Stats & Bonus Points

As FFXIV:ARR is about to kick off, I am looking to see thoughts and opinions on how the revised WHM class will change point allocation style of the old WHM of 1.0. Any Long Time Legacy or 1.0 WHM's have any good insight on where to place them?

Didn't play 1.0, but with cleric stance points in INT seem worthless, that pretty much leads to pie mind or vit if your really gunning for that extra HP. I don't know if anybodies done the math for calculating mp costs (its based on your mp iirc?) so until them tests are done I personally will be taking the extra potency from mind which also doubles up as more INT for nuking with cleric stance up.

All 30 points into MND.

That's why I really don't like this point system. What does it really add to the game if it's only optimal to put them all into a main stat? if anything it gimps the Arcanist who can branch into a healer or caster dps.

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Originally Posted by Sebastianaru

That's why I really don't like this point system. What does it really add to the game if it's only optimal to put them all into a main stat? if anything it gimps the Arcanist who can branch into a healer or caster dps.

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You'll be able to re-spec your points and most people will favor one over the other.

I must say, for most jobs aside from tanks, the points are worthless. Everyone just puts them in primary stat and forgets about it. All this does is gimp arcanist. Tanks have some choice, but not enough to even warrant them IMO.

They should just give everyone the extra 30 to primary stat as you level up and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by VanWulfen

You'll be able to re-spec your points and most people will favor one over the other.

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But they've already stated that changing your stats won't be something you can do on a whim and this ideology flies directly in the face of the "play anything you want" style that the armoury system is supposed to foster. The current stat distribution system is little more than an illusion of choice.

The real kicker though is that those 30 stat points probably won't make any real difference to your ability to complete content... it's just going to make people who play arcanist a little uneasy that sometimes they will play a class that feels like it can't ever be optimal.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

stuff that made me exceed the character limit

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Forgive my ignorance, however if you get your stat points allocated every however many levels, what does where you put your stats as a CNJ have to do with where you put your stats as a GLD (or anything else)? I know for fact that the points I put into MND when I was conjuring did not end up in my MND when I was... Gladiating?

At any rate, I don't think where you put your stat points will have any bearing at all with your stats as another class.

Edit: Oh, I get it... you arcanists and your "I can slot dps or healing soul" dilema :p

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Originally Posted by Ferth

But they've already stated that changing your stats won't be something you can do on a whim and this ideology flies directly in the face of the "play anything you want" style that the armoury system is supposed to foster. The current stat distribution system is little more than an illusion of choice.

The real kicker though is that those 30 stat points probably won't make any real difference to your ability to complete content... it's just going to make people who play arcanist a little uneasy that sometimes they will play a class that feels like it can't ever be optimal.

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Looks like your Summoner will have some extra healing power then.

I chose Mi'Qote Keepers of the moon for the 23 MND base stats. Considering that I have Cleric Stance, I'm thinking of just dropping points into more MND, VIT for survivability, and possible some into PIE in case I have mana issues. I'll have to see how my mana issues are for sustained fights, but other than that, MND and VIT all the way.

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Originally Posted by Foulander

I chose Mi'Qote Keepers of the moon for the 23 MND base stats. Considering that I have Cleric Stance, I'm thinking of just dropping points into more MND, VIT for survivability, and possible some into PIE in case I have mana issues. I'll have to see how my mana issues are for sustained fights, but other than that, MND and VIT all the way.

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The base stats will not matter from start to endgame unlike the horror stories I've heard about XI. They are purely there for lore baed reasons

I did 20 MND/10 VIT.

I did more than enough events in 1.0 where I would be partied with another WHM and the only reason we didn't wipe was because I was able to survive whatever attack with even a few HP where the other WHM simply died. I will need to see how MP is in high tier fights, PIE might be useful as higher MP = more MP recovered per tic.

For now the MND potency is like super awesome STACK MND when u can, and a bit of VIT if you feel like you're super squishy.

All piety I'd rather have more mana.

I've put a little in piety but mostly going with mind, which is prob the worst thing to do... I should just have picked one shouldnt I?!!

Maybe there'll be a RDM type job with a cross-class Refresh meaning the max MP isn't so important.

