They made quest battles too easy.

I'm carrying this sentiment over from the beta forums since it is a big deal for me and, judging from the posts there, a lot of other people.

The biggest reason I want to play FFXIV after aesthetics is challenging, well-designed episodic story content. Yes, that is more important to me than end-game (please don't tell me to "wait for endgame", not only does that not answer my concerns in this case, that is the oldest line in the book for new MMOs and it never works). Endgame is more of a grind (softened through community relationships) that just holds me over until the next patch of new episodic content. I can explain it like a series of main scenario quests being a true (co-op) Final Fantasy game in itself (except way more fun and rewarding at times, see: FFXI's Chains of Promathia), packaged as a traditional videogame within a bigger whole. The MMO-ness outside of that is the lesser part, mainly meant to keep me playing, which I'll do if it means more of that well-designed core.

Though I have my problems with the combat system (both in attribute mechanics and how it feels), I was 100% on board with this game with phase 3. It was beautiful and it had challenging, level-capped quests. To be honest, I was ecstatic and felt respect towards developers willing to make their battle system (i.e their game) matter as early as level 15. It made me think they actually cared about the game being more than a skinner's box.

Then the developers immediately backpedaled and turned the quest battles into absolute jokes, worst than what I'm used to in most games on "very easy" difficulties. This is the result of adding not one or two or even three changes, but several, including a meaty nerf to enemies that makes some battles play themselves thanks to NPCs. No longer do they even teach you how to play your class role (a genius aspect), because they've become brainless fluff. I'm well aware there was some backlash, but there is always going to be some backlash and immediately discarding your vision to appease people who may not actually understand what you are trying to do just makes for a more boring game. This is exactly what happened with FFXIV. The game is now less fun and I no longer give that recognition to the devs. I'm pretty pessimistic about future content, as they've been shown to care more about quieting voices than having their own as game designers. They made some good changes on helping people understand these quests more (along with some balance ones, like antidote changes), but they also completely and utterly stripped them of their interesting qualities.

I've said enough for now. Do you agree or disagree? I hope the devs see this, as it will likely decide for how long I'll play this game. (Like I said, end-game just holds me over for the main scenario and major side quests.)

EDIT: Well, I'll add what I think is the most simplistic fix, just so people understand my position:

Keep the changes like quest hints, antidote/poison, etc.
Turn it back to how difficult it was for Phase 3.
Have the easy mode enchantment only appear after a few deaths. Make it optional.
Give bonus EXP to those who complete the quest without it.
(A little more difficult) Give Thaumaturge's Scathe some healing utility. Like a drain spell. (TBH, Scathe is kind of boring/unnecessary with there being no elemental weaknesses to make fire ever disadvantageous and fire/ice/thunder already being their main spells.)

I agree with the lacking in difficulty with in the game. I'd just like to add that not only do I hope that SE can adjust the straight up difficulty of monster/quest game play, I'm really hoping for a more diverse range of challenges.

What I mean by this is that I believe players would enjoy a level of difficulty within the game that goes beyond a challenge for their individual characters. As a simple example would be a challenge on a map scaled event, which would request (but scaled as to not become mandatory) every player on the map to join in a large event which requires more than 1 tank, 1 healer and a couple of DPS. Something that would require role rotations as well as public participation of either aggro shifting or contributing to different objectives within the same public conflict.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Final Fantasy XIV ARR is a MMO aimed at a large number of players, thus it should diverse from the tradition Final Fantasy battle style of "Engagement of Random Encounters" within a player vs environment situation. Allow more fluid transition between the influence of a single player on an event or challenge which incorporate many players. While each individual tasks is doable, but for the overall event to achieve success, players would need to accomplish different goals (which means more than just the separate killing of the same mob types).

