Scholar. Will it be the next WHM?

I have a currently maxed WHM (unless we are able to go to 60 right away). Just curious at how many people will main SCH as a healer or use it as an alternate in fights where we already have 2-3 WHM and want more support that SCH is supposed to have from when I first read about it. To better explain it... I hope each healer is situational, or having atleast one of each in raids is beneficial.

Scholar will not replace whm and WHM will not replace sch. Period. I still see WHM as being the best tank healer and sch taking care of the group. WHM will for sure have the biggest heals and is the only one with an "O crap" button full heal.

Scholar will always be the little brother.

If you're determined enough of a healer, level both for maximum employment opportunity if we see an over-saturation of White Mages.

Quite honestly, I feel that SCH is going to be so good early on in this game that players who want to play WHM will be screaming for a SCH nerf/WHM buff. I am going to level both to test them out like many others, but I feel the group buffs along with equal to greater healing potency with fairies will be too much. As nice as the WHM cooldowns are and their ability to give themselves buffs, a SCH, or 2 SCHs in 8 man raids giving everyone similar or better buffs/cooldowns will prove much better in the long run.

Things, such as, everyone being buffed consistently, which will make the fight go faster, no potential mana problems, and being able to chain some buffs, such as Sacred Soil or spell/skill speed buffs, may out-weight everything. I would be surprised if the top end raiding free companies do not take anything less than 2 SCHs in 8 man raiding and beyond, potential 6 in 24 man, unless they nerf them.

I do not think that WHM will be completely useless, but I do not think they will shine in 8 man content. I think we will have to wait until 24 man content to see their true potential.

I think that both Scholar and White Mage are different enough in their abilities, strengths and weaknesses to need both in the 8 man content, as Yoshi has said. I expect to see both needed. But we're not there yet, there are no Scholar's running 8 man content, there is no 8 man content yet to run at all, so we won't know for sure until we get there. :)

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Originally Posted by Callsign

Things, such as, everyone being buffed consistently, which will make the fight go faster, no potential mana problems, and being able to chain some buffs, such as Sacred Soil or spell/skill speed buffs, may out-weight everything. I would be surprised if the top end raiding free companies do not take anything less than 2 SCHs in 8 man raiding and beyond, potential 6 in 24 man, unless they nerf them.

I do not think that WHM will be completely useless, but I do not think they will shine in 8 man content. I think we will have to wait until 24 man content to see their true potential.

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Well the 8 man content is based around having both a whm and scholar, but we shall see if 2x sch is good enough compared to 1x sch and 1x whm.

The way the spell descriptions read, SCH will be better for enemy burst damage, especially if it's predictable. For example, the Ifrit fight if it's available at level 50, a Scholar would be better than a WHM after the dps destroys the center crystal at 50% boss health. SCH will put down Sacred Soil reducing all damage by 90%, pet Fairy will health regen everyone and SCH may also cast Physick to top everyone off if needed. But really, SCH will probably only need to cast Sacred Soil, 1 spell, to top everyone off while the Fairy takes care of everything else. A WHM will probably have to cast Medica 2-3 times to get the same results. Even as single target burst damage by the enemy, the SCH will be able to hold their own. Cast Adloquium for the heal+shield (that's health protection that rivals Cure II), instant Sacred Soil, then top the tank off.

From what I read on some topic on web SCH is pure aoe heal and WHM is single target so ofc those two will need to be in 8+ raid, cuz WHM will concentrate on tank and SCH on rest party, there is no such thing of better healer.

other argument between those two is secondary stat u need for WHM its spell speed, and SCH its critical hit/heal.

I don't think it will be the next WHM. I see it more as giving us a choice on what we want to use. Also there maybe some situations that call for one or the other. I think the best would be utilizing both classes to maximize your healing. That would be the optimal situation.

