Tanking - Needing advice (GLD)

Guys, I'm having trouble when it comes to hold the enminity when there's an archer in the party. When I'm level cap'd (low level instances/duties) I loss some enminity control skills. Even though I watch out the enminity -meter, it's hard for me to keep the treat and hold those monsters. I've been thinking in getting some cross-class Marauder hate control skills (Since that class have some low level useful skills), what do you think?

My usual rotation: Flash -> Flash -> Shield Lob (if available - Main target) Flash Blade -> Savage Blade (Second target) and usually Riot Blade to recover some MP.

My buddy duo's with me and he's an ARC. First, be kind and inform party of enmity bars if they are unaware. This helps a lot. As for rotations:

Single Target: <engage> SL > SL <start rotation> FB --> Savage, Flash every other FB>Savage rotation, Riot only if low on MP or if far ahead on enmity meter for extra dmg

Groups: <charging engage> SL <main target> Flash, Flash, FB --> Savage <main target> repeat 2-3x to have solid hold, FB <main> into Savage on adds throwing a Flash every other.

Toss in shield bash if ARC is about to pass you to give you a few seconds to get back in the enmity race. I don't have any problems with these rotations. If the DPS just goes nuts at this lvl with disregard for enmity, well they may end up learning the hard way about watching the enmity bar... Marking and focusing your target also helps, and you can suggest they poke adds that they have no/low threat on to give you a second to hop ahead on the main target.

What I do is Mark the targets 1 2 and 3 > Shield Lob 1 > run to them and Flash > Main Enmity combo twice on Mob 1 > Flash > Combo again > When Mob 1 is dead, immidiatly do 2 combos on 2 > Flash

As long as the ARC, or any DPS for that matter, follow the targets, You can hold hate fairly easily

Enmity control is the responsibility of the entire party, not just the tank. The tank should be doing everything they can to hold hate, but if someone is strong enough to pull hate from the tank, then they need to ease up a little bit if they're making things hectic for the healer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meicyn

Enmity control is the responsibility of the entire party, not just the tank. The tank should be doing everything they can to hold hate, but if someone is strong enough to pull hate from the tank, then they need to ease up a little bit if they're making things hectic for the healer.

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I'd prefer roudy DPS (ONLY if they follow the f***ing signs!), It keeps me looking at the enmity meters and puts pressure on myself. It makes me feel like I'm getting better

I playing PLD , glad u going this path too :) in low istances & even in high (i tried Dzemael , all same worked perfect) i usually run in , ennmies aggroing me (can be single mob also) then i open with flash to grab mobs , then blade combos/chains (they little different depend lv instance lv15~20 u can 2 chain Fast Blade->Savage Blade or Fast Blade->Riot Blade but 2nd one i rarely useing because rarely need MP and also after Riot blade chain ends . 30+ 3 chain combo Fast Blade->Savage Blade->Rage of Halone . @ lv 45~50 u still have this 3 chains but have more variety to add non combo Weapon skills like Fast Blade->Savage Blade->Rage of Halone->Spirits Within->Circle of Scorn , last 2 is not in chain but u can add this so u do 5 chain WS.)
Between Chains sometime can use Flash , but not too often because no need , you can try use 4~5 chains and only then flash :)

Also again depend on lv we have great Job Abilities ->
->Low instances only few ones is more than enough. Fight or Flight JA that will give you 30% more physical damage !! Convalescence - give you +20% of HP restored ! which means WHM in party will have 20% less job . And Provoke we get that @ lv 22 can use that inbetween chains also , especially on Bosses :)
-> Mid~high we have more interesting JA to use :D . Sentinel - damage taken -30% + gain enemity ! Bulwark - +60% block rate (life saver). Sword Oath/Shield Oath that you will rotate depend of situation or +50 to auto att (which means u will have less hate loss) or -20%more damage taken (but DPS will lowered 20% also)
welp now about Shield Weapon Skills -> Shield Bash can use if need stun really or if need win +1~2 sec for WHM can cure or etc...
Shield Lob i was found is just waste of combo/chain also damage not that high to bother , same for Shield swipe ; ;

Thanks for your replies, guys!!!