Yes, the game should be more challenging, definitely. I am writing just in hope that players also hope for a more dynamic range of challenges with a more layered approach to what the world could throw at us :)

I feel the same, the difficulty on beta 3 was much better, now its almost a joke... I understand that a lot of people had problems, but god, if you can't complete a quest at lvl 15, go to level up, get better gear, not just complain and wait for developers to lower down the difficulty... If hundreds of players can complete a quest, why do they have to lower down the difficulty because some others can't?

I had a lot of fun on beta 3, I liked almost every aspect of the game, now on beta 4... not so much... actually I don't find many differences now with ARR and other mmorpgs out there. And yes, I feel the same when I read "wait for the endgame", I want to have fun making quests, going through the story, and grinding, not just making a few hard dungeons over and over, because its almost all you will see at "endgame".

Still, I wouldn't like a drain spell for thaumaturges, if their hp is low its because their damage is big, if they are going to make them cappable of healing, then lower their damage.

I don't care about getting more exp if making the quests on a hard difficulty, I wouldn't event mind getting less exp on hard, I care more about the fun I will have when making this quests.

The difficulty at low level is downright insulting right now. I'm really looking forward if they have listen to the complaint other then 3132 error.

If the difficulty get hard after lvl 20 then I'm fine whit it.... but from what i understand it's still way too easy after... They really should put Phase 3 difficulty back and add the buff when you fail a couple of time...

RE: Mirania. I could see why you say you don't care about the extra EXP. To be honest, I don't care about the EXP itself either. In the end, I would gladly accept every other condition without earning the extra exp for not having the enchantment. This is somewhat off-topic, but I'll explain myself anyway. The reason I suggest it is twofold.

First, it means the game acknowledges the player making the choice to disadvantage themselves and has unique feedback for it. It is hard for me to explain simply in words, but think of choosing "easy" or "hard" (well, enchantment or not, in this case) as strategic choices made within the game, not outside it (it should be easy enough since the enhancement is literally an in-game buff and not a "mode"). Most people who would opt for a harder mode are likely also those who want to fight at their best and push themselves. This means using all of their options and not holding back. So there is cognitive dissonance involved with actively throwing away your best options (the enchantment) so you can have a difficult fight using other options. Did we really have a difficult fight if we had to hide our arm behind our back first? What the reward does is change the game; it makes for a new goal. While aiming for this goal, discarding the enchantment isn't disadvantaging ourselves, it becomes the (only) means to an end. Even this as a solution isn't 100% satisfactory to me, but it turns the tables and makes it way easier to deal with it.

Second, it makes it appealing to people who normally would skip right to the easiest option. It means those people will expose themselves to this kind of content more, or at least the feeling triumph over it. This will not only improve their skills, but it may help them appreciate the difference in satisfaction between easy and hard. This is good for people who already like hard content for two reasons. One, more people will like difficult content for the fun of it instead of the EXP. Two, more people will be able to tackle hard content through experience. This means the developer is encouraged to continue building skillful encounters and make them more challenging. If a developer actively works to keep their audience's skill and taste for difficulty stagnant at a low level, then that means they will be unable to truly focus on the content I would like. It is just not a good use of their time. Trying to elevate people gives much more room for challenging design. See, something like guildhests in FFXIV is really good for the game, but can you really say that they make use of those complex boss mechanics at this point?

They definitely made the 15 fight way easier (I pulled the mage too right from the start and tanked him the whole time while fighting the demon lol, made things interesting) but we'll have to wait and see if this level of difficulty is indicative of the rest of the game. While I personally didn't have any problems with the fight, it did ramp up the difficulty very quickly and I could see it causing problems for more casual players. I'm all for difficulty and challenge, but honestly with how hard the fight was, the difficulty seemed like more of an oversight than an intentional design decision. However, not all hope is lost. Perhaps the higher levels will have harder fights (take COP: Promy's at 30 weren't too bad, but were baby town frolics compared to the Airship) but we'll have to wait and see. We don't have a good frame of reference for quest content past 20+, aside from some limited 35 content in P3. However even that could have changed too: maybe the 15 fight is easier but the 35 content is harder? We'll just have to wait and see.


