items are boring..

No on hit effects and no real gearing besides 1 stat makes it boring as heck. No chance for blah blah blah. No increase to certain spells, extra effects. Atleast 1.0 had refresh , on hit effects and other stuff, yet 2.0 doesnt

Working as intended. Sadly

ya they are as lame as they get... i cant understand how they thought this was ok. low standards and unacceptable.

Indeed. Once the new MMORPG smell wears off, this will be one of the biggest complaints. People do love their loot in MMORPG and this loot is dry and stale. If Diablo III got blasted for the kind of loot it had, imagine what the reaction would have been if every update was "Stat+1", "VIT/PIE +1", and two of the following: "Acc+1", "Skill/Speed Speed+1", or "Determination+1". Doesn't matter if it is a quest reward from a level 5 quest or Artifact Armor or what Bahamut drops. Particularly when most actions in the game are very straight forward too.

I actually expect the combat system from gear to classes to get a remark by this time next year. It has no room for creativity and this will make people bored.

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Originally Posted by Riposte

Diablo III got blasted for the kind of loot it had, imagine what the reaction would have been if every update was "Stat+1", "VIT/PIE +1", and two of the following: "Acc+1", "Skill/Speed Speed+1", or "Determination+1". Doesn't matter if it is a quest reward from a level 5 quest or Artifact Armor or what Bahamut drops. Particularly when most actions in the game are very straight forward too.

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I completely agree, considering diablo 3 is having to do a big itemization overhaul to make things more interesting, I would not be surprised if this game has to do something eventually too. I would say boring items & actions are my current biggest gripes about this game.

"This items ilvl is 65, my old ones was ilvl 60, I am going to use my new ilvl 65 item in every situation"

That's gearing in 2.0, very boring, I miss choices and decisions and thinking and theorycrafting and mathing gear.

Agreed. :\

people will jump ship in months if they don't do something. Just looking different isn't enough. it has to have a bigger effect. Their reply was "it was not needed with the new system" Depth is ALWAYS needed. we love to try new things and build differently

Couldn't agree more.

I agree. I just can't justify such a decision by SE. Different gear with unique effects is a simple to way to add depth into a game ! Really... maybe it's just me, but I'm not excited by getting any loot since our AF is basically starter gear +200.

And I'm not much of a "loot guy..."

Apparently right now things look like vanity slots with stats for your preferred class/job. I do have to agree that is very lame. I would like to see stats they had in 1.0 for certain gear. Example given is WHM used to have AF that "boosted" certain abilities specific for WHM. WAR had AF that helped lower the cooldown of an ability. Etcetera. What happened to this?

pretty much my view on the subject. the most interesting thing about equipment is seeing which stat will go up from the HQ version of it:
this one raised spell speed. this one raised all the stats, this one seemed to only raise the defense and magic defense...(i like making HQ versions of my gear because the crafting, while rather dumbed down from 1.0 remains interesting and fun...least when you get to higher levels and have more skills and cross class skills. )
SE: there is nothing wrong with complex gear. some people may baulk at a complicated system in favour of "just make it incrementally better than the last set plz" but there are many who are fine with a piece of gear that gives them a +9 against ogres. or a piece of gear that lets them run slightly faster or use magic attacks if they are a non-magic users, or which gives some odd arcane bonus which seems utterly useless until combined with another piece with another arcane useless bonus to make it god incarnate.

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Originally Posted by Fourtoes

Apparently right now things look like vanity slots with stats for your preferred class/job. I do have to agree that is very lame. I would like to see stats they had in 1.0 for certain gear. Example given is WHM used to have AF that "boosted" certain abilities specific for WHM. WAR had AF that helped lower the cooldown of an ability. Etcetera. What happened to this?

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the idea SE has right now, whether correct or not i don't know nor particularly care, is that people are retarded. and these retards want something simple, they want fewer choices because that's just too much thinking for their little retard brains. so they boil it down til they have the bare bones needed to say "wear this for your class"

at least they should add some stats to the minnions an extra +2 str, dex, etc.. cuz i dont see the point to get them.

FFXIV is balanced for low stats where 1 simple stat increase actually makes a difference. FFXI was the same way. When I left FFXI at the end of cop an item that gave +7 to all stats was literally best in slot (Matt's Cap)...

An item doesn't need to have +100 AGI, +50 Attack Speed etc for it to be epic. What makes an item epic is the work it took to acquire it. Why do people attribute tons of stats to an item being good?