Being a tank is complicated, often you must assume the role of a leader but people sometimes don't listen. It's worse when they think is a great idea to target different monsters, so I've to check every monster emnity watching to not lossing it. DPS...

@Dcyn:

Thanks for those rotations, I'll be checking them in my next instance (If I'm able to log in). At low levels, my emnity nemesis is the Topaz Carbuncle, so the single target rotation will be pretty useful for that purpose. So, I must assure the hate of the main mob and then "share" some emnity to the adds by doing the 2 step combo.


"If the DPS just goes nuts at this lvl with disregard for enmity, well they may end up learning the hard way about watching the enmity bar... Marking and focusing your target also helps, and you can suggest they poke adds that they have no/low threat on to give you a second to hop ahead on the main target."

Most of the time they blame the tank because they assume that we should maintain the emnity no matter what. Until now, no one died in my parties... I've often became a healer when the main healer runs out of MP or he just gets distrated by something. -.- No one listen my advices.

@NintenPyjak64:

Yes, I've tried to number the mobs but people usually like to be the "instance super star" attacking whatever monster he/she likes. I dropped that idea after that bad experience, but I will give it a try once again. Thanks for your comment!


@Meicyn: You can say that again. But I encountered a few amount of fellas who prefer to handle the situation by themselves. When they catch the monster emnity, it's my fault. We should create a thread on the DPS board regarding this issue...

Being the tank is an underrated responsability.

@Vladislav:

Thanks for your comment! Yes, I'm a sworn blood paladin, tank from birth to death! I only must learn the mechanics in this game, since they constantly cap your level in some instances/dungeons, forcing me to rely on my old skills and I, wanting to be a full fledged tank, would like to master all the forms of tanking of my class.

Your rotation is pretty similar to Dcyn strategy. You force the mobs to get close and focus your emnity skills on the main target assuring you to keep it with you while you "lightly" mantain the hate from surrounding mobs. As I previosly stated, it's pretty hard when the DPS(s) love to attack different monsters and they don't focus on the main target. No matter how many times I repeat them, they usually don't listen and well.

You there gave a great idea. I didn't consider "Fight or Flight" in order to increase my damage, thus my emnity. That would be pretty helpful. And yes, Convalescence is a must when I tank multiple monsters or a tough one since my healer can keep me alive. Shield Bash is not needed atm because I didn't learn my trait that increases its duration but I planned to use it to keep my adds busy trying to recover their consciousness.

Guys, I'm focusing my bonus stats on VIT, since I read my class skills and job skills, and "block rate/power" could be easily compensated. So I decided to keep my HP pool at max as possible. Am I doing it right?

Just figured I'd drop my rotation. Dunno if it'll help, but it's something I guess.

I don't like shield lob as an opener. Personally, I feel that its enmity generation is pretty lackluster compared to a combo savage blade and that the TP it uses up is a little more than I would like to spend, so I usually run in face first and:

Single target: Fast Blade ---> Savage Blade ---> Rage of Halone (if available)... (repeat), sprinkling in buffs here and there depending on my needs. If adds appear, do a flash to reel them in and rotate the combo onto the other mobs at least once so the healer doesn't gain too much enmity on them. Then focus on the main target or any adds that the DPS are focusing on.

Group: Fast Blade main target ---> Flash the rest ---> continue with Savage Blade / Rage of Halone combos on the main target. If the DPS split their attention to other mobs, give their mobs a couple swipes. With Rage of Halone at level 26, keeping aggro is cake on multiple mobs. If you can't rotate your combo on all the mobs fast enough, toss in one or two flashes here and there. Don't forget to self-buff according to your needs.

I don't recommend spamming flash. It takes a large portion of your MP bar per flash and when you run out, you have to waste valuable enmity generating time to use your Riot Blade combo with takes more TP to use than Savage Blade. Using it in moderation will allow you to naturally regenerate your MP. Focus on keeping aggro with your main combo as it is more effective than shooting flashes everywhere. Not that I'm saying you are.

