Duty Finder - Kick option or stop mixing legacy/non-legacy servers

We leveled to 50 quickly with the intent of having an easy time running dungeons for gear, because normally, the players who reach max level quickly are all good players.

Due to legacy players, this is not the case. We're having a really hard time with legacy players who are 50, but extremely bad.

Roughly 2/3 of our tanks cannot hold threat off of the healer, let alone the DPS. They do not make any attempt to avoid damage. One of them kept using limit break on cooldown, not even during bosses.
About 1/3 of our healers just mash Cure, without using Cure II or Medica to adapt to the situation.

When we do get in parties with other good players, they always comment on how good the group is, and complain about their previous groups, so there are evidently a lot of really bad DPS, as well.

It's so bad that we're just leaving the dungeon and taking the 15 minute waiting period, because these players are performing so poorly that it isn't worth staying.

What a rude and pathetic thread, want my feedback, I usually demand to get rid of opinionated elitist kids such as yourself from dungeons; where are your friends if you are so grrreeat?

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Originally Posted by Yenn

because normally, the players who reach max level quickly are all good players.

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I have to disagree with you completely. Most of the time they're people with way too much free time, or exploiters (even though they often deny that what they do is an exploit), and that's on top of being elitists. So when you meet other elitists who don't play games for fun, throw out friend requests, form a free company together, switch servers. Then you can have own little insular group that can talk about how great you are. As a bonus, the rest of us don't have to put up with your vitriol when we haven't min-maxed enough to please you.

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Originally Posted by Cyrek

What a rude and pathetic thread, want my feedback, I usually demand to get rid of opinionated elitist kids such as yourself from dungeons

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The "great" thing about these elitist snobs? Give it like two weeks and they'll be complaining about how there isn't enough endgame content and run off to another mmo.

Stupid idea.... Stop with the anti-legacy crap already.

where is the thumb down option?

we are at very early phase of game

many players still learning the Dungeons

if you are so elite, teach them what they have to beware

of

you can simply form your own elite group so you dont have to use the duty finder

I'm on a server with a total of three level 50 players. I queue with one of them, but we don't have the option of forming groups.

We've found that queueing for Amdapor Keep is better than Wandering Palace, because the unskilled legacy players are unable to unlock it. Either way, it's kind of a silly problem.
I was under the impression that champions like Garuda, which are very punishing of single mistakes, were to gate these players off.

The issue is primarily that in order to reach level 50 from scratch, in 2.0, you need to have a good understanding of your class and game mechanics, which comes from various story quests and guildhests. These players completely skipped that. It's almost akin to giving a brand new player level 50 and throwing them into the game. I'm not sure how anyone can defend this.

No, they didn't skip anything. I leveled archanist from level 1 too, and I am a legacy player. You telling me that I don't know wtf to do on arcanist because I am legacy?

And even if Legacy players chose to avoid lvling archanist, every story and sidequest instance and dungeon lvl syncs you, so they have to learn from the start one way or the other. The only lvl50 content that you can apparently skip right to is Wanderer's Palace.

I Legacy player , and idk really what players you met before . I kicked all content that i was Able to do in last few days , that incluted tonn of Dungs . No i still didnt Palace , BUT i did about all Dungs before this (Dzemael was last so AV & Palace left only so i will do them tommorow) . To learn wtf to do in this game - player need spent about 1~day per job ( i played 3~day as paladin only cause playing paladin since 1.0 ) I can tell that 2.0 with content we have now is much easier than content we have before for sure . Dzemael now - 30 min of fun w/o chance of wipe , Dzemael before - 8ppl's , 1 noob mistake on Ogre (that was 1st boss of Dzemael) and all pt wipe ! same for other Dungs lol . I really can't belive that Legacy (if this player was at least mid play style) player can do fail things in 2.0 lol (at least on things that OP posting).
In conclusion : 2.0 have some diff from 1.0 , but if player played 1.0 well - he will play 2.0 more well for sure lol as all new players .

Come to JP server then, we never hear of those kind of issue here.

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Originally Posted by Yenn

When we do get in parties with other good players, they always comment on how good the group is, and complain about their previous groups, so there are evidently a lot of really bad DPS, as well

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That's the sheep effect and it exists everywhere.
People tend to complain to other people about how bad their previous group / game was and how much they sucked, thinks it gives them a sense of self esteem.

