that I don;t understand something. I could care less about a persons dps. As long as we have fun thats all I care about.

Kinda funny you guys are fighting with me over a stupid concept when I overall agree with you on the topic at hand. Instead of fighting with me on my opinon, that i'm going to have regardless. You focus your attention to what I said about the topic.
You guys are getting a bit to sensitive to my opinions. When you can just ignore my opinion and focus what I said about the topic.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Kinda funny you guys are fighting with me over a stupid concept when I overall agree with you on the topic at hand. Instead of fighting with me on my opinon, that i'm going to have regardless. You focus your attention to what I said about the topic.
You guys are getting a bit to sensitive to my opinions. When you can just ignore my opinion and focus what I said about the topic.

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I'm not getting sensitive to your opinion, I'm just saying that your opinion is wrong (and yes..opinions CAN be wrong) Ok, so you know that DPS is damage per second...again, this leads to how fast the mob dies. There is a difference between knowing the game and being an elitist. If doing BRs is the best way to get good DPS, you better use it or you will be kicked since BRs are extremely easy and accessible to everyone. This is not the same has having X gear, mind you, since some gear is out of reach of certain players. BRs are not. Once you start playing the game, if you don't cooperate with the party and DO YOUR JOB, you will be kicked, blocked and reported. You don't want this, do you?

BR's take practice and know how....

I'll stop there.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

I'm not getting sensitive to your opinion, I'm just saying that your opinion is wrong (and yes..opinions CAN be wrong) Ok, so you know that DPS is damage per second...again, this leads to how fast the mob dies. There is a difference between knowing the game and being an elitist. If doing BRs is the best way to get good DPS, you better use it or you will be kicked since BRs are extremely easy and accessible to everyone. This is not the same has having X gear, mind you, since some gear is out of reach of certain players. BRs are not. Once you start playing the game, if you don't cooperate with the party and DO YOUR JOB, you will be kicked, blocked and reported. You don't want this, do you?

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umm no my opinion isn't wrong, nor can be wrong just because I don't think the same way as you. And I take pride in my job, I tend to get what I feel is the best gear, and I do my play my class to help the party. And I like brs. :) So no issue with me using them.

I don't take the game super seriously as to tell others what gear to use, or how to play. That is my opinion. Like I said i just play a game fore fun. And that don;t mean that is acting like an Idiot and not helping my party.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

umm no my opinion isn't wrong, nor can be wrong just because I don't think the same way as you. And I take pride in my job, I tend to get what I feel is the best gear, and I do my play my class to help the party. And I like brs. :) So no issue with me using them.

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Good and yes, an opinion can be wrong. If the sky is blue and you say it's red...you're wrong, even though that is your opinion. If a TV's volume is at Max, it is too loud, but if you say that it is too quite, you are wrong, even though that is your opinion. If you are drunk and you say that you are not, you are wrong, even though that is your opinion. See the trend?

C'mon brs up dmg more than anything and if ur only using the 1 button ur wasting all cross calls skills people whininhg will kill this game not the dvs end mini rant jesus some children never grow up!!!!

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Originally Posted by Speeral

C'mon brs up dmg more than anything and if ur only using the 1 button ur wasting all cross calls skills people whininhg will kill this game not the dvs end mini rant jesus some children never grow up!!!!

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This game's combat system is too hard for a lot of people.......

OP sounds like he has no idea what hes talking about.

Skillchains where a pain in the ass in 11, mainly because some tit would always mess it up.

As a conjurer I can tell you now that BR's rock, I can get over 2000 damage when stacking a debuff + Profundity II + tier 2 spell at the end of a BR.

@OP, I was in the same boat as you. Until I took the time to study up on BRs, and start teaching people how to do them. Now, I won't stay in a party where people refuse to do them. A great example, today I was in a 4star leve against some imp type mobs, as the off tank. The imps kept one shotting us. I said we needed to do BRs or lower to 3 stars because I was sick of dying. They told me they didn't want to loose the SP from going to 3 stars, so I needed to suck it up and die for them. I've taken those imps down plenty of times with BR - BEFORE they did their one-shot kill. Not only have I done it but it is SUPER easy.

Engage. BR to lower defense/mdefense (depending on classes)
BR for damage multiplier.
IF the thing is still alive, another BR will kill it, if a single WS doesn't do it on its own.

No one dies. The leve doesn't take forever. All it takes is learning how to hold the shift button down when you press 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/0 or whatever (or using your emote/br button on a controller instead of the "select" button).

Needless to say, I quite the party. They can grind leves all they want, and you're welcome to as well if that is what you prefer. As I said, I was there, I used to agree with your opinion. Now, hell no, no way, ain't gonna happen. BR's are awesome, crazy, quick, and most important, fun.

dunb you're mixing up fact and opinion. And more importently look at our convo in a 3rd person pov. You fighting with someone over an opinion when over all they agree with you on the topic at hand. Do you know how silly that looks?
I'm not trying to change you opinion either if you find fun in calucaling your dps more power to you. I don't that is the opinion I have. So saying i don;t care to much about dps is not a right or wrong opinion. It is just how i feel/think.

And by you're example your trying to state facts not opinions. You are stating that the sky is red and that is a fact. If it think the sky is red and that is your opinion. Cool id wonder if you had a rare form of color blindess and ask you to see a doctor. Same with the drunk, he is stating a fact that he is not drunk. Now If he stated that he don't think he is drunk, different story as he may not know what being drunk feels like.

Fact and opinions are on a fine line when it comes to wording them.