I don't know if it's anywhere else now, but a few months back on the Beta Forums Yoshi-P made a several pages long post about designing MMO mechanics and such, and his thoughts for balancing, difficulty, progression, and whatnot. Worth a read if you can find it somewhere. He wants a relatively simple battle system and fights in the beginning to ease players in. That being said, however, I think with this buff after you die a few times, they can afford to be a bit more bold with the difficulty, and those who need the boost can take it.

TL;DR: Sorry, but I have to be one of those guys lol. "We'll just have to wait and see what the rest of the content is like." Well, at least I didn't tell you to wait for endgame :p

Also, I haven't used my THM/BLM much so I don't know about Scathe, but you can try subbing Cure or Physick to help with solo healing. It'll heal for a laughable amount later on, but early in it should be pretty good. That being said though, a defensive panic heal could be nice, maybe a reverse convert, MP to HP. Heck, maybe we even get one from a 30+ class quest. Again, we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm really looking forward to see content the Patch update that happen today... i'll be very glad to see "balance difficulty of some monster & event & dungeon in the game", but it will probably not happen...

You really shouldn't be worried about the difficulty of questing. It isn't meant to be challenging and never was even in 1.0. Though 1.0 had very few quests, the leveling in 1.0 wasn't hard either. Everyone that has ever played an MMO knows that the difficult content is the end game content. The hard mode dungeons and primals, not to mention the crystal tower. SE would alienate a large portion of their users if they were to make questing too difficult. It is meant to be fun, not difficult. Wait until we have access to the end game content before you complain about the game being too easy.

I wholeheartedly agree with your entire post except your list of suggestions. I would simply like to see a role back to the difficulty level of Phase 3 and for them to keep the retry buff, which I hear can be clicked off.

Phase 3 had me very excited for the final release. I noticed the level caps on the instanced quest content kept people from simply leveling their way out of challenging situation. I thought "Wow... this game might get pretty tough if they're actually making people to learn to play." It was a beautiful experience. In contrast, I didn't find myself engaged at all in Phase 4. The whole experience was simply a grind. Now I'm doubting the "challenging end-game content" promise and considering rushing through the content to get to experience it before it gets nerfed.

@Ninimo_Babamo - 1.0 didn't do very well, so it's not a very good game to point at as an example. Mixing in more challenging content into the normal grind set FF14:ARR apart in a very refreshing way. What makes you think the end-game content will be challenging considering the gamers they're catering too. Having seen what the game could be in comparison to see what we were told will be the final release has made a lot of people sad.

I agree that the challenge level is disappointing. If difficulty was such a major concern, an ability to change difficulty level during instanced solo battles would have been a better option. I was surprised to see the echo buff after only the first death in an instance, and I was at the lowest possible level for the instance. I expected that it would only appear if a person died at the highest level for that instance. (Such as - if an instance would level set you to 15, you would only be awarded the echo buff if you died while 15.) I didnt know that you could click the buff off, but I really don't think that at the lowest level you should be awarded this buff anyways. The devs should be encouraging building up skills and stats rather than just allowing players to push through battles. Needless to say, I succeeded with the buff, and I didn't feel that sense of accomplishment that comes with dying then working hard until I can finally succeed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ninimo_Babamo

You really shouldn't be worried about the difficulty of questing. It isn't meant to be challenging and never was even in 1.0.

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So, essentially, you didn't read my post at all. Well, I'll reply anyway to your sentiment.

Just because MMORPGs expect you to lower your standards, doesn't mean you should. I would not play any other videogame that took dozens and dozens of hours before the central combat system started to matter (moreover, for it to only matter for a treadmill experience of gear-checks). There being a trend of low level content being meaningless fluff to take up the time of players is not a valid excuse. This is something you've just come to expect and will settle for (and thus the MMORPG genre will not improve). You would maybe have a point if the game didn't already show it can be something more.