As for shield lob, save it for when you really need it. If a mob decides to run off to your healer and you've got some melee DPS that depend on positioning for maximum damage, shield lob it and quickly combo it to gain control back. That way, you won't be throwing your DPS out of rhythm.

Trust me, it gets better after you obtain Rage of Halone (which you should have by now according to your displayed level of 28).
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About DPS attacking different mobs and being "superstars": I know it makes our lives a million times easier when DPS are focusing on our targets exclusively, but I honestly have encountered little to no issues with keeping aggro on three or four mobs at once with DPS going crazy. Proper combo rotation and awareness will cover their rashness just fine. Of course, this doesn't excuse them for being overly wild, but I just wanted to throw in my thoughts about this.

About the bonus stats: It's really up to you. I don't think there's really a "correct" way to do it (just don't go full intelligence...). I'm pretty sure most people will be going full str/full vit/some combination of the two. Increased strength will increase your damage mitigation and your physical damage output which helps with generating enmity. The majority of your enmity generation skills work as multipliers, so even a small boost in damage will make a difference. Increased vitality on the other hand ensures that you have an extra block of health to keep you from getting downed. That larger health pool could possibly save your life one day when you get down to something like 26 HP and realize that you would have been dead if you didn't put in those few points of vitality. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that strength isn't as effective as some people believe it to be, so I can't really recommend one stat over the other.

Long story short, putting your additional stat bonuses into vitality should be just fine. You can make up the rest of the stats through materia if you feel that it's necessary.

Here's something I learned: Read the tool tips. When it says "Increased Emnity", do the action that will give you that. Such as Shield Lob (Ranged only, too heavy TP cost for continued use), Flash, Savage Blade, etc.

This is what I do, at 25:
Single Target: Shield Lob > Fight or Flight, Savage Blade, Savage Blade, Flash (+blind), then start Fast Blade > Savage Blade combo, or FB > Riot Blade for MP ONLY
Multi: Shield Lob at ranged target and let melee gather > Flash > Flash > FoF > SB > SB > Combo.
Defensive CDs as deemed necessary.
People forget: GLD do not get a taunt until 24, and even then the CD is really high (45 sec), DPS needs to be trained to let us get a head start on threat, as this isn't WoW (post-vanila). If they don't listen, take your queue somewhere else, you're a tank, you'll get insta-queue anyways ;)
As someone else said, threat is a GROUP effort.

I know that with PS3 having some targetting issues vs PC it is harder to tank on PS3. With that said switching targets almost constantly with multiple mob pulls is a must as either tank. It is the only way to hold hate well. Macro's will also be your friend!

/ac "Shield Lob"
/mk <attack1>

^ will shield lob and mark a 1 on the target. You will still need hotkeys for quick marks though. I keep 1-3 on hotkeys so I can direct my dps effectively.

Rotation on single target is pretty basic so I'll only go over multi mob pulls.

1. Open with the shield lob macro almost always. This nets you enough initial threat to hold until combos start rolling and marks the target for your dps.
2. Flash soon as all mobs are to you (You can start your Combo and Fast Blade first if the other mobs are farther away and will take time to get to you). Normal rotation on mob 1. Fast Blade - Savage Blade - Rage of Halone
3. Flash again. Tab over to mob 2 and Fast Blade - Savage Blade then tab to mob 3 and Rage of Halone.
4. At this point, you should have solid hate on the adds so go back to mob 1 and ensure you keep enough threat for it to die off. Rinse and Repeat for all mobs. The key is knowing your big threat moves and using them wisely. Keep an eye on emnity bars every time you target swap and they will show you where to focus your attention.