A lot will depend on how future support classes go (is there a Mage's Ballad for bard? I haven't played it yet)

Hi OP,

At the moment, I feel the stat points would benefit in one of three areas.

Vitality for increased max HP.
Mind for increased healing magic potency. When using the ability, Cleric's Stance, the Mind stat is used for attack magic potency instead.
Piety for increased max MP, increased MP regen in-combat, and increased MP regen between encounters.

From what I have seen so far in Phase 4 / Open Beta, I am personally pursuing Mind for stat point for increased healing during most encounters. I hope to make up any shortcomings in my max HP through gear, such as +Mind accessories melded with +Vitality materia. Will need to gauge how Shroud of Saints and supplementary MP from Bard's Mage Ballad play in before considering Piety (MP did not seem an issue as much in Phase 4 content as it did in Phase 3).

Should I encounter a series of area attacks or misfortunes that a durable healer could have endured, I will most likely adopt the "a dead healer is no healer at all" philosophy and respec to include Vitality, preferably until I can survive with a full Stoneskin.

there is indeed mages ballad, but with both THM and ACN able to recover their own mp bards usually sing the TP refresh song for the DD in extended fights convincing them to sing for just you may require some work~

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Originally Posted by Ferth

But they've already stated that changing your stats won't be something you can do on a whim and this ideology flies directly in the face of the "play anything you want" style that the armoury system is supposed to foster. The current stat distribution system is little more than an illusion of choice.

The real kicker though is that those 30 stat points probably won't make any real difference to your ability to complete content... it's just going to make people who play arcanist a little uneasy that sometimes they will play a class that feels like it can't ever be optimal.

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it makes a difference but its not so big a difference that a few points to another stat will hurt me... ie ACN who will have 15int/15min if you try to do both. Atleast in beta 4 i didnt notice much of a difference while healing myself before and after applying points. My gear with cure potency +?% seems to do more than allocating points to mind.

How does the stat relocation work at later levels? How much does it cost? Is it based on level or?

Curious to know if I can add stats for low level play, but once I am higher level re do them to stack MND or something, without it costing more.

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Originally Posted by AAAFate

How does the stat relocation work at later levels? How much does it cost? Is it based on level or?

Curious to know if I can add stats for low level play, but once I am higher level re do them to stack MND or something, without it costing more.

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For low or high level play it doesn't affect the play as much as you would want.. For a WHM Cure potency +? and +?% adds more to healing than mind. Not that its not important to spec well. The points are best used where you feel you have the greatest weakness as a healer. If you trust in your mana usage/control place all to mind, otherwise piety would benefit you more

The difference in MND seemed to be too minimal to care about.

However, if fights ever drag out long enough, putting points into PIE seems like it can be useful at endgame. (Not for simply having a larger pool, I dont even look at that as a reason)

The sole reason being In Combat MP Refresh.

You regen 2% of your max MP every tick (3 seconds) during combat.

So if combat drags out long enough, and u have enough MP, u can see a reasonable amount of mp coming back to u every tick.
But until I can compare endgame stats to eachother, and know how long fights drag out (if at all) I cant really make a good comparison of the 2 stats.

Stacking piety on white mage is absolutly useless. There is no real reason to put points into anything else besides mind and it influces your average heal well. Adding in 10 points of mind on a person that has a weapon with 61 magic damage, 202 determation (Which is your lv50's base DTR iirc), goes from the average cure I heal of 409HP(272MND) to 421HP (282MND). Even further, they made heals even stronger in phase 4, such as making Cure I 400 potency instead of 300.

What's the point of stacking for MP when you have Mage's Ballard, Shroud of Saints that gives you a refresh potency of 80 along with cutting your enmity by half and items, to keep your MP up.

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Originally Posted by VanWulfen

Stacking piety on white mage is absolutly useless. There is no real reason to put points into anything else besides mind and it influces your average heal well. Adding in 10 points of mind on a person that has a weapon with 61 magic damage, 202 determation (Which is your lv50's base DTR iirc), goes from the average cure I heal of 409HP(272MND) to 421HP (282MND). Even further, they made heals even stronger in phase 4, such as making Cure I 400 potency instead of 300.

What's the point of stacking for MP when you have Mage's Ballard, Shroud of Saints that gives you a refresh potency of 80 along with cutting your enmity by half and items, to keep your MP up.