Sacred Soil reduces dmg by 10%, not 90%... SCH are already looking way overpowered as it is, that would be game breaking material
But yeah its just like Callsign said, I have the exact same opinion as I posted in the WHM feedback thread... I will bet you if they dont nerf SCH within the first week, world firsts will start happening with 2x SCH in group and no one will care about WHM

Its not surprising at all, considering Arcanist is the newest class in the game, and anyone who has played it in B4 knows how broken Topaz Carbuncle is
Id love to see some nerfs already on release date, but we will see

And for the people who go "dont nerf, buff WHM instead" - no, thats stupid, heals in general are already overpowered compared to the content, it would only make the game even easier
I dont even like how they buffed heals by 25% across the board... Did anyone even have trouble healing in B3? I dont think so
Meanwhile, my lvl 20 CNJ in B4 heals for the same amount as my lvl 30 CNJ did in B3

Anway, I hate pet classes, always the same broken crap in every game... Playing an Arcanist in this game so far feels like cheating pretty much, since you can do everything
And there goes my 3rd daily post, with more ACN rage... The nerfs cant come soon enough

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Originally Posted by Rillifane

Topaz is only "broken" if the people playing glad/marauder are very badly geared or have no idea how to play, many people have posted that if you keep your gear up to date and know how to play the class you never lose threat to him, and don't get started on all the other lies that people spread about on the beta forums.

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No, Topaz is broken because you dont even NEED a tank anymore... I know, I tried it myself, tanked through Tam Tara and Copperbell with it without tank in the party, and he never came close to dying
The bottomline is Arcanist doubles as Tank AND healer, meaning you could go into a dungeon with 1x ACN + 3x THM and completely wreck stuff... Why bother wasting 2 party slots with a tank and a healer?
Yes, its low level content, but it still shouldnt be like that

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Originally Posted by Namae

Its not surprising at all, considering Arcanist is the newest class in the game, and anyone who has played it in B4 knows how broken Topaz Carbuncle is
Id love to see some nerfs already on release date, but we will see
Anway, I hate pet classes, always the same broken crap in every game... Playing an Arcanist in this game so far feels like cheating pretty much, since you can do everything
And there goes my 3rd daily post, with more ACN rage... The nerfs cant come soon enough

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Topaz is only "broken" if the people playing glad/marauder are very badly geared or have no idea how to play, many people have posted that if you keep your gear up to date and know how to play the class you never lose threat to him, and don't get started on all the other lies that people spread about on the beta forums.

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Originally Posted by Namae

No, Topaz is broken because you dont even NEED a tank anymore... I know, I tried it myself, tanked through Tam Tara and Copperbell with it without tank in the party, and he never came close to dying
The bottomline is Arcanist doubles as Tank AND healer, meaning you could go into a dungeon with 1x ACN + 3x THM and completely wreck stuff... Why bother wasting 2 party slots with a tank and a healer?
Yes, its low level content, but it still shouldnt be like that

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Lancer and Pug can tank low level content too, so by your logic those 2 classes should be nerfed too. So again stop spewing out things you have little understanding about. You can do dungeons with 3x lancer and conjurer and clear stuff faster than any party set up with arcanists.

well even if SCH got 10% damage reduction, it doesnt mean they have overpower.. for example protect on SCH dont have magic dmg reduction - its kinda that way work.. I dont see it overpower..

Sacred soil is a ground target AoE to apply the 10% dmg reduction, there will be plenty of fights were people will either have to spread out or keep running away from ground circles so it's overall effectiveness "may" be reduced. Plus it needs Aetherflow effect which is also required to use lustrate and energy drain.

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Originally Posted by Namae

Sacred Soil reduces dmg by 10%, not 90%...

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True. I did misread it. Wishful thinking I guess. But combine Sacred Soil, Eye for an Eye, and Adloquium and you get a huge amount of health protection that causes almost no hp drain for many seconds. This is mostly useful for big hitting enemies or when there's a lot of them in a pull.

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Originally Posted by Namae

anyone who has played it in B4 knows how broken Topaz Carbuncle is Id love to see some nerfs already on release date

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I don't know how you could judge Topaz Carby as broken. I used it in Halatali just for kicks and though he had 200hp more than our Maurader, he lost it faster and easier on trash pulls making it a mana sponge for healers. I desummoned it when I saw that my DPS was handicapped because I was helping healing it. I've run Halatali a lot during beta as a healer because i leveled CNJ to 35 on both Ultros server and Gilgamesh x 2(for P3 and P4) and from my abundant amount of sampling, the topaz carbuncle is assuredly not as good a tank as real players who have better defense stats. Yes, they can survive some fights if you spam heals on them, but that doesn't mean they are at all efficient. You are fooling yourself if you think so.