Emnity builders

Savage Blade (x3)
Shield Lob (x3)
Rage of Halone (x5)

Flash provides more emnity then normal attacks but it does not equal either of these 3. All other abilities (that I can think of atm) mostly give emnity based on damage done. Pre level 26 threat can be difficult but once you get Rage of Halone it gets to be pretty easy to keep threat over everyone

What Ariyn posted is similar to what I do. The one thing to remember about Flash, besides it's emnity boost, is that it also blinds the enemies lowering their accuracy. Because blind reduces your incoming melee damage, you should try your best to keep that debuff up as often as possible. There are diminishing returns of 50% per use, so it is not something you want to spam quickly but at the right time to ensure that debuff is up as much as possible.

First use - Blind lasts 12 seconds
second use - blind lasts 6 seconds
third use - blind lasts 3 seconds.

I haven't tested how long it takes before the DR is "up" and you can get the full 12s duration again. Haven't been paying close enough attention to test that just yet.

It's all nice saying that damage should wait etc. but the simple fact is that they wont. The duty finder puts random people in the group, I started off numbering enemies and people just ignored it.

Gladiator threat (at low levels) is frankly pathetic. Our only AoE threat opener sucks up mana too much and when you stop you loose threat on some mobs.

It's not a learn to play issue it's a number issue, gladiators either do to too little threat or damage either do too much damage. It's not fun struggling for threat when you attack and then the damage use ONE spell and you loose threat while waiting for the absurd 2.5 second global to finish. I used taunt and guess what, as soon as it was over the mob went back to the damage dealer. I've hit level 23 and have done all instances and I dread when a new one pops up because it's just not fun loosing threat when you do all you can with the limited toolkit but the numbers are just against you.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

snip~

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Don't say it's broken just because you can't do it properly yet. The way you describe your battles implies you need more practice. I suggest you follow something like what Ariyn does and quit dreading instances and take them as a chance to gain experience in a group setting.

Thank goodness for this thread!

I recently played a dungeon where this one person kept spamming for me to use Flash constantly. Now, I don't usually like to get into heated discussions with someone (as I'm speaking with a ps3 controller), but this person was getting on my nerves a bit. I wasn't all that knowledgeable about stats and everything, but I did know that enmity plays a major role in who the enemies choose to engage. There was this CNJ we had who would excessively use Medica, an ability I was told in Beta 3 which draws attention. I tried to explain that if not even my Provoke is drawing the enemies off of them for more than half a second, then there isn't a whole lot I can do until they ease down. Buut...the original complainer and the CNJ just rage quit. Honestly, some people!

Anyways, it was great to further understand the GLD with this thread! I should be able to explain better in the future and hopefully avoid more issues like this.

I always play the tank role in MMO, and honestly I did feel something was lacking at first as a gladiator. I had to work harder than usual to hold threat. It was challenging the first few dungeons, but not impossible which I was okay with.

However! Once I learned Rage of Halone everything changed. With proper rotations when tanking against either single targets or groups, I have no problems at all holding threat. I highly recommend what Ariyn posted above, it is very similar to what I am doing now as well.

TL/DR: Once you learn Rage of Halone, Gladiator has 0 problems holding threat.

GLA threat may not be "broken" per-se, but it does need some help, namely Flash.
At 29, using a 16 damage weapon and 120 str / attack power, at times my Flash isnt enough to keep adds off the healer...
I understand that once we get Shield Oath, that aoe aggro becomes less irritating, but that is at level 40. Until then we need to make due with Flash, which we cant spam, due to mp costs and diminishing returns. In short, Flash needs some kind of buff. Right now it is just not strong enough to reliably hold aggro on sleeping mobs, much less against someone aoeing even a little.
Maybe have Flash scale better with attack power and weapon damage, or make the lvl 20 trait add the blind and a significant hate increase on Flash, so hold us till we get to 40 for Shield Oath.

I actually use Riot blade a lot, paired with a lot of flash due to the MP it gives(also damage). With shield lob on the pull and targets far away + having provoke should one get away.
I also mark all targets before the pull and often ask the party to CC the one with the highest number. Been all success so far.
Savage Blade occasionally sees use if I feel I need more enmity on the target.

With this tactic I've not had a single party member die, with the exception of Ifrit where the DPS on the needle was slow a couple of tries.
I am though only level 25 so I'll see if I need to use more savage strike and other abilities later on. :) This has been working great until now!

