One of the big things about the FF series was that for a long time, story and character development was a big part of the games. Starting about FF4 and really important for FF6-10, things like romance, comedy, and drama were key components of what made FF great. Then das merger happened. After that, it seems like SE started to lose a lot of things that made it good. Romantic elements started taking a back seat. Lightheartedness to offset the heavy settings started disappearing. It started getting harder to connect to the heroes emotionally and the villians, while someone you wanted to defeat on a cerebral level, aren't really that bad on an emotional level. In other words, I'm defeating them to finish the game, not because I want to defeat them.
Sephiroth? Total bastard, even before Aeris (which was overkill if you ask me). Kefka? Totally insane. He's a guy you just had to take down. Seymour? Despite his outward demeanor, his cold-blooded ruthlessness was chilling. Where the other two would slay those who got in their way, he'd kill or sacrifice those people in a way in which he'd gain directly from their deaths (Anima, his plans for Yuna, his father's position).
So I have to ask, where's the comedy?
Where's a real villain you want to take down?
Where's the romance?
Where's the drama?
Where's the story?
It seems like it was a mistake for SE not to include these things, particularly in an age were people want personal connections to their entertainment. People have expectations for this series and IMO SE is doing a bad example of managing those expectations as well as not meeting them.
Not enough stuff to get me emotionally invested
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04-12-2011, 01:38 AMWinterclawNot enough stuff to get me emotionally invested
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04-12-2011, 01:42 AMBetelgeuzah
I guess you haven't seen the Judge yet.
The online FF's don't lay out the whole story at once. When we are done with vanilla, the first chapter of the epic is done. Expansions flesh out and introduce new villains.
The lore and premise allows for a great story to be made, but the game has to get better first of all. -
04-12-2011, 01:45 AMWinterclaw
I started in Girdania. It was building towards one way, then all of that seems like it is dropped and I'm told to go to the desert city. So at this point (still haven't bothered to go there) it feels like my chain was being yanked for 15 levels and I've ended up more POed by the plot than anything else. If I wanted to play in the desert, I would have started there.
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04-12-2011, 01:47 AMBetelgeuzah
So when the story takes you to new places, you go "wahh I want to be in this forest forever"?
That's kinda the point of the story. What's gonna happen when they tell you to go to Ishgard? Or Ala Mhigo? Madness! -
04-12-2011, 01:47 AMKato3y
An online game can't be like an offline one. Especially about the storyline.
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04-12-2011, 01:48 AMMoth
Do the rank 46 mission and then say something
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04-12-2011, 01:50 AMOstiaHalf true, i can understand not revealing all of the story, but so little ? really ? you get to R50 and nothing ? not one villain ? Lmao!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato3y
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04-12-2011, 01:50 AMCorrderio
Don't forget it's only half the story, when PS3 comes out they'll slowly up the level cap and add to the story. In fact there is a R52 in the data IIRC.
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04-12-2011, 01:52 AMKalleraIts true, take the Shadow Lord for instance, first the main villain 1, than not a villain, but a tool for villain 2, in an apocalytic plot whose prevention of villain 3 awaking only cause villain 2 to act again, then comes villain 4, who is trying to evade capture from villain 5 to prevent another apocalypse, only for villain 5 to be possessed by a megadeus and fail to carry it out because villain 4 didn't attack him, you did. And finally, go back in time for shenanagains and fight villain 1, but at the end of the storyline fight villain 7.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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04-12-2011, 01:53 AMAlcideActually I would dare to say that the rank46 mission signs the start of the real storyline :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Corrderio
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04-12-2011, 01:54 AMBetelgeuzahhttp://www.ffxivcore.com/index.php?a...attach_id=6906Quote:
Originally Posted by Ostia
Not a siiiingle villain. Not even close. Nope. 50 ranks and.. n o t h i n g a t a l l.
And that guy > shadow lord, anyday. -
04-12-2011, 01:54 AMLeowilde
I see your point - look at the latest single player FFs. I still hasn't finished half of FFXIII, and I used to be so eager about the series before. But as we all know, online games work somewhat different, and I have been more than thrilled with the storyline of FFXIV so far. I only wish there was more of it; more sidequests like the class quests to flesh out between the main storyline, for example. It's easy to get cut off the story when spending too much time solely on grinding and doing leves with no cut scenes.
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04-12-2011, 01:59 AMAlcideDamn, that CS is so cool *-* You can tell that both the villain and the good gang have the potential to be amazing characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
And Papalymo and Yda... <3 -
04-12-2011, 02:01 AMOstiaGrahf ? Really ? We dont know if he is a villain, for all we know he can be one of those tragic/villain/hero NPC that gets in your way and in the end was trying to save the world, or he can be a real villain or whatever, the point is, WE DONT KNOW ***, about him or anybody in the empire, 50R of gameplay and all we see is a grafh look alike and thats it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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04-12-2011, 02:01 AMCorrderioPretty much, remember how useless most nation storylines were until about rank 4 or whenever you go for Magicite? Outside of the dragon/ahirman fight there wasn't any hint at the Shadow Lord.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcide
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04-12-2011, 02:06 AMBetelgeuzahThe point is that you are trying to make up *** to diss the game, and are failing horribly at it :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ostia
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04-12-2011, 02:19 AMOstiaMaking up *** ? Really ? So tell me, who are the villains of the game ? what motivation should i the player have to seek them out and destroy them, oh please do tell me what that grafh look alike is, and what is he doing, what is his part on the plot ? is the THE VILLAIN or is he an underling ? Is he even a villain ? whats his background ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
As i said, we dont really have a villain, grafh came out, had a cool CG and left that was it, thats hardly enough to say "OMG HE IS DA BAD GUY" Specially in a FF game, when many times, the cool looking mean guy, ends up being on your side, just not a goody good guy, nor a supreme villain(Seifer for example :P) -
04-12-2011, 02:21 AMCairdeas
I wrote an Op-Ed about this on Eorzeapedia a while back discussing more the Interaction with individual NPC's, Cutscenes and side quests.