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Yeah for whm piety doesn't seem that useful, but could be different for scholar, as only part of their job is healing, another part of a scholar's role is still keeping their dots up. Not to mention the fairies heal as well and i don't think they take any advantage of increasing a scholar base MND.

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Originally Posted by Rillifane

Yeah for whm piety doesn't seem that useful, but could be different for scholar, as only part of their job is healing, another part of a scholar's role is still keeping their dots up. Not to mention the fairies heal as well and i don't think they take any advantage of increasing a scholar base MND.

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They won't have that much trouble keeping their mana pool up with similar reasons I listed except they have Energy Drain instead of Shroud of Saints, which half of the damage you deal is returned to you as HP and MP. At level 36, you get a trait that doubles the amount of MP you gain so it effectively becomes 100%, along with being on a separate cooldown but it does use one of your aether stacks which stacks up to three.

Quick note is that SCH gets access to Cleric Stance so if extra damage is needed, you can do a quick switch and that switches your INT and MND.

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Originally Posted by VanWulfen

They won't have that much trouble keeping their mana pool up with similar reasons I listed except they have Energy Drain instead of Shroud of Saints, which half of the damage you deal is returned to you as HP and MP. At level 36, you get a trait that doubles the amount of MP you gain so it effectively becomes 100%, along with being on a separate cooldown but it does use one of your aether stacks which stacks up to three.

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If i'm not mistaken they won't be using energy drain as much as some of their other abilities need to consume that buff to be used. (Lustrate and sacred soil both need it). Plus the amount of MP restored is based upon the damage you dealt, so INT would help that.

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Originally Posted by Rillifane

If i'm not mistaken they won't be using energy drain as much as some of their other abilities need to consume that buff to be used. (Lustrate and sacred soil both need it). Plus the amount of MP restored is based upon the damage you dealt, so INT would help that.

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Yeah, I know about the others moves and INT is still a use for SCH, like you said. It'll most likely boil down to INT vs MND on SCH, so maybe 15/15 would be the optimal way to go but putting PIE isn't worth it. Plus Energy Drain has 150 potency which is a great.

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Originally Posted by VanWulfen

Yeah, I know about the others moves and INT is still a use for SCH. It'll most likely boil down to INT vs MND on SCH. Maybe 15/15 would be the optimal way to go but putting PIE isn't worth it.

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Yeah i haven't spent any points on my arcanist till i see what the stats are like at 50 with the job stone equipped then balance myself around that possibly. And what if they adjust piety to grant bonuses to the summon's stats, think it might become useful even as extra "materia" stats on stat capped gear?

As for cleric's stance, jobs only have access to 5 cross class skills, so depending on party set up and such you may or may not have room for cleric's stance. For me i'll mostly be running with stoneskin, swift cast and surecast as a base line, leaving just 2 left open. 1 for protect when there's no other whm in the group (4 mans or 2x sch groups).

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Originally Posted by Rillifane

Yeah i haven't spent any points on my arcanist till i see what the stats are like at 50 with the job stone equipped then balance myself around that possibly. And what if they adjust piety to grant bonuses to the summon's stats, think it might become useful even as extra "materia" stats on stat capped gear?

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Can't say for sure until we get to test it our ourselves and I don't think they would put in a modifier for piety for Summoner but Square's is known for it's shenanigans in FFXI but I don't think that'll be a problem here. As for Summoner, it'll probably be INT from what I've seen. We'll find out tomorrow though :)

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Originally Posted by VanWulfen

Can't say for sure until we get to test it our ourselves and I don't think they would put in a modifier for piety for Summoner but Square's is known for it's shenanigans in FFXI but I don't think that'll be a problem here. As for Summoner, it'll probably be INT from what I've seen. We'll find out tomorrow though :)

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Yeah it was more a thinking of a way to make the stat more useful as not too many people will be bothering with it, it's just a tiny little extra bonus on gear, even then if people had the option to drop piety on gear and pick up INT/MND/VIT instead i'm sure they would.

So far I used up all my points on MND as well, but I was wondering how many PIE I'm going to need for later/endgame.