While I'm glad this thread has expanded to full enmity discussions, don't forget the OP is talking about lower level dungeons and being sync'd to where you lose a lot of our strong enmity skills. So let's try to offer small tidbits for pre-RoH quality of life.

@Saccharin
-Yes, random groups can suck and at lower levels I don't bother marking targets. Upon loading just explain to the party the basics. "1. Please watch your enmity bars and adjust accordingly unless you want to tank. 2. If you pull threat, come to me so I can pick it up. Running does nothing for anyone but aid in your death. 3. Please focus fire, it is easier for me to tank and we'll clear the dungeon faster."

Provoke(Taunt) also works by putting you above the member who had hate by 1 enmity point. Just 1. So yes, they can pull it back again if you don't do anything right away but it spikes you back up to, if not at, the top.

@Ariyn
-I don't have mark on my SLob. I end up targeting fresh spawn adds or suddenly lost mobs that go after others so that I can use SLob to snag threat back. With your macro, that '1' would be jumping around a lot and confusing my party lol - but it is not a bad idea for others

If you keep an eye on the enmity bars you can modify rotations if you are far ahead on the main. At times I'll FB the main, and tab to the next, notice healer or DPS has some threat and use the combo'd Savage to secure threat. Rotate back to main, FB and check enmity, move on to the next add or sustain lead on main. This way I rarely have any mob from the group leave 'the party'

-This is pre-RoH in regards to OP.

@Xuyi
-If you've done proper FB > SB rotations, throwing in a FB > RB will add threat still from dmg while replenishing your MP. Especially good on groups where you flash spam to keep them all and can FB one to RB another for MP to sustain it. It all comes down to being aware of your enmity on your targets. Managing it properly can easily afford you time for MP replenishment.

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As for stats, if you feel that threat is causing you issues, pumping all the point into STR while leveling can help you with that. The increased dmg is also multiplied by the enmity modifiers. It also increases the amount of dmg blocked from the shield, so it helps your effective HP a bit. If threat isn't an issue then pump out VIT for higher health pool to stress healers less XD - Again, these are my thoughts for leveling, no clue on endgame but you can respec for 10k seals from your GC later on so you are not permanently allotting those points.

Also I didn't notice anyone mention it but our buffs also apply small amounts of enmity and don't affect the GCD when triggered. Example: hit FoF and FB instantly for the start of an enmity spike even before modifiers from the SB and RoH follow ups.

Posted in another thread but Enmity Tables: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=231

The main problem with tanking is the focus off the dps. The dmg dealers often hit different targets. keep flash savge blade as much as you can :) u should be fine :)

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Originally Posted by Raze

Don't say it's broken just because you can't do it properly yet. The way you describe your battles implies you need more practice. I suggest you follow something like what Ariyn does and quit dreading instances and take them as a chance to gain experience in a group setting.

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I'm well aware on what buttons to use to gain threat but when you do your opening move and then before your global is up you loose threat the yes it is broken. I know it's still low level and by some posts it gets better but this is where people learn their class so to speak and if they find it difficult or impossible then there will be a greater shortage of tanks than there currently is.

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Originally Posted by Dcyn

@Saccharin
-Yes, random groups can suck and at lower levels I don't bother marking targets. Upon loading just explain to the party the basics. "1. Please watch your enmity bars and adjust accordingly unless you want to tank. 2. If you pull threat, come to me so I can pick it up. Running does nothing for anyone but aid in your death. 3. Please focus fire, it is easier for me to tank and we'll clear the dungeon faster."

Provoke(Taunt) also works by putting you above the member who had hate by 1 enmity point. Just 1. So yes, they can pull it back again if you don't do anything right away but it spikes you back up to, if not at, the top.

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I'm aware how taunt mechanics work in MMOs. Taunt is a sticky plaster but only for a few seconds, you taunt and then the damage dealer uses ONE spell that causes more threat than your highest threat move, it's broken and you can't deny it.