This game will have class specific armor sets that will look awesome. It will have really nice weapons. But there not going to be freebies and it's not a game where you go "oh, a new green, it's better than my old green!".

I still stat compare, but instead of stat comparing 100agi and 50attack speed vs 110 agi and 10 attack power I'm comparing -1 def and +2vit to +5 def. This isn't going to be a game where you have 20,000 HP as a tank.... This game deals with small numbers, which I think it the best. It's harder to balance a game with giant numbers than with small numbers.

And just comparing this game to FFXI I think it's going to be a game where you actually have to bust your tail to get the best stuff. But when you do, it's a great feeling when you acquire them. Like acquiring Kraken's Club in FFXI, Matt's Cap, Dalmaticus, etc etc.

Also, spells and spell effect modifiers... The stats are the spell effect modifiers. 1 point in int translates to % increase in dmg on spells... You get skill points as you level + int on gear as you find it.

I guess to each their own. I personally prefer this model over wow's 200+ stat modifiers. Wow was getting crazy out of hand.... I like it in FFXI where if I had > 2000 hp I was awesome!!

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Originally Posted by DeLaRosa

at least they should add some stats to the minnions an extra +2 str, dex, etc.. cuz i dont see the point to get them.

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they don't really HAVE a point. they are vanity things, something to show off some sort of status.(and i'm totally bitter because i havent gotten my crafting up to a level to make some of them yet. i see the little buggers running about and think "gah i have like 7 levels before i can make that")

course most things in MMOs are like that, the functional parts of equipment, those are just there because they are needed to keep you moving through the game. when vanity slots come: good lord.
but most things in MMOs boil down to "i have this and you don't" (also why so many new users hate legacy users, because the legacy users have things the new users don't)

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Originally Posted by Ryios

FFXIV is balanced for low stats where 1 simple stat increase actually makes a difference. FFXI was the same way. When I left FFXI at the end of cop an item that gave +7 to all stats was literally best in slot (Matt's Cap)

An item doesn't need to have +100 AGI, +50 Attack Speed etc for it to be epic. Why do people attribute tons of stats to an item being good?

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I don't think the issue being discussed is the quantity of any particular stat, but the variety. Items with interesting and unique perks like "Deals 9 additional damage to goblins" or "Your Rampart now also reduces damage taken by party members by 2%" or the like are completely missing thus far. Which makes gearing a pretty simple routine. Just find the stats that are the best for your class and choose whichever gear has the most of them. That's it. Not much room for personal preference or play style. I am loving FFXIV, but this is defiantly high on my list as far as needed changes.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

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Did you even read it?
Seems like you just came in and posted nonsense without actually reading

Have you tried the Materia system?

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Originally Posted by Ryios

FFXIV is balanced for low stats where 1 simple stat increase actually makes a difference. FFXI was the same way. When I left FFXI at the end of cop an item that gave +7 to all stats was literally best in slot (Matt's Cap)...


And just comparing this game to FFXI I think it's going to be a game where you actually have to bust your tail to get the best stuff. But when you do, it's a great feeling when you acquire them. Like acquiring Kraken's Club in FFXI, Matt's Cap, Dalmaticus, etc etc.

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Yeah, like some of us busted our tails in 1.0 to get the White Raven earrings and we felt great after the work we put in to get them and then SE turned them into crap as we found out when we got our 1.0 chars back in phase 3.
The gear will be worth it so long as SE doesn't pull that on us again.

I assume most of you are talking about the stat wise of gear and not the looks?

They have some pretty neat looking weapons to get:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ypc-nVkRp4

Also gear has stats to it, unless I'm missing something. It's just lower numbers rather then your usual +100attack, +50 dex + + + stuff.

Which makes is MUCH easier to balance around and tweak this and that.

should of left the gear with the system thats was in 1.0. it had the extras on them like FFXI.
weapons droped there additional effects & gear dropped it enhancing effects in 2.0.

AF went from nice to pointless when you find higher level gear, now they have lv50 relic gear you can buy once they lets us get that currency and once again it only has higher stats and does nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Have you tried the Materia system?

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The materia system is nothing but the same stats with a cap on how much of that stat you can put depending on the items ilvl. It's the same thing. Put as much str/int/dex/vit/mnd until you can't anymore, then put determ/piety. No thought.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

The materia system is nothing but the same stats with a cap on how much of that stat you can put depending on the items ilvl. It's the same thing. Put as much str/int/dex/vit/mnd until you can't anymore, then put determ/piety. No thought.

