[Suggestion] Lower the ranks required for current story missions

I know that the new Final Fantasy XIV team are working on new quests and story missions/content in general, but what about the current story missions already in game? I think all current story missions, especially those that pick up right after the previous, yet are fairly far apart in rank requirements, should see a reduction is the rank required to access the mission.

A decent amount of the missions currently in game are either just a few cutscenes strung together with some traveling, in order to further the story, or just a simple battle against low level standard enemies, so what should they be so spaced apart in rank?

As things stand now, it takes far too long for players to get into what story is currently available, and once the real meat of the story gets added in future updates, it will take even longer to get to the "good stuff" in a manner of speaking. Honestly, there is no reason why I should complete a cutscene missions at rank 15, only to have to rank up to 25 in order to see another cutscene. At the very least, string the cutscene missions together a little more closely, say access to several at a certain rank, instead of one at a time.

One thing that players look for as far as Final Fantasy feel goes, is the storyline of the game, and the story feels slightly disconnected with such large gaps between seeing story content.

Indeed. The missions are few and far in between, and there isn't much of an incentive or reward to doing them. Since they are designed as a one-size-fits all (any class, even DoH and DoL can do the battle portions), they end up being boring for everyone.

Tailor specific missions to be battle class only, and make it a challenge for battle classes and have it test their skills.

Tailor other specific missions to be crafting class only, and make it a challenge that tests their skills, too.

Same with gathering classes.

Have a players actions in the missions have an influence on the world, and your own character. That way it won't just feel like you're going through the motions.

Agreed, the story doesn't pick up until the final mission and it can take a while to get those missions having them every 5 ranks at the higher end. I would be in favour of them either lowering the rank levels or keeping them as is but adding more missions for your actual city state in between.

Once you hit R20 all the stories mesh together and it seems a bit of a cop out. If the added more missions back in your own starting city state after R20 to do as well that could add a lot more on top of the current story line I think that could work.

Also one of the main problems with the story missions as Rentahamster says is that they have made them so easy because of the DoL/DoH classes. Now the original plan for those classes was that they would fight alongside DoW/DoM classes in battle, I can remember reading that Miner was a THF type class with Treasure Hunter and Steal and Blacksmiths used their hammers in battle, this was all on the official FFXIV site and that info was even still there after launch. However SE obviously pulled all of there abilities to fight and gave them all stone throw. The problem is now that SE have still classified them as a proper class and as such they need to be able to complete the story, but because they removed all their abilities to fight they have had to dumb down the missions like crazy so they can complete them.

SE needs to decide are DoH/DoL proper classes and if so then they need to give them their abilities to fight back, if not then they need to drop them back to being side jobs that you can do on top of you DoW/DoM classes so that they can increase the difficulty of the game. Are we actually supposed to believe that in it's current state a R50 Weaver is going to topple the Garlean Empire???? I think not.

This also goes to explain why Crafting and gathering classes are a ridiculous grind as they were never meant to gain ranks solely from crafting and gathering they were supposed to fight alongside DoL/DoH classes to gain ranks as well.

Annother alternative would be to make main scenario quests unlockable by physical levels rather than class ranks. Much like the main scenario is the core of the game, the physical level is closer to the core of your character, so it would make sense from this perspective.

This would also reward players for diversifying into other classes without holding them back on the main scenario. Unless they focus on just a single class, players are likely to level up and cap their physical level faster than any class rank.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Since they are designed as a one-size-fits all (any class, even DoH and DoL can do the battle portions), they end up being boring for everyone.

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Agreed. But I probably agree because I prefer doing battle-type stuff, so I wanted more of that in the main story quest. Gatherers/crafters probably appreciate the fact that they can take part in the main story quest, too.

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Tailor specific missions to be battle class only, and make it a challenge for battle classes and have it test their skills.

Tailor other specific missions to be crafting class only, and make it a challenge that tests their skills, too.

Same with gathering classes.

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Don't they already do this, with the job quests?

As I was leveling up my highest class (Marauder), I'd get either a job quest or a main story quest every two levels. **EDIT -- sorry, just looked at the Lodestone and realized that this isn't true. You don't get missions every two levels. I must have remembered wrong.** The job quest was tailored to Marauder-type stuff, and the main story quest was sort of the "generally available to everyone" stuff that didn't involve a lot of battle.

Now, admittedly, the Marauder quests often weren't terribly battle-oriented. But they were at least Marauder-oriented, getting into what being a Marauder is all about and setting up conflicts, etc. (I'm trying to be vague to avoid spoilers.)

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Have a players actions in the missions have an influence on the world, and your own character. That way it won't just feel like you're going through the motions.

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This pains me to admit it, but as neat as this would be -- you complete a mission to fight back goblins that have been attacking an NPC's farm, and every time you see him afterward, his clothes are improved, his farm doesn't look so ramshackle, he thanks you profusely for your help, and he offers to sell you his crop at a discount -- there are a couple of problems here.