I figure I may as well ask this here, instead of making a thread about it (and the fact that I can't... I don't understand why SE loves making thread restrictions.)

Arcanist is the only class that can have two jobs. With every other class, they each get their own individual points when they level up. How will it work with the Scholar/Summoner? If I put all my points as an Arcanist into Intelligence for a Summoner, what happens if I also want to play as a Scholar? Will the Scholar have it's own set of points when you switch to it, or will the Scholar be stuck with the points I had put into Intel as an Arcanist when I had a Summoner in mind?

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Originally Posted by peaches

If I put all my points as an Arcanist into Intelligence for a Summoner, what happens if I also want to play as a Scholar? Will the Scholar have it's own set of points when you switch to it, or will the Scholar be stuck with the points I had put into Intel as an Arcanist when I had a Summoner in mind?

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If you drop all your points in to INT on arcanist both the summoner and scholar will have the bonus points towards intelligence. There will be respec items to reset the points but it's not something you will be able to "spam" to change it around quickly. While scholar does need mind to increase it's healing potency it also needs a little bit of int for it's dots still (as doing both healing and dotting is a scholar's job) and for energy drain's damage (thus leading towards the amount of MP this move restores). Now i'm not saying you'll be fine dumping everything in to INT for both classes, but it's just something to keep in mind.

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Originally Posted by Glide

From the last podcast:
Q7: Will the arcanist’s attribute points be shared between summoner and scholar?

A7: No, they will not be shared.

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You might want to check the subtitled video he corrects himself saying he made a mistake and they are shared.

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0:35:33
Q: Will the arcanist's attribute points be shared between summoner and scholar?
A: They will be shared. Up until level 50 the equipment has stats that support both. Summoners will focus on INT, while scholars will focus on MND; however, this is because their roles are different as one is a DPS and the other is a healer. After level 50, you will have to select which you would like to specialize in by selecting the appropriate equipment.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/64478

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Originally Posted by Rillifane

If you drop all your points in to INT on arcanist both the summoner and scholar will have the bonus points towards intelligence. There will be respec items to reset the points but it's not something you will be able to "spam" to change it around quickly. While scholar does need mind to increase it's healing potency it also needs a little bit of int for it's dots still (as doing both healing and dotting is a scholar's job) and for energy drain's damage (thus leading towards the amount of MP this move restores). Now i'm not saying you'll be fine dumping everything in to INT for both classes, but it's just something to keep in mind.

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From the last podcast:
Q7: Will the arcanist’s attribute points be shared between summoner and scholar?

A7: No, they will not be shared.

Does anyone know if the arcanist will be able to que as a healer for dungeons up to 35? i know in Beta 4 they could not was hoping it changed

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Originally Posted by Namae

No, Topaz is broken because you dont even NEED a tank anymore... I know, I tried it myself, tanked through Tam Tara and Copperbell with it without tank in the party, and he never came close to dying
The bottomline is Arcanist doubles as Tank AND healer, meaning you could go into a dungeon with 1x ACN + 3x THM and completely wreck stuff... Why bother wasting 2 party slots with a tank and a healer?
Yes, its low level content, but it still shouldnt be like that

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I tanked Halatali up to the last boss with topaz carby, whm, and dd. the tank disconnected and never returned. I probably could have tanked the last boss too but a tank showed up for us then. I agree its kind of silly how easy it was.

Not seeing any validity to the OP cries. You're basically on Succor I spam until 50 while relying on pet AI to cover all the rest. Has anyone here ever played an MMO where you have to rely on a fragile, DESTRUCTIBLE pet that responds to commands slowly to cover the bulk of your healing?

In the Primals of Eorzea video they released there is a scene where they zoom in on a Scholar during the Behemoth fight. Behemoth does an AoE and the next thing you see is the Scholar having to stop immediately and start resummoning. Imagine losing the bulk of your healing arsenal when you need it the most. Think about it.

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Originally Posted by Shuho

From what I read on some topic on web SCH is pure aoe heal and WHM is single target so ofc those two will need to be in 8+ raid, cuz WHM will concentrate on tank and SCH on rest party, there is no such thing of better healer.

other argument between those two is secondary stat u need for WHM its spell speed, and SCH its critical hit/heal.