This maybe at low level but first impressions count and if your not having fun then you'll quit. It's really odd, there's some features in the game that were implemented in MMOs and found not to be working but for some odd reason the devs have decided to follow this. Pretty much any MMO has a tank shortage and usually it's one tank and healer and three damage dealers but rather than be 'ground breaking' and make it four damage dealer instead we have a reduction to two! I don't mind working for threat but when it gets pulled off you during a global - a two point five second global - it's not fun standing there while you wait. Others might find it fun having to constantly pull mobs off of other players - even the healers - but I just find it frustrating. I was excited when I got a stun but I never get a chance to use it since if I do I slip down the threat table, it's ridiculous.

Maybe I have higher expectations but it's not fun. I wonder do marauders have threat problems? Off to their forums to see.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

I'm well aware on what buttons to use to gain threat but when you do your opening move and then before your global is up you loose threat the yes it is broken.

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Once again, don't call it "broken" because you can't do it. I put "yet" in my last post just to be nice.

edit: and seriously, your posts make you look like you have no clue what you're talking about. Do yourself a favor and leave tanking to those who understand it.

I haven't had any issues keeping enmity/hate UNLESS their is an Archer in the group... Seems to be the only class that can pull threat off of me, even in single target... especially at the end of a boss fight when I'm low on TP. I feel like I'm doing everything possible to keep enmity up, but for some reason Archers can sneak it away... not sure if anyone else has noticed that. I am only Level 20, so I know once I get "Provoke" life will be a lot easier.

First time tanker in any MMO game here as a Marauder.

It was a little hairy at first but eventually you get access to the skills that give a lot of enmity (Overpower for me and I picked up Flash as well). It took me a couple of dungeon runs to get a feel for how it works with different classes when leveling up.

Can Gladiators pick up Overpower? If they can I recommend they do because that alone in an AOE pack with a single Flash and you're set.

Ill just do a quick C&P from another thread i just responded to


This method allows me to act as an AOE glad tank


On packs of 3 + Here's what I do. And i rarely lose hate


I rarely mark - And i very much dislike sleep so I normally ask for it not to be used.


[Shield Lob] My intended 1st target to pull the pack. Until the pack clumps up I do nothing and wait.

As soon as they are in range, I [Flash] and throw 1 full cycle of [Fast Blade] [ Savage Blade ] and [Rage of Halone] On the monster I originally [Shield Lobbed]

After that cycle is complete, I never touch monster [A] again, It should be killed fairly quick.

I [Flash] Again, and I switch between targets for every move. [Fast Blade] Monster B, [Savage Blade] C, [Rage of Halone] B. And the opposite on the way back.


If you lose threat, A quick [Provoke] followed by an extra flash locks the aggro. I don't really spam it too often. Twice per pull at best

This is all for trash mobs, anything that poses significant danger, Bee's in The Sunken Temple, I never split DPS. I focus them down.

Playing this style allows my FC's THMS to aoe non stop all out every run

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

I'm well aware on what buttons to use to gain threat but when you do your opening move and then before your global is up you loose threat the yes it is broken. I know it's still low level and by some posts it gets better but this is where people learn their class so to speak and if they find it difficult or impossible then there will be a greater shortage of tanks than there currently is.

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This is normal If someone else has performed an act after you pull a group of monsters by performing 1 act on 1 monster.


Per example.

You shield lob mob A, mob B and C come running.

The healer heals you, or someone even casts a buff spell. Anything that causes an EFFECT will draw the attention of mob B and C to them and not you because technically you haven't done anything to them yet.

If you miss 1, Shield bash and re flash

Best thing to do here yourself face to face with what you pulled and time your flash to hit mobs B and C before they run past you. is after your initial shield lob, run towards the pack. Place

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Originally Posted by Scotchio

I have a question regarding the early dungeon boss fights.
I have only tried Sastasha and Tam Tara.

When tanking on the bosses at the end and the extra mobs start to spawn, are tanks expected to run around and gather enmity on the adds or concentrate on the boss and let the DD's sort the adds out?