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I'm sorry but MMORPGs are not for you if you want cool stats Diablo 2 style.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

The materia system is nothing but the same stats with a cap on how much of that stat you can put depending on the items ilvl. It's the same thing. Put as much str/int/dex/vit/mnd until you can't anymore, then put determ/piety. No thought.

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I wish we had elemental damage again...

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Originally Posted by Ryios

(Cut for length)

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The issue wasn't the stat amounts at all. it's that every single item in the game, including the really late-game stuff ONLY HAS STAT BONUSES! no "adds refresh" or "decreases cooldown on skill xxxxxx", nothing interesting whatsoever. It's all "Strength +##"

It's a terrible decision and one of the first things I personally noticed when looking through endgame gear and thinking to myself: "What the hell? Not even extra fire damage on ifrit weapons? No special bonuses on AF gear liks they had in XI and 1.0? What's this boring sh*t about?!"

This is to me, deeply disturbing and I for one hope that they add some "spice" to the gear in a patch real soon cause this is going to get real stale, real fast... I feel no need whatsoever to pursue gear at this moment in the game other than "ooh that's kinda cool looking"...

elemental dmg had been remove from game, Yoshi had said that sometime ago. And I am fine with the way gear are, because I feel that I can customeize my gear depend on my need and preference

Strength – Strength Materia
Dexterity - Dexterity Materia
Vitality - Vitality Materia
Intelligence - Intelligence Materia
Mind - Mind Materia
Piety - Piety Materia

Accuracy - Heavens’ Eye Materia
Critical Hit Rate – Savage Aim Materia
Determination – Savage Might Materia
Parry – Battledance Materia

Spell Speed – Quicktongue Materia
Skill Speed – Quickarm Materia

Max CP – Craftsmans’ Cunning Materia
Craftsmanship – Craftsmans’ Competence Materia
Control – Craftsmans’ Command Materia

Source: www.ffxivguild.com

there are more than enough to customize your current gear in this early version

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

there are more than enough to customize your current gear in this early version

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There really isn't. Most materia is useless for any one job or class and the few exceptions will fall to the wayside unless someone tries for a 4-meld (on something that doesn't take two spots). Don't forget crafting gear exists to bridge you between raid loot in the first place, anyway (which doesn't make much sense considering most loot is only 5~ item levels apart, but we'll see how that works). I think Gladiator/Paladin is the only class with some real options because of shield mechanics and being melee-casters, but those options will probably make you suck - e.g. DEX, MND, PIE (really, cure for them just sucks lol).

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Originally Posted by Nephenee

I'm sorry but MMORPGs are not for you if you want cool stats Diablo 2 style.

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FFXI and FF14 1.0 had fun stats.

Are they not MMO's?

Why do MMO's need boring loot? They don't, your brain just thinks they do because every MMO you've played has had boring loot.

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Strength – Strength Materia
Dexterity - Dexterity Materia
Vitality - Vitality Materia
Intelligence - Intelligence Materia
Mind - Mind Materia
Piety - Piety Materia

Accuracy - Heavens’ Eye Materia
Critical Hit Rate – Savage Aim Materia
Determination – Savage Might Materia
Parry – Battledance Materia

Spell Speed – Quicktongue Materia
Skill Speed – Quickarm Materia

Max CP – Craftsmans’ Cunning Materia
Craftsmanship – Craftsmans’ Competence Materia
Control – Craftsmans’ Command Materia

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That isn't customization, it's identical to the stats you get on gear already. Main stat(str/dex/mnd/int) sub stat(determ/piety/crit/parry/speed).

You'll put main stat in your armor until it's maxed, then put a combination of secondary stat materia until they are maxed. No customization, materia is still cool but the stats on materia should be unique.

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The problem is... there are people who believe that if they dont need to use a scientific calculator to determine if that new helm that dropped is an upgrade, the loot is boring. Im sorry you cant use your nifty pie chart skills and your ability to solve complex algebraic algorithms cant be applied to this game. Its like none of people that are complaining ever realized, "Less is more". The reason loot is "boring" due to the fact that you will have playing with alot of different people with alot of different classes. Its going to suck to do that dungeon if gear dropped that no one will ever be able to use because that one class/job is completely unpopular.

Can you imagine the feeling of seeing an awesome new chest piece drop only to see "Increases Stealth for Fisherman by 5 seconds." Yeah, there will be alot of very unhappy people then, unless by some miracle you have someone who just loves to find new fishing spots.

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I don't see how that's different than a crafting/gathering item dropping with gatherering/perception. Also, I'm pretty sure crafting/gathering items can't drop from dungeons. Yoshida also won't make "useless classes".