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Originally Posted by Reika

This game's combat system is too hard for a lot of people.......

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<- lawled +1

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Originally Posted by Impulse

Yeah, because auto attack won't do that at all. Again, cooperate with each other and you will pop a BR in less than a few seconds and be back to whatever you decide to do in battle.

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The only thing autoattack does is give more time to talk with your teamates and to think and trigger skills without downtime caused by moving through your skills.
Or even better, where did you pay more attention during battles? In XI with its autoattack or in XIV with its consistant mashing?

Answer: XI.

And well, the player involvement required in skillchains being a lot higher than BR isn't even up for argument.

edit // PS:
Also, if it didn't work the way it did, you'd have more time to trigger buffs off or harness more TP for 2k+ tp skills. You also wouldn't be risking having your buffs wear off due to someone else. You'd be a lot more in control.

Do you like the effects of BRs? I said nothing against them. You could easily keep those without giving away all the control you have over whats being done.

The roles are reversed here: BRs basically make the system play for you, while you do what the system should be doing. Mashing one over and over.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

dunb you're mixing up fact and opinion. And more importently look at our convo in a 3rd person pov. You fighting with someone over an opinion when over all they agree with you on the topic at hand. Do you know how silly that looks?

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If I am mixing fact with opinion, then so are you. Again, opinions can be wrong. I think you should take a few courses in Sociology and Philosophy lol. Let me give you another example. Let's say that you think...Conjurer is the best overall mage in the game. Now, that is your opinion. Let's also say that...stats and numerous tests have proven THM to be the best mage, as fact. In this case, your opinion is wrong.

Also, I know that you agree with us on the topic, but I also want you to understand parts of other posts made in this thread, such as the validity of an opinion.

like stating i think the grass is soft. To me it might feel soft. To you the grass might now feel soft, so you say I don't think the grass is soft.

those are differences in opinions and neither are right and wrong.
But again more importently for fighting with someone who agree with you on the topic. which is infact looks silly.

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Originally Posted by Reika

This game's combat system is too hard for a lot of people.......

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and ppl wonder why they dumbed stuff down and make it easy?
fact is people are dumb, they complain about stuff being too easy but cant grasp the concept of BRs

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Originally Posted by Reika

This game's combat system is too hard for a lot of people.......

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Seems that way. I made the transition from XI without a hitch, so I don't see how it's so hard for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

dunb you're mixing up fact and opinion. And more importently look at our convo in a 3rd person pov. You fighting with someone over an opinion when over all they agree with you on the topic at hand. Do you know how silly that looks?

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Do you know how silly you look when you say that you don't care about DPS, then go on about how you like to find ways to kill mobs quicker? You're the one mixing up fact with your own opinions. You said you don't care, then say you do. We catch you on the hypocrisy and you cry opinion then agree with what we said, then flop back over to what you said initially.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

If I am mixing fact with opinion, then so are you. Again, opinions can be wrong. I think you should take a few courses in Sociology and Philosophy lol. Let me give you another example. Let's say that you think...Conjurer is the best overall mage in the game. Now, that is your opinion. Let's also say that...stats and numerous tests have proven THM to be the best mage, as fact. In this case, your opinion is wrong.

Also, I know that you agree with us on the topic, but I also want you to understand parts of other posts made in this thread, such as the validity of an opinion.

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You're silly :3

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I hate battle regimen...
If anything, BRs only achieve one thing: to further enable the player to watch tv or talk on MSN while playing. Its a system designed to pay less attention to what you're doing in the actual game.

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I actually love and enjoy BR's very much, my shell showed me how to use them and how to raise my DPS and take down the mob or mobs faster by using them. In my opinion I don't think it make's you pay less attention to what is going on in the game and I have one simple reason for this:

Timing.

To make a BR work properly the player must have good timing, you must get 'X' amount of Light and Heavy off within 'X' amount of time. Once that is done then the player must get off their Magics and WS's within a specific amount of time. This makes me pay more attention to the game! I actually listen to the person in our group who's telling us when to do what, and then do what I need to do within that limited time frame. If the players timing is off it messes it up and makes people wait in queue for a longer amount of time...

I agree with the few people who said that maybe you haven't done a proper BR... especially if you're watching TV, chatting on MSN, etc... while trying to do one.

Sorry but I don't agree with you, SE please keep BR's in the game!

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Originally Posted by Impulse

Seems that way. I made the transition from XI without a hitch, so I don't see how it's so hard for everyone else.



Do you know how silly you look when you say that you don't care about DPS, then go on about how you like to find ways to kill mobs quicker? You're the one mixing up fact with your own opinions. You said you don't care, then say you do. We catch you on the hypocrisy and you cry opinion then agree with what we said, then flop back over to what you said initially.

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Your misunderstanding me. I don't care about dps in the most extreme sence. Meaning I don;t care how much dmg I do. As long as I feel its good thats what I care about. By me finding ways to kill stuff faster is me picking using my spell a way I feel is good.

I don;t go to the extreme and say use a dps meter. Or calucale everything out. I experimant and just do stuff w/o a partiular order to kill a mob.

AkA i just have fun w/o too much worry.

Even better you guys just made something out of nothing. So you both are silly. You just didn't like what i said and made it into a big deal. And you made I'm calling you out on it.

Stick to the topic, I only wanted to reply as to not be rude.

And last I checked topic is about br not "how kilta think and how we are better then her"

Stop replying to him/her/it. Nothing meaningful ever comes out of it except garbled ramblings.