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By the time they come out Scotchio, you should have such an immense lead in threat on the main boss that you can probably chase them around, and attack them untill they die and still not lose threat.

But thats technical. Your question is should you

yes, you should. Your parties mistakes in boss mechanics doesn't alleviate you from your responsibilities ;)

I have a question regarding the early dungeon boss fights.
I have only tried Sastasha and Tam Tara.

When tanking on the bosses at the end and the extra mobs start to spawn, are tanks expected to run around and gather enmity on the adds or concentrate on the boss and let the DD's sort the adds out?

Admittedly I'm playing MAR, but Tanking will be just about the same.

There are 3 main hate tools,
Melee-single target
Ranged-single target (Shield Lob, Tomahawk)
AoE (Flash, Overwhelm)

You also have to worry about slept / bound enemies in the case of AoE attacks. Make sure they're safely slept / bound away from the party. If you're having a hard time seeing it ask them to use markers (red or purple)

As a tank you HAVE to lead, or it's an up hill battle the whole way. Try to make sure your allies are focus firing on a single target, if you have to use markers.

Start by tagging an enemy with your ranged tool (Shield Lob), then when the group comes close hit them all with your AoE tool (Flash). After this use at least 2 of your single target-melee hate builders, if you're part of your combo chain great! Once you've done that you can either use your AoE again, or start doing single target hits on other targets. If the last target is slept/bound away from the party make sure to use your ranged to wake it up just before the previous one dies.



@Scotchio in terms of early dungeons if you can grab aggro and safely hold it on everything that does damage great. There are some fights where you're not expected to (targets don't attack party members) in this case you should keep focused on the main target and let your DPS switch over and burn them down quickly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scotchio

I have a question regarding the early dungeon boss fights.
I have only tried Sastasha and Tam Tara.

When tanking on the bosses at the end and the extra mobs start to spawn, are tanks expected to run around and gather enmity on the adds or concentrate on the boss and let the DD's sort the adds out?

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You should swap to everything to help deal damage. The only time you wouldn't do this is if the mob you were tanking had an un-telegraphed frontal AoE, which I don't believe happens in the early levels.

If the mobs are something that last more than a few seconds, you should probably do a flash or two and maybe some single target enmity generation, just so your healer doesn't get smacked around.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scotchio

When tanking on the bosses at the end and the extra mobs start to spawn, are tanks expected to run around and gather enmity on the adds or concentrate on the boss and let the DD's sort the adds out?

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You'll have to use your judgment. Managing the fight is a tank's job. Collect the adds if they pose a threat to your healer, leave them to the DDs if they're squishy. If grabbing 3 of them puts you at risk, don't do it. Some adds will kill you if put on the tank. The first miniboss in Brayflox was like that in Phase 3, with the adds and miniboss taking out a tank in 6 seconds or so if the tank didn't burn a CD. Meanwhile, DPS had no trouble at all flattening them due to their tiny HP pools. Don't take on an add if it's going to get you killed, because if the tank or healer go down, your party's chances plummet. That also means that when a DPS aggros an extra group, don't be a hero. If you can't take the hits, you're going down with him. Even good tanks will occasionally make this mistake.

As a general rule, protect the healer first, yourself second, and DPS third.

Wow, that's a lot of help, my friends!

I've been trying out what you've told me. I even found out things on my own, that later you guys wrote here. At lower levels, even though I don't have hate control skills, I cast "Fight or Flight" to boost my damage and increase my threat. Flash and Fast Blade in combination with Savage Blade is all I got. Low level dungeons don't require a full fledge tank, since they are there just for the porpuse of teaching every class role.