The problem is... there are people who believe that if they dont need to use a scientific calculator to determine if that new helm that dropped is an upgrade, the loot is boring. Im sorry you cant use your nifty pie chart skills and your ability to solve complex algebraic algorithms cant be applied to this game. Its like none of people that are complaining ever realized, "Less is more". The reason loot is "boring" due to the fact that you will have playing with alot of different people with alot of different classes. Its going to suck to do that dungeon if gear dropped that no one will ever be able to use because that one class/job is completely unpopular.

Can you imagine the feeling of seeing an awesome new chest piece drop only to see "Increases Stealth for Fisherman by 5 seconds." Yeah, there will be alot of very unhappy people then, unless by some miracle you have someone who just loves to find new fishing spots.

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Originally Posted by Canopia

The problem is... there are people who believe that if they dont need to use a scientific calculator to determine if that new helm that dropped is an upgrade, the loot is boring. Im sorry you cant use your nifty pie chart skills and your ability to solve complex algebraic algorithms cant be applied to this game.

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...what? How is making gear less raw-stats based making it more susceptible to this? Right now that game is perfect for what you are describing and people would rather have gear growth be more interesting than that.

Also, fisherman gear...?

What?

What people in thread are referring to are procs. Procs, for the uneducated, are special things that happen randomly when you perform an action while holding or using the item endowed with the proc. like the random 6 extra hits from that one hammer in ffxi. COOL SHIT!

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Originally Posted by berguli

What people in thread are referring to are procs. Procs, for the uneducated, are special things that happen randomly when you perform an action while holding or using the item endowed with the proc. like the random 6 extra hits from that one hammer in ffxi. COOL SHIT!

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Not only procs, but also additional effects. Something on the lines of:

Additional Effect: Cure Potency +10%
Additional Effect: Refresh
Additional Effect: Damage increased against undead

Yoshi doesn't want players to be stressed. For many MMORPG players these days, thinking AT ALL is very stressful. Dumbing down the game helps keep that stress under control. Aren't you glad MMORPGs are designed for people who can't handle the complexity of MMORPGs, or basic math, or basic thinking these days? It's spiffy.

I don't think the loot system is the only thing that people will be questioning ones the new game shine wears off. This game is all around simplistic. Games don't have to be ridiculously complex to be enjoyable (got Europa universalis for that ;) but I do think they need to engage your mind SOMEWHAT or they are just boring exercises and time sink about on par with watching TV.

inb4 additional effects will be added with patch 2.1
not holding my breath though, because balancing those will be hard

While I would also like to have more varied stats, I completely understand the resoning behind those simple stats. They don't want to make any job stand out. They don't want to make anything unique because they don't want people preferring x class over y class because it has access to z enhancement granted by gear. They also don't want the community to exclude people because they don't have that super item that gives regain +10.

I certainly hope it will change with time though, and that eventually we get to see special gear, but since those things can be a nightmare to balance, I'd rather see them working on more urgent things first, such as server stability. Adding special gear sets can wait for an expansion.

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Originally Posted by Drakan

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Incorrect. Classes will stand out regardless. they think players are dumb, thats why everything is simple.

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Originally Posted by Manafont

Incorrect. Classes will stand out regardless. they think players are dumb, thats why everything is simple.

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They don't stand out at all. As long as you have a CNJ to sleep, the THM and the ACN are just magic DPS, just as MNK and DRG are melee DPS, I don't see ANY reason to take a MNK over a DRG, or a DRG over a MNK, I don't see ANY reason to take a MRD over a GLA or a GLA over a MRD. Yes, they do have different mechanics, but in the end, they are made to be very equivalent.

Now if they add bonuses that enhance bloodbath, they need to make a bonus that will enhance gladiator EXACTLY as much as that bloodbath enhancement enhanced marauder. It is a lot more difficult to balance than giving 1 VIT, which will help both.

Would creating materia that gives miscellaneous effects address this issue? We get even more control over item customization this way, and it makes crafting even more useful.

I agree about the lack of interesting stats on items, especially after playing GW2 recently, some of the items there can be imbued with some quite interesting abilities.

I also find the stat boosts quite low, for example;
I'm currently wearing level 16 gloves that provide +2 INT
A quest here provides a reward of level 41 gloves with +5 INT
25 levels later and the stats only increase by +3, on average we seem to be looking at +1 per 10 levels

It doesn't give much of an incentive to upgrade gear often.