[dev1039] How does this work?

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[dev1039] When the three below conditions are met in regards to the grade and difficulty of a gathering attempt, the "sweet spot" of the approach phase will be in a fixed location.

1. Class rank
2. Values of VIT for miners, STR for botanists, and DEX for fishers
3. Bait and lures (for fishing only)

ex.) At a certain grade and difficulty, having the appropriate rank, DEX value, and bait/lure will ensure that jigging the rod precisely in the middle will result in a black eel hit.

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I am not even sure what the approach phase is suppose to mean.

I can't figure out what has been changed. Here is what my experience has been so far. With botany my strike point, the point at which you successfully gather a item, is constant. However, with mining it would seem that my strike point is constant based on what item you are about to dig up. With botany the strike point seems to be constant based on the tree. I am just am ultra confused right now and I would appreciate someone trying to figure out what changes have been made.

The example they give in the patch notes make it sound like you can choose which items you are obtaining while gathering. So far with my testing this does not seem to be the case.

All I can say is what has changed for me since the patch, and that is Mining on my current Rank became a random calculated luck game again, which makes me completely furious.

I'm 31MIN, I mine on Grade 4 since 28, mostly Silver for my BSM grind and GSM later on. I know all the Nodes at Humblehearth which have Silver in it. Going by the Remainder Bar I was able to determine which item I'll dig up(at least 90% of the time, since Silver shares the same Remainder Bar with Obsidian). Silver Ore/Sand was usually in between the Center and Middle Circle of the Mini-Game(90% of the time at least). It was consistant and made Gathering "enjoyable" cause it was my "own" skill that made it easier for me to gather, not something that was "calculated" by the game.

Now, since the patch the situation is completely different. Silver Ore/Sand is just at any Circle Area and it changes almost any gathering attempt. This is me on MIN31 on Grade 4 Nodes with capped VIT...so which Rank does SE want me to get to to have Silver Ore/Sand at a fixed location...before the patch it took me 2 hits max to get my Silver...now it can take me up to 4 damn hits because Silver is just anywhere.

Conclusion: Why does SE have to get a really good patch ready and then change something, that was all fine and worked for everybodey(Disciples of the Land will have fun changing/theorycrafting all the information again...) into a stupid Random BS...cause that's what is right now for me. If R31 is not enough to get me a fixed location for Silver...what Rank am I supposed to get to for something as common as Silver?????

All I can say now is, Mining became annoying for me(and I really liked Mining before the patch)...cause before it had a pattern that I could follow, now its just stupid Random nonsense. And if there is anything FFXIV needs right now, its not RANDOM calculated nonsense.

There is still a pattern, now it's simply a matter of knowledge. In what you describe there is no "skill" at all. Same applies for the new system, but now with proper knowledge you can make a fortune still.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

There is still a pattern, now it's simply a matter of knowledge. In what you describe there is no "skill" at all. Same applies for the new system, but now with proper knowledge you can make a fortune still.

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And what pattern is that? On R31(Grade 4) there is no pattern at all for Silver anymore. What Rank am I supposed to hit to get that pattern again? On one and the same mining node Silver Ore was at 3 different locations, and Silver Sand at 2 different...thats ALL on one and the same node. If simply my Rank is the only thing that keeps that pattern away from me atm...then how long am I supposed to grind on something thats random, before it actually has a pattern again? Cause right now all items are just spread between all circles...and I'm seriously not in the mood to hit 4 times for each damn item.

Tirion I do agree the rank requirement will be quite annoying. It would seem that they made it easier for gathering below your rank to one shot items. I am just finding it strange that it appears to be different between mining and logging. With logging depending on the tree determined the gather point. While I went mining it seemed what determined the gather point was the location of the remainder bar. However, I am not quite sure. I am too frustrated at the moment to go out and try it again.

I am quite annoyed. I love gathering silver at humble at R24 with 2 swings. Now it does take 4 swings most of the time. It would seem to me I am obviously under ranked for that grade, but I find it strange you are not meeting the magical requirements to one shot those nodes.

I dont know, but what i think what they were trying to say is if you meet those requirements and you're aiming at the sweetspot for an item, you are more likely to get that item. however I haven't noticed any change since the patch. i am R25 miner mining in GR3 area Bloodshore. I Aim at the limonite spot, and still get pyrite, copper ore, etc, and occasionally a limonite. 160+ Vit, R25, GR3, and All gathering clothes with proper rank tool. I don't sense much of a change here.

My thoughts is it needs a bug report.

So from what I can tell each item has a specific strike/chop/jig point that will stay constant. So if walnut logs will have the same chop point on any walnut tree I am not sure. So far I know at least all grade 4 walnut trees have the same chop point for walnut logs.

What I am confused about now is that the example given in the patch notes makes it seem like you can force a specific item to drop while gathering if you have the right rank and stats. Is this not the case?