I seen what I quoted from you in WoW, Rift , League Of Legends, Aion, basically every game that involves needing teamplay with real human beings.
It says nothing about how ''bad'' their previous group really was , and if they didn't f*cked up a tactic themselves and are looking for a sheep to blame, so they whine to a new group about how terribad the other one was.

Most of legacy players had to adapt to a complete change in their job mechanics for 3 times now, I don't think it represents a big problem. There are minor changes from 1.23 compared with previous changes, mostly in the order you use skills and combos and the loose of many debuff and true strategic abilities (not the joke we've got now) in oreder to make it a more casual game.
As you progress in quest line you have chance to addapt to changes through lv caps so I think all the thing has been well implemented alhough legacy have to repeat everything.
But anyway, next time you are in that hysteric attack of elitism in which you despreciate and blame your legacy companions because of this or that, count to 10, deep breath, and remember that if wasn't for those players who paid their fee for 3, 8, 10 months for an unplayable, boring and continously changed game, maybe you were not doing that instance now, wearing that fancy piece of gear or even playing this game at all.

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Originally Posted by Yenn

I'm not sure how anyone can defend this.

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Simple, it's the second day of official launch <.< A lot of people can't even play and you're complaining that you get teamed up with unskilled players.. Also if you want efficiency there are FCs :D create one on your server and if there aren't enough level 50s.. help people improve instead of bothering us with your nonsense please

Hmm while I don't support the reasons behind the OP here I actually found this thread because it is an issue I just got stuck with... sort of. We qued up and landed an RMT named Efsds sporting level 1 whites in a level 38 dungeon. He had no grand company had not unlocked any other classes besides his level 50 Thaumaturge had not even bothered to unlock black mage and would use Blizzard III every 10 seconds or so.

If you were a solo DPS who just spent 40 minutes in a que then got that wouldn't you be a little disappointed? (I'm a healer so it didn't affect me too greatly I'm here for the greater good honestly)

I feel the option to kick should be introduced but starting a whinge thread probably wont get any attention.

In regards to the issue with people not knowing how to play their level 50 classes I don't think adding a kick function to a dungeon would be beneficial for anyone. Instead wouldn't forcing players to participate in lower dungeons and guild heists (limiting the amount of skills available and encouraging a learning experience) Be better for everyone?

How about you educate other players on how to properly play the game without flaming them? Or if you can't be bothered, then find a private group and play with them. Like you said, you hardcore players are typically good. It's not hard to search for level 50's on your server. I'm sure they don't want to play with you anyway. I wouldn't. And if you bother replying, I will automatically assume that you're lost for words if you throw any insult at my "skill" without even knowing how I play.

Man I have seen some bad ideas in my time but this is just awful.

Learn to deal with it, you get bad players in all MMO's.

1.0 and 2.0 are very different as far as game mechanics are concerned. Many of the dungeons that DID exist in 1.0 were completely reworked. I mainly played a WHM in 1.0, so I am well-versed in how different the class is from how it was. Legacy players, even those with the best gear ever, are relearning their classes too... but the problem here is: when you start as a 'new' player, you start with a handful of abilities. You slowly work your way up. Legacy players with a level 50 character are just dumped into the game with a full bar of abilities that are drastically different from everything else they've used. They need to rework their strategies. I'm not going to deny that there are bad players, but I don't think it is strictly Legacy versus non-Legacy.

I think by making blanket statements like "people who get to 50 first tend to be better" is going to cause you a lot of problems in the future. If you are wondering, this is the 'elitist' attitude people are referring to. Now, I'm not going to say you are an elitist, but you have to understand that saying stuff like this isn't exactly amicable. People have lives and getting to 50 is not a real achievement. Many players have multiple 50s. The real achievement is what you do once you make it to 50.

Here is a better idea when you enter these dungeons: if someone is seriously struggling... offer advice. When you enter a dungeon, immediately ask if it is that person's first time. If you notice a healer just cure-spamming instead of using medica, offer friendly advice. You get more results with honey than vinegar. Use your skill and understanding for good, not bad. Don't post stuff like this on the forums. You're out of the gate after a few days, and you don't want to give yourself a bad reputation.