First, if you do quests with lasting consequences, it means you can't repeat those quests. Do the quest once at level 25 with your Marauder, and you can't do it again when your Lancer hits 25. If we're trying to improve the amount of content, one-time quests help, but repeatable quests help more.

Second, it seems like the new dev team is having to start largely from scratch on the new quests. Adding in code for lasting consequences would take time. They've only got so many devs to crank out new quests and content, so their man-hours are limited. If forced to choose, I'd rather have more quests without lasting consequences as soon as possible, rather than fewer quests with lasting consequences.

Just my opinion, of course. And your posts are always well thought out, so I'd be interested to hear what you've got to say.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

I know that the new Final Fantasy XIV team are working on new quests and story missions/content in general, but what about the current story missions already in game? I think all current story missions, especially those that pick up right after the previous, yet are fairly far apart in rank requirements, should see a reduction is the rank required to access the mission.

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The dev team already tried to address this. But instead of lowering the level requirement to get to the story missions, they increased the rate at which players level up. That makes it possible to get to the story missions easier, so players can enjoy the story missions more quickly.

(By the way, here's a link to the Lodestone setting out the levels for the main storyline quests, job quests, etc. As you can see, at level 34, you start getting main storyline quests every 4 levels. So the rate at which they're offered picks up.)

Plus, if you lower the level requirement for missions, more people would be able to get to them more quickly, but it would create its own set of problems.

For one, if you reduce the level requirement for missions, then you'd have under-leveled players trying to complete more difficult missions. For example, there's one storyline quest at (I believe) level 34 that requires going to Mor Dhona. I did that mission at rank 37, and it took me several hours to run to Mor Dhona because I kept getting killed by aggroing mobs above my level. I died literally dozens of times. I suppose it's possible to do it at level 29, but it would be really, really difficult. Similarly, some of the later missions require you to run through rank 40-ish areas of Uldah, where you can get aggro from Diremites, Buzzards, etc. If you try to run through those areas in the 30s, it's going to be difficult.

Second, if you lowered the level requirement to do the main story quests by 5 levels each, then you could get the missions earlier, but it would leave a hole at the end. The last storyline quest -- currently at level 46 (I think) -- would be bumped down to 41. But then you wouldn't have any storyline quests from 42 to 50. Since it takes about 400,000 SP to get to level 30, and about 1.5 million SP to get from 30 to 50, that would mean that there would be no storyline quests at all for nearly half the game.

I think SE spaced the storyline quests out based on the idea that you couldn't get to the end of the storyline without leveling at least one job to end-game. I think that makes sense. They want to encourage you to stick around for the long-haul. And if they can get you to stick around to see what happens in the storyline quest, then that's a good thing.

Again, just my opinion.

I think they should release the next batch of main scenario quests before raising the rank cap, and adjust the higher-end quests so that they become available in faster intervals. So instead of every 4 ranks, maybe 3 ranks or so (after rank 36 maybe).

Further, they could also change the current class quest ranks from 20, 30, 36 to 20, 24, 28. That, is if they are planning to replace them with advanced classes or specializations at around rank 30 perhaps. Those adv. classes would get their own quests later on, then.

That makes sense that Square wouldnt want people to be able to cut through the missions quickly, only to hit an empty space, but something will need to be adjusted once more story missions are implemented. I think Betelgeuzah has the right idea.

The harder missions bring me to another point. I'm not sure if you can take player parties into future missions, since my sig is evidence enough that i'm not that high yet, but can you bring along a party of people that may be on the same mission? I remember in the beta, some missions wouldn't allow you to take along another person for help. If you could bring along a party for the mission, then you could battle your way across the field to the mission destination. On the same note, are there any missions with actual boss battles yet?

Maybe they werent implemented since the new battle system is still being worked on/refined, and perhaps its just past FFXI experience talking, but i'd expect to have fought at least one boss in a party by rank 25-30. Even more so with Uematsu at the helm for the soundtrack, since he really delivers when it comes to boss themes.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

That makes sense that Square wouldnt want people to be able to cut through the missions quickly, only to hit an empty space, but something will need to be adjusted once more story missions are implemented. I think Betelgeuzah has the right idea.

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But wouldn't Betel's suggestion just create a hole later on? Or, I suppose they could work now to fill the hole before they raise level cap? I'd be good with that :D.

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The harder missions bring me to another point. I'm not sure if you can take player parties into future missions, since my sig is evidence enough that i'm not that high yet, but can you bring along a party of people that may be on the same mission?

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First of all, don't let anyone fool you. At some point, we were all below your level. And just having a higher number next to your job doesn't make you a better player. Considering you're coming from XI, I'm guessing you've got plenty of experience and know what you're doing.

