? for experienced tankers....

I am curious about why, when tanking, using shield lob to draw/arggo mobs and following with flash periodically base on some of the attack methods I have seen list, do not keep the mobs on the tank. If any can advise?

I have played a good many dungeons with my good mate and he tanks, but no matter how often he attempts to draw the mob, enemies will still leave to attack the CNJ's & THM's. Are we missing something or is this a staple until you get later skills?

We are just looking to play the best we can and for the benefit of the party. Considering it is our first MMO, we really would appreciate any thoughts.

I'm not that experienced in tanking in FFXIV, but this sounds like a problem I encounter very often where both dps are just not attacking the same target. If your friend is playing a gladiator, it will be nigh impossible to keep enmity on all the mobs due to the lack of any real AOE damage abilities.

Marking the target that the dps should attack could help here and then tank that target while keeping the other mobs off the healer by using flash. Also watch the enmity levels: Once you got enough enmity on the target you can switch targets around a bit to increase threat on all the mobs.

Unfortunately a lot of dps don't watch their enmity levels and won't stop dps'ing even if they clearly got aggro. In that case the only thing you can do is ask nicely if they can watch their dps a bit and slow down. If they don't there's not much you can do except hope that no one dies. ;)

I am the DPS when we raid and I watch my enmity on all the mobs, as well as attacking the intended target. I will bounce around to keep from getting high enmity when needed, but I notice a lot that healers that heal "all the time" no matter what, pull mobs very quickly. I am assuming this is because they can gain enmity quick with healing. I am wondering if, considering, he does not yet have "Rage of Halone", that will help dramatically. I see that a lot of people recommend that in the rotation.

It will be a learning experience to say the least and I hope between searching the forums and people posting to this thread will help us grow in the Erozea raiding!

I'm no expert in Glad tanking because I play a maurauder.
But generally my guildmades told me that aoe agro seems to be a big problem in the early levels with glads. They where running some instances on Sunday with a glad tank and although he was playing alright, could not keep aggro on trash pulls.
Yesterday we did the same dungeons with myself tanking and I have never lost any aggro during all 3 dungeon runs.

What I observed is that specially archers and pugilist dish out some heavy dps in the their 20's and aggro is sometimes always on the verge of switching.
Also make sure your group healer does not use ae heals. This seems to draw mega agrro in FFXIV.

I'm currently playing Gladiator and I always mark what I'm attacking, if the DPS aren't attacking the mark, you let them know. As long as everyone is cooperating you should be OK. Don't be scared to give the party reasonable commands on what you want done.

AOE heals are a big threat because they heal everyone and any overhealing is threat towards the enemies.

As long as you mark and the DPS follows the mark I have been able to keep aggro pretty well. I generally shield lob the #1 target, flash the whole group, than do a combo on the #1 target followed by another flash. At that point you should have solid aggro. Just keep comboing and flashing on occasion and it should be fine. That said, if a DPS is not following the marks or if the healer starts healing before the flash goes off that is when you may start having issues. Overhealing does count as threat here, so a healer should wait for the first heal until aggro is established.

yeah early game gladiator enmity generation is pretty bad. In the first few instances if felt like if i moved off the primary target i would lose control of the mob... so any dps on the off target would result in losing both. It gets better in the mid 20s. so as long as there isn't a complete split on dps and the healer doesnt spam aoe heals the occasional flash holds the other targets pretty well.

Also, if the tank has say three mobs he/she is dealing with, marked 1 2 and 3, there is nothing preventing him or her from switching targets mid-fight if worried about keeping threat.

Shield lob #1, collect mobs, Flash, Fast Blade/Savage #1, Flash again, then switch to #2 and Rage of Halone (if he has it). If not, switch to #2 and Savage Blade the mob... it doesn't require Fast Blade for the enmity effect. Then switch to #3 and do the same. Finally, switch back to #1 and finish him off.