I thought we left the "Legacy QQ" threads on the beta forums?

But seriously, if you're having trouble with a bad tank, help them, educate them, most will be thankful, just drop and requeue if they refuse to learn. Don't forget in 1.0 PLD was a practically useless job and was levelled to stand around town in, they didn't tank anything because of the games balance issues, also WAR tanking changed significantly, some people are having to relearn their jobs from scratch.

If you want to exclude people from your dungeon runs, grab some friends and do it between yourselves, don't ask SE to exclude an entire group of people based on some bad experiences.

EDIT: Beaten, again >.>

What I find sad about this whole thing that people are lv50 2nd day after launch.

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Originally Posted by Yenn

We leveled to 50 quickly with the intent of having an easy time running dungeons for gear, because normally, the players who reach max level quickly are all good players.

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Actually no, it probably indicates the reverse .. you probably POWER-LEVELED using one of the well known borderline exploits, getting huge amounts of XP quickly most definitely does NOT make you a good player.

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Originally Posted by Yenn

We leveled to 50 quickly with the intent of having an easy time running dungeons for gear, because normally, the players who reach max level quickly are all good players.

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sorry but i gotta do this

http://spampylove.files.wordpress.co...2/pathetic.jpg

Yeah please add a kick option. The game isn't running smooth yet and often crashes. Just happened to me. Game crashed in the lodading screen, i was the healer couldn't connect with the server again.

I thought I'd seen most elitist comments already within the MMO community, but this one might take the price as the most ignorant one.

You base an idea on what you have seen during 2 days of live gameplay (not counting EA since it was bugged crap that not everyone could play). Have you thought about the thing that you might have leveled too fast and many are still enjoying the game? Or the thing that maybe many legacy players that actually have unlocked everything play with old friends/guildies and you just happen to run into a bad pugger here and there.

If you eliminate the legacy players from the cross queue, you will just get the first non-legacy bad thats waiting to get in.

I've speed leveled in many MMOs, but I wont in this, because there is no point. Maybe you should craft a little while others get to 50? Or you know, find a FC or another friend.

It's funny because most of the "skilled players" I've had actually leave dungeons end up being better for the party. The fact that you only mention Tanks and Healers is amusing to me because the crappiest players I've met have been DPS that have no concern for Enmity generation. The DPS that sit there and smack a mob that no one is attack and are surprised when they pull hate. Granted, I learned after I found out they're rampant in the Duty Finder that I'll just have to adjust to them and switch around targets more often than should be necessary. WHMs that, for some reason, don't sleep when, in the long run, it will save them MP. BLMs who don't sleep even.

I've been complimented in multiple instances, by Legacy and Non, on my tanking skills. Being a Legacy player, I don't get how think we're bad. I've seen horrible people that have been allowed to progress in the story because they got carried by better, more skilled players. There will always be a case of crappy players; that's an MMO inevitable.

The difference in my take on crappy players, and your take, is that I provide criticism regardless of their membership status and I don't post childish threads to sate my epeen charge. When you can tank as well as me than you can comment on my tanking. I can't wait for clowns like you to leave the game because you're "so good". Everyone's great in their own mind; I guarantee someone could point out something you could do better/are doing wrong.

There is a "Join group in Progress" button.

I think we should have a kick option, and it will replace with someone with that option checked. But you only get one kick per run.

Reason?

Last night, I did Halitali with 2 LS mates. GLA, CNJ, MNK(me). We needed a 4th, the often lfg DPS class.

We got a 4th, a LNC. We say in party chat, follow the tank, focus on his target, next target will be alphabetical after. (Dungeon mobs are labeled A-Z next to name)

First group of mobs, we focus the Doctore, she goes after the imps, forcing the healer to heal her, and the tank.

We explain, and use auto translate, that she should assist the tank.

Next fight, same thing, we focus one mob, she runs off to another.

Guivre fight, CNJ is refreshing protect, and she just runs in.

Through the whole dungeon, refused to be a 'team player' ended up dying 3 times running off without the group.

I would have gladly swapped this person for almost anyone else waiting outside.