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1. Have you ever played a MMO before? Of course there will be a "better healer." People will calculate and find which healer is better at certain fights or in certain circumstances. There is no getting around this in the current generation of MMOs.

2. SCH actually has less AoE capability, less potent AoE heals, and a smaller radius in which they can heal than a WHM.

3. We really will not know what stats to use or stack when we get there and people do some hard number crunching on the matter.

To note, should any of us be really taking about this "leaked" information? Has Square told we could?

My take is the SCH is a mitigation healer ( ie lessens the total amount of damage taken ) vs. the WHM as a more traditional HPS healer ( think Shaman healer vs Cleric in EQ2 if that helps). If that holds out to be true then both will be wanted for the the harder content and which is better will depend on the fight.

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Originally Posted by Dractus

Does anyone know if the arcanist will be able to que as a healer for dungeons up to 35? i know in Beta 4 they could not was hoping it changed

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Arcanist queues as Dps

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Originally Posted by Lebeau

Not seeing any validity to the OP cries. You're basically on Succor I spam until 50 while relying on pet AI to cover all the rest. Has anyone here ever played an MMO where you have to rely on a fragile, DESTRUCTIBLE pet that responds to commands slowly to cover the bulk of your healing?

In the Primals of Eorzea video they released there is a scene where they zoom in on a Scholar during the Behemoth fight. Behemoth does an AoE and the next thing you see is the Scholar having to stop immediately and start resummoning. Imagine losing the bulk of your healing arsenal when you need it the most. Think about it.

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Pets will have ae immunities and/or -pdt/-mdt on aes from what we've seen in the first few dungeons. You notice this in copperbell when a bomb goes off and you don't recall your pet. Anyone else that stays in that circle dies, carbuncle doesn't. This is pretty typical in more recent MMOs(and could lead to exploits later down the line but SE'll just have to deal with that when it comes up). That scholar probably lost track of its pet's health which a sch or smn or acn should not ever do.

It would be absolutely silly if sch's fairy pet was that fragile when it provides a good chunk of sch's contribution to the party.

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Originally Posted by Namae

No, Topaz is broken because you dont even NEED a tank anymore... I know, I tried it myself, tanked through Tam Tara and Copperbell with it without tank in the party, and he never came close to dying
The bottomline is Arcanist doubles as Tank AND healer, meaning you could go into a dungeon with 1x ACN + 3x THM and completely wreck stuff... Why bother wasting 2 party slots with a tank and a healer?
Yes, its low level content, but it still shouldnt be like that

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Who cares? It is only useful in the low end of things, and only with mediocre DPS. If you didn't have a tank that could hold threat better than a carbuncle, you played with either some A) Terrible tanks or B) Terrible dps (or both). It is one of those silly party tricks that will only work while people don't have their class defining capabilities, or in an inefficient pinch later on. You have a fraction of the control over carbuncle that a tank does over the dungeon. Just no.

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Originally Posted by Namae

Meanwhile, my lvl 20 CNJ in B4 heals for the same amount as my lvl 30 CNJ did in B3

Anway, I hate pet classes, always the same broken crap in every game... Playing an Arcanist in this game so far feels like cheating pretty much, since you can do everything
And there goes my 3rd daily post, with more ACN rage... The nerfs cant come soon enough



No, Topaz is broken because you dont even NEED a tank anymore... I know, I tried it myself, tanked through Tam Tara and Copperbell with it without tank in the party, and he never came close to dying
The bottomline is Arcanist doubles as Tank AND healer, meaning you could go into a dungeon with 1x ACN + 3x THM and completely wreck stuff... Why bother wasting 2 party slots with a tank and a healer?
Yes, its low level content, but it still shouldnt be like that

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Seriously though, you're talking about level 20 content.

can a lv 30 scholar que for healer? That's all i really want to know. lol.

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Originally Posted by Swick

can a lv 30 scholar que for healer? That's all i really want to know. lol.

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I would assume that once you unlock the job, you will be recognized as a healer. Hopefully, this is the case.

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Originally Posted by Brizee

I would assume that once you unlock the job, you will be recognized as a healer. Hopefully, this is the case.