It takes more work, but if you have a spammy, overhealing CNJ in the group, you're going to lose mobs unless you're kind of really paying attention. Do this rotation will prevent mob-loss, or at least has for me.

As for losing hate to DPS, I don't know about that, but the same tactic should work. If a DPS is on the same target as the GLD, and not attacking different ones, I don't think the GLD should rly ever risk lose hate unless it's on a drawn out boss fight.

Appreciate all the advice! Good stuff that will be very helpful after work!

Paladin
Shield Lob T1 > Flash > Fast Blade > Flash > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone > Fast Blade > Flash

This gets me enough enmity on any group of 3 or more to hold out against THM/BLM and DD stragglers.

BLM is always hungry too.

On packs of 3 + Here's what I do. And i rarely lose hate


I rarely mark - And i very much dislike sleep so I normally ask for it not to be used.


[Shield Lob] My intended 1st target to pull the pack. Until the pack clumps up I do nothing and wait.

As soon as they are in range, I [Flash] and throw 1 full cycle of [Fast Blade] [ Savage Blade ] and [Rage of Halone] On the monster I originally [Shield Lobbed]

After that cycle is complete, I never touch monster [A] again, It should be killed fairly quick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndigoHawk

If a DPS switches targets, the DPS may take aggro from an enemy that the GLD is not focusing on. That's difficult for the GLD. GLD keep medium aggro on a group of enemies (enough to keep things off the healer and to handle an occasional DPS AoE) and high aggro on one target. If there is high aggro on multiple targets, the GLD may completely lose control of the situation.

---

This is why I do this

I [Flash] Again, and I switch between targets for every move. [Fast Blade] Monster B, [Savage Blade] Monster C, [Rage of Halone] back to Monster B. And the opposite on the way back.


If you lose threat, A quick [Provoke] followed by an extra flash locks the aggro. I don't really spam it too often. Twice per pull at best


This is all for trash mobs, anything that poses significant danger, Bee's in The Sunken Temple, I never split DPS. I focus them down.

Playing this style allows my FC's THMS to aoe non stop all out every run

tanked the first 3 dungeons today didn't have that much trouble keeping the mobs on me, except in the last dungeon where the lancer kept going for the mob that wasn't my main target and unleashing everything on it. but even then switching targets and doing a shield lob and going back to the main target solved that problem.

Bouncing to different targets makes things harder for a GLD tank. Stay on the GLD's target. A GLD shouldn't lose single target aggro, but it's better to lose a single enemy than the entire group. If you're a DPS and you take aggro and start taking too much damage, stop attacking. Let the GLD regain control. (If the GLD keeps losing single target aggro, they may need to check that their rotation is focused on high single target threat with flash thrown in to maintain group aggro.)

If a DPS switches targets, the DPS may take aggro from an enemy that the GLD is not focusing on. That's difficult for the GLD. GLD keep medium aggro on a group of enemies (enough to keep things off the healer and to handle an occasional DPS AoE) and high aggro on one target. If there is high aggro on multiple targets, the GLD may completely lose control of the situation.

(I guess since we have daily posting limits we just edit our posts ...)

SomeFatGalka describes a good rotation that solves GLD group aggro starting at level 26 with Rage of Halone. That rotation lets the GLD apply single target threat on 2 out of 3 hits. Note he doesn't apply the rotation to the same enemy. Distributing the rotation across enemies lets the GLD keep up group aggro without spamming Flash.

So, if you're leveling with a GLD friend, you may eventually be able to use more AoEs and not be as careful targeting the GLD's target. Starting out, though, keep it simple. Go easy on the AoEs, attack the GLD's main target (which they usually indicate with their opening shield lob), ease off if you're taking aggro, and follow their lead defeating enemies from weakest to strongest.