Yes for kick option. Nothing to do with elitism but ill give you an example.

Yesterday I ran brayflox the entire run the tank (warrior) was having issues holding off me but we were making it through. We get to end boss, the dragon dropping pools that heal him. He never moves it...5 attempts in a row after explaining it to him repeatedly.

Instead of kicking him the group broke up. So waste over a hour of 3 people's time because one person is incompetent.

Yes to kick option.

"About 1/3 of our healers just mash Cure, without using Cure II or Medica to adapt to the situation."

If you think mashing Cure II and Medica is how you do a heals, congrats you are a bad healer.

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Originally Posted by Yenn

because normally, the players who reach max level quickly are all good players.

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That has to be the most idiotic thing I have read on these forums so far...

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Originally Posted by Yenn

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Due to legacy players, this is not the case. We're having a really hard time with legacy players who are 50, but extremely bad.

Roughly 2/3 of our tanks cannot hold threat off of the healer, let alone the DPS. They do not make any attempt to avoid damage. One of them kept using limit break on cooldown, not even during bosses.
About 1/3 of our healers just mash Cure, without using Cure II or Medica to adapt to the situation.
...

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It's a new system, the game just launched yesterday, jeez! There's players still dealing with the "1017-firewall" and are just reaching new content oppose to those w/o a job and have time to max out their level to 50. Please leave your personal issues off the forum.

LOL! Its like this game is only a couple of days old, and people are still learning, Legacy or Not! Not everyone who is playing (even the Legacy players) took part in Beta stages, or Early Access, some have just realized they can play this game with their old character, and it could be easy to judge, if they haven't had time to come to grips, they might be trying to rush through the story, so they can enjoy the stuff later on, but as with us all, still have to learn the game.

Rather then complaining about it, why not offer suggestions or advice.
If you have done this, and you got nothing but cussing back, then yeah I understand why you want a "kick" feature, or you could just deal with it? but don't go blaming "Legacy" players in general, we are not all that bad, I would gladly take any advice from anyone who has advice to offer.

Kick option should definitely added however it should be a group vote. Majority has to be in favor.

Second I see no reason for the Legacy hate. We are gonna have bad players all across the spectrum. I was running Vale last night 2 legacy and 2 non-legacy we did a great job clearing and learned the mechanics together. I would suggest being constructive with potentially bad parties. This is the only time you are going to ever play together so leave a good impression.

Explain to your tanks the finer points if you think they are lacking.

Explain to your dps classes that moves like Feint (20% slow) are awesome.

Explain to your healers how to do healer things lol ( Not my strongest class)

Always be polite and respectful. being nasty and derogatory is the fastest way to get people to not listen to you . ;)

so worst case scenario you get a subpar party for up to 90 minutes of your life. Make the best out of it.

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Originally Posted by Yenn

We're having a really hard time with legacy players who are 50, but extremely bad.

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I think I may understand where your frustration stems from but to do so I have to squint very very hard.

Hopefully you at least tried to give helpful advice to players you noticed making a mistake and didn't just rudely put everyone into a pot.

I have never seen anyone improve their gameplay through being banished and insulted and there is always a chance of getting matched up with that player again and he/she will be just as bad as before if you never bothered to help.

Respect and Assistance are a lot more fruitful in the longrun.

Back to the problem - being that there is no "kick" option:
I agree. There should be a solution for parties to adjust to a situation of a player being non-stop afk etc. this would be an improvement to gameplay.

I'm saying this as a first time MMOer.

They will NEVER add a kick option, and they shouldn't. That sort of thing is incredibly prejudice towards new players.

I'm pretty sure I would have been kicked out of my first attempt at Satasasha because there were a couple of instances where I did NOT tank well. But I learned. The peeps I played with seemed pretty understanding and helped me through it---even though we were all the same level the others came off as very experienced. So I appreciated it.

Multiple people have made the suggestion. If you want to play with "experienced" people, then make a free company and be done with it. Don't rely on the Duty Finder. If you go into something randomly, recognize that you will get random kinds of players. Don't hate. Help.

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Originally Posted by KeithXK

I'm saying this as a first time MMOer.

They will NEVER add a kick option, and they shouldn't. That sort of thing is incredibly prejudice towards new players.