Off: Btw how can I get rid of my head/mask on the avatar? :/

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Originally Posted by RainStarfall

there is indeed mages ballad, but with both THM and ACN able to recover their own mp bards usually sing the TP refresh song for the DD in extended fights convincing them to sing for just you may require some work~

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I don't know how it is for ACN, but people seem to not realize that having Ballad on BLM means you can stay in your fire stance for a longer period of time which means that you have a lot less downtime where your damage is low (the time you are waiting on Blizzard ticks).

Also, you don't have to wait for your WHM's MP to be low to sing ballad. Ballad sung early can keep their MP up longer, and later in the fight when DD need TP you can Paeon for them. You can also do the reverse, as long as both DPS and Mages are getting attention at some point.

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Originally Posted by Flemian

So far I used up all my points on MND as well, but I was wondering how many PIE I'm going to need for later/endgame.

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Probably none. My reasoning: Vanya of Healing set (NQ and unmelded with WHM relic) has +18 PIE. Darklight of Healing (Relic weapon) gives +93. AF+1 (with Relic +1 on both WHM and SCH with Hero of Healing accesories) gives +151 PIE. That's not including your base PIE at level 50. Plus with simple AF (and the Chiran staff) I had 4k MP already on my WHM, so unless I'm spamming Cure IIs, MP shouldn't be an issue

MND for CNJ/WHM is the definite go-to stat. Allocate away.

For ACN and its jobs its a harder sell, but Cleric Stance exists. You could attribute full MND for your Arcanist, and then simply click on Cleric's fulltime for whenever you're on Arcanist or Summoner. Not to mention, this would give Scholar an additional option to enhance their DoTs for whenever constant healing isn't needed. And given that CNJ and THM are SMN/SCH's subclasses, I can't think of much else I'd fill the cross-class slots with besides Stoneskin, Aero, Thunder, and Swiftcast anyway. Unless you don't have a CNJ/WHM around, and then you can drop one of the DoTs for Protect.

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Originally Posted by Jeryhn

MND for CNJ/WHM is the definite go-to stat. Allocate away.

For ACN and its jobs its a harder sell, but Cleric Stance exists. You could attribute full MND for your Arcanist, and then simply click on Cleric's fulltime for whenever you're on Arcanist or Summoner. Not to mention, this would give Scholar an additional option to enhance their DoTs for whenever constant healing isn't needed. And given that CNJ and THM are SMN/SCH's subclasses, I can't think of much else I'd fill the cross-class slots with besides Stoneskin, Aero, Thunder, and Swiftcast anyway. Unless you don't have a CNJ/WHM around, and then you can drop one of the DoTs for Protect.

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ACN/SMN cannot use cleric stance. Only SCH can of the arcanist classes, meaning there is no way around the stat differential.

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

Probably none. My reasoning: Vanya of Healing set (NQ and unmelded with WHM relic) has +18 PIE. Darklight of Healing (Relic weapon) gives +93. AF+1 (with Relic +1 on both WHM and SCH with Hero of Healing accesories) gives +151 PIE. That's not including your base PIE at level 50. Plus with simple AF (and the Chiran staff) I had 4k MP already on my WHM, so unless I'm spamming Cure IIs, MP shouldn't be an issue

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A thanks a lot, I haven't played 1.0 nor the first 3 beta and I'm not really into endgame content/stat/sets. Totally forgot about the stats for set bonuses. Thanks! All MND that is, then.

I can't create my own thread yet so tossing here some stat thoughts about the scholar
First a few things to take into account.

Mind (MND) - Healing Magic Potency.
Piety (PIE) – MP Pool

Aetherflow: Restores 20% of maximum MP and on a 1 minute cooldown (it also gives you an awesome 90% damage reduction barrier for 15 seconds)


When ever mind>piety in any situation is going to depend on three things:


1: Succor: Restores target's HP. Cure Potency: 300
Additional Effect: Erects a magicked barrier which nullifies damage equalling the amount of HP restored. When critical HP is restored, damage nullification is doubled for 30s.

Succor2: Restores own HP and the HP of all nearby party members. Cure Potency: 150
Additional Effect: Erects a magicked barrier which nullifies damage equalling the amount of HP restored for 30s.


2: How does the fairy scale with mind/crit and haste?
In fact does it scale at all?