DD that don't attack my first selected target from the mob I pulled or a healer healing me at full hp has been my issue. Did my first run of Copperbell Mines and was perfect imo. DD on my selected target and healer not spamming made it the easiest dungeon I have tanked so far. But as a Glad so far when DDs are on different targets its rough. I hate I need to hit shield lob 2-3 times to pull one add while keeping up Flash on the other 2. But other than that like a few have said, just let the group know if they don't. There are a few mindless DDs in the world lol.

Honestly I wish Flash's pull was a lil type more stronger, but tanking is pretty fun :) and I'm needed so re-running a few dungeons has helped me gather better rotations which most have posted here already.

So much good information! Thanks, helps a newbie to MMO's out greatly! Loving FF14, gonna be around for many years in Eorzea!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndigoHawk

SomeFatGalka describes a good rotation that solves GLD group aggro starting at level 26 with Rage of Halone. That rotation lets the GLD apply single target threat on 2 out of 3 hits. Note he doesn't apply the rotation to the same enemy. Distributing the rotation across enemies lets the GLD keep up group aggro without spamming Flash.

---

I'm wondering.. Is there a problem with using Flash too often? As far as I know mobs do not build resistance to it. I'm curious because you made it sound (to me) like overusing Flash is a really bad thing. How often should one use it?

Nice post (and thread) by the way :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kenka

I'm wondering.. Is there a problem with using Flash too often? As far as I know mobs do not build resistance to it. I'm curious because you made it sound (to me) like overusing Flash is a really bad thing. How often should one use it?

Nice post (and thread) by the way :D

---

I think the emphasis was that the aggro was good enough that you didn't have to rely on flash spam as much, rather than implying that spamming flash was bad. You probably still want to spam flash. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mang

I think the emphasis was that the aggro was good enough that you didn't have to rely on flash spam as much, rather than implying that spamming flash was bad. You probably still want to spam flash. :p

---

No spamming Flash can be a bad thing. Drains your mp quick so when you actually need it you won't have it. And yes we have Riot Blade but using it causes you to lose even more emnity since you aren't using savage blade and rage of halone. Get used to target switching because the higher you go the less and less Flash is even worth using outside of the initial pull.

With all the SMNs coming up Flash is even more useless since it won't hold threat over their dots either. That includes SCH that dot up every mob as well. Did Cutter's Cry last night with a SMN and SCH, awesome dps in that group but by the time the first mob was dead the other 2 were at half health from the dots. If I had tried to hold that using only Flash there would be no way I could have

Give a fish vs. teach to fish... Let's see if I can go the 2nd route (plenty of other good replies for the 1st)

I've played tank in a lot of MMOs and Warrior so far to 39 here in FF14. It all seems to follow the same general mechanic:

Each enemy has a list of "agro" a.k.a. "enmity" scores. Highest score has that enemies attention, and they change rapidly. For example:
Tank: 10000
DPS1: 5500
DPS2: 7500
Healer: 8000

You can see this in the agro bars in the UI easily, they just convert it to a % where 100% is the highest enmity score at the time. So in the above example: Tank=100%, DPS1=55%, DPS2=75%, Healer=80% is what everyone sees on their screen.

These numbers come from the enemy observing you doing something. For example, and the numbers here are totally not real:
"Tank hit me for 100 dmg, so +100 to Tank's score."
"DPS1 hit me for 150 dmg, so +150 to DPS1's score."
"Tank hit me with additional enmity ability for 100 dmg, so +200 to Tank's score." (x2 modifier)
"Healer healed my enemy for 200 health, so +150 to Healer's score." (x0.75 modifier)
"Tank hit my friend, so +1 to Tank's score." (in a pack of trash mobs, add comes running too but any hit from someone else takes agro)

So if you think about who is doing what to which NPC, you can guesstimate and understand why nearly every agro read is the way it is.

Also - and I haven't seen it in FF14 yet, but in other games - I've seen enemies coded to do stuff to 2nd person on the agro list, last person on list, etc. If you see stuff happening to certain people, this might help to understand why - and thus use it to your advantage.