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Think we'll have all the necessary tools at level 30 to be a proficient healer? Or will running a lv 30 sch, be like banging your head against the wall... lol

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Originally Posted by Swick

Think we'll have all the necessary tools at level 30 to be a proficient healer? Or will running a lv 30 sch, be like banging your head against the wall... lol

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You just make the pet do the heavy lifting. You're missing only one burst heal and one AoE heal at level 30, and it's pretty easy to put them in -- one with pet, one as level 30 SCH ability.

I tried doing some math on the preliminary potencies, but there just isn't enough information to make any kind of reliable evaluation on theoretical balance. ACN MND is absolute crap, you know, but it's hard to say where you'll come in after gear relative to WHM. It will doubtlessly be lower, giving WHM more healed per potency, but exactly how much is pretty well up for grabs. Anything about pet healing potency is just a wild guess at this point. Does it come with a built-in Maim&Mend trait? Does it inherit SCH stats or have its own growth? It'll be some time before we know for sure.

Honestly, the most exciting thing about SCH is how brilliantly it should work with WAR.

Scholar will be the most wanted class in game.:)

Naturally I have never played a scholar before, however looking at the general ability layouts of the scholar and the whitemage, it looks like they will actually both compliment each other really well (assuming 8man+ raids, of course). The buffs that come with scholars would be useful for the whitemage to throw out big cures without draining their mp, and the whitemage can pull characters from the brink of death without so much as batting an eyelid.

At the end of the day, I expect the "favoured" class will be situational to what you are doing, they seem to have a good idea of how to spread out the various healing abilities and expertises over the two, and I look forward to seeing how they both work out.

Have we confirmed that SCH fairies have unlimited resources and are only cooldown limited like the carbuncle? They might have MP which may drastically reduce their effectiveness.

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Originally Posted by Draemos

Have we confirmed that SCH fairies have unlimited resources and are only cooldown limited like the carbuncle? They might have MP which may drastically reduce their effectiveness.

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They dont have MP but the fact that you cant use their abilties when you are channeling a cast is really bad.

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Originally Posted by Glide

From the last podcast:
Q7: Will the arcanist’s attribute points be shared between summoner and scholar?

A7: No, they will not be shared.

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You obviously misread that statement... any ACN that goes SMN and SCH will have to allocate points 15int and 15 mind as the ALLOCATED points are shared but at 50 GEAR will vary. So yes points are shared but you will need 2 gear sets

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Originally Posted by Draemos

Have we confirmed that SCH fairies have unlimited resources and are only cooldown limited like the carbuncle? They might have MP which may drastically reduce their effectiveness.

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only cooldown, when i was doing my tests I went afk for good 10 mins and pet was still healing.
also I think ppl found about this already but all pet have innate 80% AoE damage reduction, note that there is not difference between both Carby in terms of defense against direct damage, just one with 3 times HP over the other.

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Originally Posted by Kupo_Nut

only cooldown, when i was doing my tests I went afk for good 10 mins and pet was still healing.
also I think ppl found about this already but all pet have innate 80% AoE damage reduction, note that there is not difference between both Carby in terms of defense against direct damage, just one with 3 times HP over the other.

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Emerald does have slightly lower defence than Topaz, it's just not the hp difference.

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Originally Posted by Rillifane

Emerald does have slightly lower defence than Topaz, it's just not the hp difference.

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I see, I did the test in phase 4 at low level on low numbers so I couldn't tell, as the damage was almost the same give or take.
also did you do this with the same gear on the same monster (wait for respawn)? as the pet attribute scale with your gear.

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Originally Posted by Kupo_Nut

I see, I did the test in phase 4 at low level on low numbers so I couldn't tell, as the damage was almost the same give or take.
also did you do this with the same gear on the same monster (wait for respawn)? as the pet attribute scale with your gear.

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Yeah my gear hasn't changed a lot between using the different pet types there is some minor differences between the damages taken between tank > caster, then as summoner tank > melee > caster. In short battles its barely noticeable but in longer battles that little extra damage taken adds up to quite a fair bit, means having to use sustain more, or healing him yourself with physick or a conj/whm healing him.

I'm using DF as SCH first time, the 2 guys left without a word for Brayflox Content.... can anyone tell me what's wrong?