Second, some of the later quests do allow you to bring along party members. I think one mission allows you to bring along 4 party members? I soloed them all so far, but I know some folks who have brought along others for storyline quests.

I will say that some LS mates were duoing the Mor Dhona mission at around level 35, and they were still having some serious problems getting out there. (After an hour or so of steady dying, they were ready to give up, so I ended up just teleporting them to the crystal.) So you'd probably need a fairly large party to make it at around level 30. Or, just be more skilled than I am. But really, I'm sure you could probably get a party of 15 to get to the missions, and then split up for the actual mission itself.

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On the same note, are there any missions with actual boss battles yet?

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I haven't actually finished the r46 quest yet -- because I'm lazy -- but other than that, there aren't any really big boss fights that I've come across. Don't get me wrong, there are battles, and I've already heard that the r46 quest will involve one, but the ones I've done so far don't really strike me as epic boss battles yet.

I think the problem -- as others have mentioned -- is that they're trying to let crafters/gatherers/solo players complete the main storyline quest, too. You can't really beat an epic boss as a r46 weaver. But I will say that the r38 quest kind of got me excited about later content.

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Maybe they werent implemented since the new battle system is still being worked on/refined, and perhaps its just past FFXI experience talking, but i'd expect to have fought at least one boss in a party by rank 25-30. Even more so with Uematsu at the helm for the soundtrack, since he really delivers when it comes to boss themes.

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Totally agree. I'm surprised there are no low level NMs yet. (Unless they consider the current level cap to be low level when they raise the level cap to 99 or whatever.) But I'm looking forward to seeing what they've got coming.

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Originally Posted by VydarrTyr

But wouldn't Betel's suggestion just create a hole later on? Or, I suppose they could work now to fill the hole before they raise level cap? I'd be good with that :D.

Totally agree. I'm surprised there are no low level NMs yet. (Unless they consider the current level cap to be low level when they raise the level cap to 99 or whatever.) But I'm looking forward to seeing what they've got coming.

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Yeah that seems to be the best course of action, especially since Yoshida and co. seem to be trying to make the game more challenging, yet adhere to modern standards. Also that way, they could add decent boss battles without having to redo the entire story, and higher level players would already have access to a string of missions, since they would already be past that point. Looking at the list, there are only 8 total main missions at this point? So they could reduce the rank required for those missions once they add more. Im guessing the lack of main missions is just a remnant of Tanaka's team?

As far as low level NMs go, I remember Yoshi-P stating that they would add a decent amount of low to mid level NMs and content with the next few patches...of course i'd like actual instance (burning circle) battles too, since i'm a sucker for great boss themes/battles, but i'll take what I can get if it means taking down challenging enemies in a party. :cool:

It would be nice if the crafting/gathering classes had the combat abilities they were said to have before release, then we wouldnt really have this problem. Either way, i'm really hoping the next two patches are packed with content.

Yes later on you can bring people along with you on the fights. As an added bonus the people in your party show up in the cut scenes! Not being locked out of doing a mission because you are a misanthropic hermit is nice. But i would really like to see the difficulty of fights scale with the number of people you bring along for those of us who like to share the adventure with others.

But on topic, Would be nice to have a better flow between missions and quest lines. as it is now, i almost felt like i needed a "Last time in eorzea" refresher to remind me of who was who and what was what while progressing to the current stopping point.

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Originally Posted by Griss

But i would really like to see the difficulty of fights scale with the number of people you bring along for those of us who like to share the adventure with others.

But on topic, Would be nice to have a better flow between missions and quest lines. as it is now, i almost felt like i needed a "Last time in eorzea" refresher to remind me of who was who and what was what while progressing to the current stopping point.

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Glad i'm not the only one. I really want to get into the story, but the way things stand now, its easy to loose track. Hate to keep bringing up XI, but even with the crazy names and ancient races popping up, it was easy to keep track of events.

Difficulty scaling would be great too, of course you should probably bring a full party to any boss fight though.

I'm all for increasing the pace at which story missions come. Especially coming from FFXI as I have, the major motivation to level for me is to get the new bits of story, but as it is they're so far spaced apart I have trouble keeping myself motivated. I suppose getting around is part of the challenge, but if the actual planned fights are easy and it's often possible to just have a friend teleport you there, I think there's room to lower the required ranks (and maybe have aggroing mobs stay off the main roads so it's not a nightmare to get around on foot, as there's already a low enough incentive to actually walk anywhere, but I digress).

Of course, this is predicated on the assumption that they'll add more story missions to fill in the gap. I hope they're not talking about raising ranks before sorting out the other stuff with battle and balance though, you need a solid foundation to build a house =).

Yeah, the best way to implement this would be to lower the ranks with the first patch of the month, and then implement the new set of story missions with the second major patch for the month.