As for new players, there are ways to help them through. Ways they've already implemented, ranging from fair (more hints, items improved) to very hand-holdy (failure enchantment). These were added alongside a fun-destroying nerfs (and the failure enchantment being pushed too hard). You may be thinking "but they can't do it!" I'm sorry, but this whole attitude is the result of buying too much into the idea that players must be patronized to no end, that they are helpless children that must be carried place to place. The fact is that players do have problem-solving skills and if you are half way generous with tips and tools, they will solve those problems (ARR without the nerf is certainly more than half way with its generosity). People already play videogames harder than this - Final Fantasy games. Monster Hunter is the second most popular franchise in Japan, highly competitive FPS and mobile puzzle games are the most popular in the west. Don't make it seem the difficulty curve isn't there, it is with lv. 5 and 10 main scenario and class quests (or it was, now it is just a flat-line). If anything, the difficulty spike was caused by people not understanding poison or that you shouldn't attack the mage - in other words, a lack of understanding of the basic rules of that scenario, not an inability to do it.

Also you are wrong about 1.0 never being challenging. It did towards the end of the Grand Company quests and several of the job quests. The Nael van Darnus fight was easily the highlight of the game to me. The thing is, it would have been even earlier if they employed level caps - like ARR does now (thank god). The main scenario of 1.0 was a complete mess of design, which allowed crafting and gathering classes to take part in combat scenarios.

Me against the golem boss:

First 5 minutes: Did a single WS. Then took off auto-attack and stood around practicing emotes.

Next 20 minutes: AFK'd to take a shower and read some websites.

Last 5 minutes: Came back and still had more than 3/4th of my health. Finally killed it with auto attack. Didn't dodge any of the AoEs (did 10-20 damage to me).

This has been the most interesting battle so far. Think I'm going to see how it feels play with my character completely naked and using the level 1 Axe.

EDIT: TRUE Final Fantasy Experience, says Yoshi-P.

it's sad because of the server problem they probably don't event care about this problem. The dungeon are really challenging right now (just did the lvl 35 it was amazing feeling). But quest monster are quite boring... i die once because of agro. It's get harder at 40 ? somebody reach this ?

Agreed. I'm also hate the fact this game seems to be generic quest hub jumping. I'm level 27 and it's just solo play pretty much. The only time I've grouped is for instanced mindless dungeons in which nobody even talks to each other, they mind as well be bots. The difficulty and social aspect doesn't seem to be there. Does this change at all higher up?

The difficulty in beta 3 was near freaking perfect as long as it would scale higher as you leveled up it was great..
In it's current state it's truly , as some have said, downright insulting, how can you call something a game or challenge when you literally are not a driving factor in what's happening, you can just stand there and watch the npcs do the job in a lot of the quests.
This seriously needs to be changed.. the majority was against any lowering in difficulty. Changing it because of some stupid, and very little, group of whiners was a very bad move.

I'm asking myself if they have test the modification in Phase 4, because the difficulty nerf is extreme ... and the removal of elemental wheel is just plain stupid. I thought they would have balance everything out for the release but server problem so to take 100% of their time...

To bad they delete the feedback section during beta forum a lot of people was complaining about this..

I challenge folks to do the class quests for ACN or CNJ. Where all of a sudden the game switches from KILL THIS MOB to imma gonna through multiple mobs in your face and you have to keep NPCs alive without having the benefit of a party interface to monitor their health.

It's not "easy" and that's level 15 content.

So yes, they made the level 15 story quest easier. But most of the rest of the solo instances have not been. Easy for you does not equal easy for everyone. You want tougher, level up and do the hard mode primals, or the Bahumet raid.

SERIOUSLY if u had problems with those fights there something very wrong with you the difficulty of the main story quest or any quest for that matter it's down right insulting there no feeling of accomplishment after beating the main story and getting my magitek mount. I DONT FEEL LIKE I A CCOMPLISHED ANTHING more like I was jumping from npc to npc killing everything in my way. even in the open world there are no "OH SHIT RUN" mobs >:( I hope the endgame is not soo easy mode.