At higher levels, it became pretty easy with all my new skills. For groups, I did somethiing similar than SomeFatGalka strategy. I focus to unleash a full charge of hate to my main target (Shield Lob + Flash + Blade combos) and then split the sucesive combos on the other targets: Fast Blade (A), Savage Blade (B), Rage of Halone (C) (Tabbing monsters to checking their hate-mater constantly). I noticed that SB and RoH increases the threat sepparetly, so I use them like that. If a monster gets away, I use provoke (As I read, it puts the aggro-meter just 1 point above the previous threat) and then I use Shield Lob to get his hate again. On single oponnents I don't have trouble holding my aggro. I overpassed the Topaz Carbuncle in a lot of instances. The key is the comunication with your party. Tanks are somewhat the leader of the group, since they can't advance until you move. I started marking my targets (I created macros for it) and it's great. It helped me to split the attacks of my DPS to the main mob and not stealing aggro from others. I've been practicing in dungeons over and over to master my tank skills. I also noticed that at higher levels, both MP and TP are not a problem anymore.

-Use of buffs: If there's a tough monster or a big group of monsters (3+/4+, normally) Convalescence and Rampart are a must. You help your healer because he/she's not healing you constantly, and he/she can save her/his precious MP.
-Use of other skills: Shield Bash helps me interrupt the monster's cast. If they proyect a threat area that I can't escape... that skill saves my life.
-Use of common sense: If you see the monster uses cone/straight AoE attacks, don't let the monster face your party. Go behind them so the evil dude is showing his back to your party members. Also, you help Puglists and Lancers to increase their overall DPS.
-Use of foods: Skill speed bonus + Vitality are a must for me. The global cooldown sometimes is a pain.

But then I discovered a new challenge. I fought in a Duty in which you have to fight a Malboro. DPS weren't doing a thing to kill the sphere-adds, so then a lot of green fellas spawned killing the whole party (That was the first and last time my party wipes in a group). So, how do I face adds? There're a lot and they appear from everywhere. I have to focus constantly on the whole scenario searching for adds.

At first, is pretty stressing being a tank with all the things I've to check while I face monsters, but I'm sure I will get over it.

I've been reading the forum and there's a lot of hate for tanks that don't make their job right. Well, instead of bashing them, they should guide them. Being a tank is not for everybody, I suspect that a lot of people will quit the class someday. I blame WoW for that, paladins in there are quite OP and they can do everything. In this game, that's not the case. Paladins are tanks and that's what they do. It's a lot of responsability and you must assume it, learn it or quit.


PD: I would have prefered Shield Oath to be my first paladin skill. :(

Yeah, it seems really odd, and very much annoying that MRD gets their tanking stance at 30, and we get our's at 40.
Ideally, we should get both stances at 30. Or at least make Shield Oath be available at 30, wherein we are taught about being a free paladin... and defending people...
Then make Sword Oath come in at 35, where we have to slaughter a mass of monkeys.
Cover at 40, Spirits at 45, Hallowed at 50.

I recently ran Sunken Temple as a 36 PLD, and given that almost every single pull was 3 mobs, sometimes 3 mobs that ALL throw ground aoes forcing me to joust half the time and putting them out of range of Flash, my aoe hate generation felt very lacking. I imagine it would not be as much of a problem with Shield Oath... but as it stands, PLD just looks bad compared to WAR from 30 till 40.

Can warrior use Flash. Because in my case I was in a dungeon and flash was not working for me??!

Is this a bug I should report?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scotchio

I have a question regarding the early dungeon boss fights.
I have only tried Sastasha and Tam Tara.

When tanking on the bosses at the end and the extra mobs start to spawn, are tanks expected to run around and gather enmity on the adds or concentrate on the boss and let the DD's sort the adds out?

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Going by memory (as an ARC): The Sastasha boss adds are weak enough that a DD should be able to solo them. Same with the Tam-Tara Imps. For the Skeletons and Mitelings in Tam-Tara, feel free to tank them.

For those rightly saying that ARC has crazy aggro: I'm sorry, we don't get Quelling Strikes until 34. :(

Another quick question about Flash.

Is it a frontal cone AoE or an all around circle AoE?
I wondered if I should be facing the whole group of mobs or if it will work if I'm amongst them with one or two just behind me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scotchio

Another quick question about Flash.

Is it a frontal cone AoE or an all around circle AoE?
I wondered if I should be facing the whole group of mobs or if it will work if I'm amongst them with one or two just behind me.

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Circle AoE.