3: How will your mana hold out with a full focus on mind and is it worth putting points in piety at all or is the piety gained from gear good enough.



Will over healing leave shields?

If succor2 will apply the barrier when you overheal you can pre shield people by moving around, this will be very good in 24 man raids.
How ever this will also drain your mana.
In this scenario having a large mana pool will net you more mana back from aetherflow and eventually will net your more healing.


Fairy scaling

Whispering Dawn: Will this scale with haste/crit and will it scale with your mind if so how much (will it get another hot tick?)

Embrace: Same thing.

The reason why this is interesting is because in terms of hps and safety in general having spell speed>crit.
Which means both you and your fairy will have a cast speed of 1.5 in the end instead of 2.0.

Basically if the fairy scales you might not want to use to many points in piety even though you could use the mana to pre shield.
The pets healing might overshadow a bit of your extra mana since I doubt it can use piety (but I'm not sure)



The barrier


Simply put if the barrier won't apply when you over heal there is no point of picking up crit.
In fact in that case you might as well avoid it like the plague.
Even when it applies on crit from succor 1 it's still very questionable when ever you could use it the reason why is this:

Mind: Raw through put
Spell speed: Faster cast/gbc
Piety: In case you go oom and being able to spam more succor 2 pre damage for shields
Crit: Like in any MMORPG unreliable for healers, but if your mana is fine it will net you more healing than piety does.

So what stats does a scholar need?
Until we know how the pet scales it is very hard to say.


Though my main thought would be: MDN>spell haste>piety>crit

I plan on putting points into MND for my CNJ/WHM as well as Scholar I think.

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Originally Posted by Jeryhn

MND for CNJ/WHM is the definite go-to stat. Allocate away.

For ACN and its jobs its a harder sell, but Cleric Stance exists. You could attribute full MND for your Arcanist, and then simply click on Cleric's fulltime for whenever you're on Arcanist or Summoner. Not to mention, this would give Scholar an additional option to enhance their DoTs for whenever constant healing isn't needed. And given that CNJ and THM are SMN/SCH's subclasses, I can't think of much else I'd fill the cross-class slots with besides Stoneskin, Aero, Thunder, and Swiftcast anyway. Unless you don't have a CNJ/WHM around, and then you can drop one of the DoTs for Protect.

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Are you Jeryhn from FFXI/Cerberus? :P

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Originally Posted by Sneakaboo

Edited for length ... stuff about stat priority

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I highly doubt they would exclude overhealing from the shield value of the spells, seeing as pretty much every other mechanic factors overhealing (enmity, for example).

This being said, I believe that it will end up being MND > CRIT > PIE > HASTE

All haste does is (very slightly) speed up your delivery and INCREASE your mana consumption for zero gain in efficiency. Additionally, it has zero effect on regen time/hots, to the best of my knowledge. This isn't a twitch game like WoW where you will be spam bombing huge heals as fast as you can into people, and long encounters will mean that mana efficiency will most likely be king for a long time to come. MND for effectiveness, CRIT for the large succor shields (and more effectiveness), PIE for manapool + regen rate, and then haste last as being only a throughput stat.

Just my 2c.

The basic approach for healers in most MMO's is stack a mana regen until comfortable, rest through put.
Reducing a cast by 0,5 second and having a shorter global cooldown are beneficial in their own right.
It gives you a faster response,allows you to push more healing in a shorter amount of time.
It also makes the stop cast mana management approach saver.

For now the game has given me the impression being faster is better.


I don't think a realm reborn will focus on long 24 man encounters, might be wrong but I assume some where between 8 and 15 minutes.
ARR can be compared to TBC WOW in terms of speed, current wow is a spamfest which trades healing tactics and mana management for spam.


The reason I consider crit to be of low is because it's RNG.
Yes it nets you more big heals but you have no idea when they will land.
If you succor the tank it will be 100% useful but if you top some one with it and you crit then the shield might not be used.


Personally I rather relay on having that extra faster heal than hoping for a crit.

Investing into spell speed is pointless because you need an ungodly amount to make it worthwhile, which only hurts yourself in the end and you don't need to stack piety for mana regen because you have skills that replenish it, along with Bard's MP song and items.