Correct. Like aiming for copper ore is always a love tap, while aiming for iron ore is always a semi-heavy heavy strike. HOWEVER, the update is still ignoring the real 'sweet spot'. the spot we pick before beginning our strike/chip/jig phase. You can still select anywhere and, striking in the right places above, still obtain a completely different item. It wont always be Iron ore in the iron ore sweet spot is where I am getting at. I think the devs confused Sweet spot with Strength of the chop/strike or direction of the jiggle.

Well I just tried fishing at r30 in grade 4. So far it has been so much worse than before the patch. I used to be able to catch about 80-90% of my hooked fish, now it is around 60%. I have good gear for my level and the r32 rod. I am not able to get what I am aiming for (hammerhead sharks with spoon lure) out of my 60 fish caught I caught 3 hammerhead sharks.

I know DoL was tedious to level before, but now it is almost unbearable. Is it to much to ask to be able to somewhat catch a fish you have a favoured bait for and in a rank appropriate grade? It seems like this patch only made it harder to level and didn't change anything for the r50s.

A major step backwards!

So they just screwed some things again. Bad to read this. I hope they will not nerf it anymore.

This is very strange. I am logging with 0 strength at the moment and the chop point on the trees hardly move. Sometimes they do not move at all other times I might get 1 stray item out of 7. Now I am really confused. I would think that if you where at 0 str that the chop point would move around much more frequently. Or perhaps our interpretation of the patch notes is incorrect? I would love some clarification.

Last night, I tried gathering for the first time since the patch.

I'm losing more items, and in a similar situation to TirionCrey where what I 'knew and expected' has turned into more of a crapshoot.

It's rather upsetting that SE hates gatherers so much. (the lower SP rewards, leve spots surrounded by aggressive mobs, +1/+2 items still clogging up our inventories, etc).

I'd seriously give up gathering if I didn't desperately need materials like gold sand, jade, fish, lac bugs, yew logs, faerie apples to support my crafting habit.

A little late to this convo. But I can't find a more active topic on it.

I've been feeling annoyed ever since whatever patch it was that made gemstones so rare and frustrating to pull up. As a goldsmith with a fondness for these shinies, it made mining just a way to fill up my inventory more or less. But I kept hoping that it'd get easier as I ranked up.

I am a r32 miner and I do my mining leves at Cedarwood and most of my regular mining in Coerthas, Camp Glory. Grade 4 nodes all, and if that means I'm mining over my rank - someone should tell my sp and class abilities that. I am feeling the same frustration as Tirion and Quicksilverfang.

Pre-patch, the sweetspot didn't really seem to matter at all. I could find anything anywhere, especially iron in Limsa's nodes. But once I knew what I had from the remainder bar, I knew where on the hot and cold game it would be 90 percent of the time. Not consistent of course, but at least reliable enough that I wasn't completely guessing with every swing.

Post-patch, with 100+ vit and using the proper level tool, the sweetspot still doesn't matter. I still get anything anywhere. But now the location on the hot and cold game is completely random. Which makes getting gemstones with their tiny little remainder bar even that much more impossible, and mining in general a lot more irksome.

I dunno what was so broken with it before that they felt they had to do this. Cause right now it feels more broken than ever. If its going to be so random now, might I suggest implementing a one swing hit or miss system and doing away with the mini game. At least then it wouldn't take twice as much time to get the same random result. -_-

So far, it feels like this patch has done the opposite of what it says, and is making gathering quickly go the way of crafting for me; something I used to enjoy but now just find too irritating to bother with.

After some time with this change it seems like they implemented it as a way to curve people from entering g5 and getting consistent until about low-mid r40s. Or I suppose just preventing people from going straight to the next grade when they get the next tier of Scan ability. Basically even though I got Scans for both BTN and MIN at r38, there's no consistency at all in g5 when compared to the same item in g4. To reiterate I can get Silver Ore to be fixed in g4, heck I don't even think I have to pump VIT to do it (for g4 BTN all of my logs are fixed regardless of base STR); but the minute I try to go to g5 (with 128 alloted VIT) and specifically aim for, and subsequently get Silver Ore in my approach phase, it's all over the place!

My guess is SE needed a way to stretch out the time spent in earlier grades, perhaps to limit supply of some of the upper tier materials.

SE needed a way to limit the supply of higher rank materials. If there is a reliable way to get precious high rank materials consistently, the system is broken and needs fixing.

I suppose I didn't realize high end materials were that great in supply now, what with how much folks charge on em. Still, if that is the reason then I dunno why gatherers keep having to bear the brunt of the measures to fix the item crisis. Especially at the cost of our sp. Gathering fatigue wasn't enough? It begins to feel as if they view gathering classes as simply a way to make gil instead of being a class all their own.

So I guess this means I am indeed too low for grade 4 even though I've had the scan for 4 ranks now, and in spite of only getting 100sp per successful attempt, and 40 something for a fail - which is a much more likely result with the new system.

If they are dead set on not letting gatherers below 50 get any of the high end items, why not make the new system apply per item, rather than per gathering grade. Either way I don't think its going to do much to the item supply, and right now it only serves to frustrate the folks currently leveling up the gathering classes.