That way, those that arent still making their way through the first few missions are able to do so, leading right into the new missions, while those that have finished all the current missions, can start the new missions the minute they log in.

Should be a win win situation for everyone.

Story missions should start at R10 and have a new one every 5 ranks for every class, period. Same for the main scenario starting at level 1 of course and again a new one at every 5 levels.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Also one of the main problems with the story missions as Rentahamster says is that they have made them so easy because of the DoL/DoH classes. Now the original plan for those classes was that they would fight alongside DoW/DoM classes in battle, I can remember reading that Miner was a THF type class with Treasure Hunter and Steal and Blacksmiths used their hammers in battle, this was all on the official FFXIV site and that info was even still there after launch. However SE obviously pulled all of there abilities to fight and gave them all stone throw. The problem is now that SE have still classified them as a proper class and as such they need to be able to complete the story, but because they removed all their abilities to fight they have had to dumb down the missions like crazy so they can complete them.

SE needs to decide are DoH/DoL proper classes and if so then they need to give them their abilities to fight back, if not then they need to drop them back to being side jobs that you can do on top of you DoW/DoM classes so that they can increase the difficulty of the game. Are we actually supposed to believe that in it's current state a R50 Weaver is going to topple the Garlean Empire???? I think not.

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You keep saying this, but it doesn't explain why class specific DOW/DOM quests are a COMPLETE JOKE as well. Why was my 36 archer quest me 1 shotting like 4 mobs, then nothing but running and cutscenes? I think they just wanted every mission to be a complete joke, or they're placeholders or something. It makes no sense why DOW/DOM specific quests would be as easy as missions intended for "all classes"

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

I know that the new Final Fantasy XIV team are working on new quests and story missions/content in general, but what about the current story missions already in game? I think all current story missions, especially those that pick up right after the previous, yet are fairly far apart in rank requirements, should see a reduction is the rank required to access the mission.

A decent amount of the missions currently in game are either just a few cutscenes strung together with some traveling, in order to further the story, or just a simple battle against low level standard enemies, so what should they be so spaced apart in rank?

As things stand now, it takes far too long for players to get into what story is currently available, and once the real meat of the story gets added in future updates, it will take even longer to get to the "good stuff" in a manner of speaking. Honestly, there is no reason why I should complete a cutscene missions at rank 15, only to have to rank up to 25 in order to see another cutscene. At the very least, string the cutscene missions together a little more closely, say access to several at a certain rank, instead of one at a time.

One thing that players look for as far as Final Fantasy feel goes, is the storyline of the game, and the story feels slightly disconnected with such large gaps between seeing story content.

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The story really picks up later on...you just aren't high enough to get to the good parts yet. I like how it is personally.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

The story really picks up later on...you just aren't high enough to get to the good parts yet. I like how it is personally.

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I think this is the problem, actually. The game should hook you in early so you stay with it, but as it is it's kind of a slog to get to the juicy bit. I really like the story-based stuff in this game, there's just not enough of it and it takes a lot of grind to get to it.

I agree with this. At the moment the story quests are good, but they are a tad too diluted through the leveling to be as compelling as they could be. I would do pretty much the same as I suggested for class quests here: linky.

Basically, condense the current story quests between level 1 and 35, and then add more after them (at least 3-4 more steps) to level 50, increasing the epic scale of the new ones. I understand that SE plans to raise the level cap from 50 onwards, and that this will of course bring to an expansion of the storyline. But I do feel that we need some closure at 50 (like it was in FFXI, with the defeat of the shadowlord). The plot can be expanded further after 50, with some big "final fantasy-like" plot twist that reveals new enemies and bigger threats.

Cut out the level requirement with the quest being far apart in levels it is dull leveling up to meet the requirement unless we get XP and SP from side quests or something that helps use along.

Another reason why I think that there should be a lowering of the rank requirements for the current missions is because around level 25-30 (I forget) in XI, we were doing this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycMoA...8D198E&index=4

Unless the new companies missions are supposed to go along side the story missions ( likely since the Ifrit battle topic has nothing to do with company missions) and/ or the rank 30 dungeon has a great boss battle.

I personally don't think they should lower the ranks for current missions. Mainly because there are so few of them people will blow through them in a day if the ranks were lowered at all. Once the newer missions come out then perhaps they should lower them but until then I think it's fine as is.

Agreed, missions are too spread apart and they suck apart from the cutscenes...they are a time sink for no good reason, they just have you running around most of the time. Like I said before, some parts of a mission literally have you run to Gridania just to ask you to run back to Ul'Dah.

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Originally Posted by Illy

I personally don't think they should lower the ranks for current missions. Mainly because there are so few of them people will blow through them in a day if the ranks were lowered at all. Once the newer missions come out then perhaps they should lower them but until then I think it's fine as is.

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Thats what I mean.