I'm pretty sure I would have been kicked out of my first attempt at Satasasha because there were a couple of instances where I did NOT tank well. But I learned. The peeps I played with seemed pretty understanding and helped me through it---even though we were all the same level the others came off as very experienced. So I appreciated it.

Multiple people have made the suggestion. If you want to play with "experienced" people, then make a free company and be done with it. Don't rely on the Duty Finder. If you go into something randomly, recognize that you will get random kinds of players. Don't hate. Help.

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Not everyone wants the kick option to find a better player. I would like to have it for when somebody goes afk without saying anything, like they had an emergency at home and couldnt log off. In that case you would have a group vote where the other 3 would have to vote kick to actually remove the player.
Then somebody that has wanted to join could get in. I play with a lot of players that are not good yet, but almost always you just give them the tip that they are missing and they catch on right away. I would like to be able to remove a player if everyone agrees that they cannot move on without a replacement though.

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Originally Posted by Darkrotor

Not everyone wants the kick option to find a better player. I would like to have it for when somebody goes afk without saying anything, like they had an emergency at home and couldnt log off. In that case you would have a group vote where the other 3 would have to vote kick to actually remove the player.
Then somebody that has wanted to join could get in. I play with a lot of players that are not good yet, but almost always you just give them the tip that they are missing and they catch on right away. I would like to be able to remove a player if everyone agrees that they cannot move on without a replacement though.

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Perhaps. That might be better served by an automatic idle-out though. If someone is idle for 10 to 15 min they're automatically logged off. That might be too long for a dungeon though. Maybe an overall auto-out of 20 min, but in instances and dungeons an auto-out of 5 min.

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Originally Posted by KeithXK

I\\'m saying this as a first time MMOer.

They will NEVER add a kick option, and they shouldn\\'t. That sort of thing is incredibly prejudice towards new players.

I\\'m pretty sure I would have been kicked out of my first attempt at Satasasha because there were a couple of instances where I did NOT tank well. But I learned. The peeps I played with seemed pretty understanding and helped me through it---even though we were all the same level the others came off as very experienced. So I appreciated it.

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What about players who refuse to listen or just are failing every attempt after being explained repeatedly what to do? These are the situations I want it for. When your group has not been progressing for a long period because of one person who refuses to learn.

It makes no sense for the other 3 people on the group to have to scrap a run because of one person

People like that probably aren't going to keep playing the game that long anyway.

Just saw a post at the Tank forums, I'm a Warrior 50 and noob. So, it kinda makes sense...
There should be some sort of filter, or at least a requirement that the previous dungeons had been done, so you can do the next, or something like that...
That would at least minimize these problems...

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

What about players who refuse to listen or just are failing every attempt after being explained repeatedly what to do? These are the situations I want it for. When your group has not been progressing for a long period because of one person who refuses to learn.

It makes no sense for the other 3 people on the group to have to scrap a run because of one person

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Can there ever be any algorithms in place to protect the newbie who is willing to learn and improve, but at the same time protect groups from the players who get defensive and refuse to listen?

What is this... I don't even...

First, leveling quickly doesn't mean you are good, it means you have hilarious amounts of free time and didn't take the time to actually enjoy the game. You just chugged through the levels as quickly as possible.

Second, no one cares. You are just an elitist ass. You can be good at a game without being a dick about it. Learn some decorum.

Third, why don't you try helping them, and improving the game experience for the whole community rather than bitching them out, then coming to the forums to cry like a child about how you are so awesome, but everyone else sucks, so you deserve to be placed in a special queue free of bads/legacy players.

Yeah I'm still wondering why the OP is thinking that fast to level equals good at the game.

All it means is that you are a power gamer that doesnt care about the story one bit or in the case of XIV, getting all the goody complimentary skills to go with your main job. Like getting the other 2 classes to 34 so you have all the options open for you to optimize your job. That might be one of the problems they have. Maybe they are a bit too trigger happy and wont let the tank grab aggro before they go pew pew pew. Afterall, the game is designed around a 2.5 GCD, which means that if the tanks AoE miss one target or the CCed target gets hit, it has alot more impact here compared to a 1.5 GCD game.

Be kind to your tank, let him get aggro.