http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2010/12/2...-to-the-world/ -
04-12-2011, 02:28 AMArcellLimsa Spoilers R15Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egh3lxTp_cM
9:40
Don't forget the guy from the Limsa storyline who stole the key to Seal Rock and stored it in his body via darkness. You can't tell me he wasn't evil, just look at him! -
04-12-2011, 02:40 AMRandis
woops, double post
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04-12-2011, 02:41 AMAbriael
I agree that emotional invested should be a very present element in the game (actually there's quite a bit in some class quests, but there should be more and more distributed through the storyline).
The path companion could be very conductive of that as I explained in this thread.
The main story is a tad too slow in revealing the villain (even if he looks like he has a TON of potential), and the main supporting characters (the miquote from limsa, the hyur ninja from ul'dah and the silly lady+lalafell from gridania) disappear for an excessively long time between the rank 20 and the rank 46 quest (returning with no reason given at all).
The story itself isn't the problem, as much as the fact that the quests are too far apart, so the slower development is excessively felt. I personally would speed up considerably the progression of the current story quests (distributing them between rank 1 and 35) and add more and more involved chapters between rank 35 and 50. I doubt we'll see an extension of the level cap before the PS3 release anyway. -
04-12-2011, 02:42 AMRandis
IMO Getting to R46 to get a taste of the story is a design flaw.
Introducing things slowly is one thing, expecting people to hit the level cap to get a hint of story is much to less.
This story i would expect to see R1 - R30.
You can't make MMO RPG with a decent story of a offline RPG game? You keep hearing that, but its BS.
There are no universal rules.
What you get in most mmo is not a story, its merely a setting.
What you have in FFXIV is just a setting, there is no story development that involves your character, you have no role in this story, you merely get told what happens in the world without being a part of it.
From the start you have no boundaries, you can travel all world and access all (non instanced) dungeons.
You are not restricted and that partially makes the story so unrevealing.
In a offline game you slowly get to discover the world following a storyline, you experience twists and get to see new things.
It may be somewhat linear, sometimes with multiple choices but hey, that is how stories work! You can’t have a completely open story, coz then it would not be a story…
FFXIV simply does not get you involved, it merely simulates the daily life within the given setting.
Days pass by, you kill, you craft, that’s it.
If you watch any awesome MMO CGI movie, the cool heroes you see, you know, it is not you.
Playing the MMO, the games makes sure to make you feel completely unimportant, random cannon fodder.
You are not the batman, hell you are not even robin, you are just a dude who knows a friend of robins ex GF. -
04-12-2011, 02:46 AMOstiaI know i will get a lot of hate for this, but in WOW the NPC are my robin <.< Just sayingQuote:
Originally Posted by Randis
Also i agree with abriael this time. -
04-12-2011, 02:59 AMAbriael
Another problem is that the class quests (that are mostly very nice and involved story-wide) are, by definition, distributed between classes. There's unfortunately, a lot of high quality quest-related content with lovely cutscenes and characters that many people simply don't experience, because they don't play all classes to level 36.
Just as I suggested above with the main storyline, I would condense the level progression and add a longer/more epic tail to the class quests as well, as proposed in this thread. -
04-12-2011, 03:23 AMRau
I think the worst part of the story is that your character isn't actually "doing" anything.
Such is the flaw of letting crafters participate in the main story. You can beat the final mission without "doing" anything. Just let the NPC get beaten by the environment. Hell, even in the cutscene, your ass is being saved by NPCs. -
04-12-2011, 03:43 AMRandis
What do you mean the crafter not doing anything? whaaaaaaaaaat? I made 6 bucklers for Camp Horizon! They told me it was important.
Seriously tho, I really liked the Goldsmith and alchemist quests, they revealed a lot of BG info about the world. I also liked the gladiator quests that told a lot too. In fact I liked those quests more than the 1-3X main story like quests -
04-12-2011, 03:56 AMviion
Rank 50 done all stories, including 46 and story sucks, its rubbish, predictable and whoever wrote it should be ashamed, its typical and cheap to the FF series. But coupled with a boring game and (post current patch)bad levelling designs not a lot of people saw it. Rank 46 is the only decent one because it has a pimp fight scene but it lasts about 1 minute and is very typical FF style and the ending was utterly stupid. its like watching a show that constantly tries to kill the main character, but obviously you know hes the main and cant die and some how survive the impossible over something stupid.
Very unhappy about the story so far.
The only thing I can give credits to is the cinematics are amazing because the engine was built on that purpose, and the fact that party members can show up in cutscenes like they belong there, which could make me think in future you might have cross-party cutscenes which would be ultra-awesome. We'll see