Warning: The post below contains references to monsters in A Realm Reborn, if you do not want the surprise of finding some of these for yourself, do not read on.
Now that the NDA is lifted and work on the wiki has begun, we have some questions for you regarding monster families, their genuses and whatnot.
(Work under the assumption that I am using
Kingdom - Blodborn, Bloodless, Transcendant
Class - Wavekin, Cloudkin etc
Genus - Dodo, Spriggan, Fomor, etc
Species - Coblyn vs. Doblyn, Marmot vs Squirrel vs Rat, etc)
A) Mirrorknights - Is that their genus? Are they cloudkin? They look birdish.
B) Sandworms - Are they vilekin? Not really an "insect" but they are a bug, of sorts.
C) Succubi and Illithids (is that even their genus?) - Voidsent?
D) XI demons - What is their name? Demons?
E) XI Gargoyles - I saw one called a "Vodoriga" is that their genus? Or is that a species within them?
F) Oozes - Those slimes in Copperbell, what genus are they and what class
G) Death Gaze - Is that their Genus? I saw in a FATE they are Cloudkin.
H) Elementals, Golems, and Dullahan - Soulkin?
I) Giant Hornets? Giant Bees? Giant Wasps? What's the genus?
J) Are Efts a subset of salamander, or are salamanders a subset of Efts?
K) Serpents? Snakes? What are those in Halatali?
L) XI's Puks. We already have Puks. What are these new puks called?
M) Hammerbeaks, Pelicans, Ziz, what's their genus?
N) Are they ghosts or are they wraiths?
O) Are Cyclopses Spoken or Beastkin?
P) Is Atomos a primal? If not, what is he?
Q) Do primals fall into any of the Classes?
R) Are gold snurbles their own species? What's that one called?
S) Are Orobon the Genus, or is it Angler?
Thanks in advance - Gamer Escape team.
Monster Family Questions for Fern
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07-02-2013, 05:44 AMEmpyreanMonster Family Questions for Fern
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07-02-2013, 08:45 PMCatapult
There are a few things in this list that Moose (Anwyl) and I have discussed before and came to some preliminarily calls on in our capacity as loremongers. I'll run them past you.
H) Elementals are a doozy. The conspiracy theorist will call them voidsent. The Padjal enthusiast may consider them Spoken. A sentient-aether hater may even call them Primals. Soulkin is the compromiser's option, considering they are a soul bound to an existance, although the existance in question is pure aether... yeah, you can see how shaky that is. Soulkin for now until a higher authority suggests otherwise.
P) Atomos. Unlike primals, he gives the distinct impression of coming from beyond the aether, not from amongst it. Atomos is not prayed to or worshiped to sustain its manifestation. It simply consumes and brings a whole lot of voidsent with it. There are also multiples, as the Mouth would appear in multiple locations simultaneously. Based on these voidy-mobby properties, I was the one who classified it to Voidsent as its own genus... for now. We can expect actual story plots to better expose what atomos was, the "hells seeping black dooms" so to speak. When that plot comes, I'll take personal responsibility for updating that article with story-filled goodness.
Q) We've left Primals in their own Kingdom for now and it might be best to leave it that way until we learn a great deal more about the primals and their nature ourselves. I am confident that that the information on Ifrit in ß3 is only the tip of the iceberg and the Bahamut story will have a lot more to tell.
Also, for Dullahan, consider Forgekin as an option, on the basis it is made of refined metal.
The name of the golden snurble was "Golden Fleece" in case people are curious. -
07-25-2013, 09:09 PMMtoto_Wamoto
C) Mm, I'd wager to say that the Succubi and the Soulflayer are indeed Voident.
In fact, I'd even bet that the two named ones we've seen were once one of the spoken races and transformed in the voidsent creatures they are now.
It wouldn't be the first time this happened within the context of XIV's lore. For example, the story goes that Bomb Baron was once an adventurer who went around slaying bombs until he was killed by the blast of one and his soul was sent to the Sixth Hell where the Bomb King resurrected him as a bomb and sent him back to Eorzea to slay as many adventurers as he did bombs.
Lady Amadine (the named succubus of Haukke's Manor) was once a Duskwight woman who sold her soul in exchange for beauty. I can't remember if it's said anywhere who she signed away her soul to, but again, my money is on something dealing with demons and voidsent.
The soulflayer we run into in Tam-Tara is named Galvanth the Dominator, and the map of the dungeon as well as the 1.0 map of Tam-Tara show his tomb marked as King Galvanth's tomb and from what we know of Tam-Tara itself, it can be suggested that Galvanth has connections to Gelmorra. The Lambs of Dalamud, who we fight in the Deepcroft, are said to be ' plotting revenge against those who fought to prevent the advent of Dalamud, summoning any dark presence who will aid them to this end… no matter what the cost.' Through whatever means they're summoning the demons and creating magical barriers, I'd bet that they also somehow transformed Galvanth into what he is now.
Again, that's all speculation, but I think its pretty solid ground to support them being voidsent.
Bomb Baron: http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Bomb_Baron
Lady Amadine: http://www.finalfantasy.net/xiv/dung...-realm-reborn/ -
07-25-2013, 09:32 PMMtoto_Wamoto
More speculation.
K) The serpents we see in Halatali are from XII (along with the Mirrorknights) and are the snake models from that game. I think it goes without saying they're Scalekin.
M) Methinks that the genus would be cockatrice. I know 1.0 had cockatrice in the form of a species of dodos, but let's be real, if those are real cockatrice, I'm the Shadowlord laying claim to Eorzea. Joking aside, I wouldn't be surprised if SE retconned cockatrice into being its own genus rather than being a species of a seemingly unrelated genus.
L) Perhaps they are of a similar yet separate genus relating to puks? I only say this because 1.0's crab took the form of megalocrabs and ARR introduced snippers from XI into the world of Eorzea. That said, they are both crabs falling under the Wavekin(?) class, but have their own genus since they are vastly different from one another. It could be as simple as lowland puks and highland puks. /shrug. -
07-30-2013, 07:22 PMLusavari
A.) We're seeing a LOT of FFXII Assets being used as well as the XI ones. Most likely because XII assets are easier to transfer than others because they have passive and aggro poses already available thanks to XII being so similar to XI. With that said, Mirrorknights are a subspecies of Urstrix, which are even more like birds.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/U...Fantasy_XII%29
Mantids and the Serpents are also from XII. I like that the team opted for the XII mantids over the XI ones. The ones from XII look much better and fit into XIV better.
B.) Since you don't have amorphs anymore, Vilekin is where they fit best. You could better get around the issue by calling Vilekin "Arthropods" rather than "Insects." All Bugs are insects, but not all insects are bugs (Only Hemiptera and Homotera [insects with piercing-sucking mouth parts] are bugs). Arthropods includes anything with a segmented leg. Insects limits you to anything with only 6 segmented legs and 2 large compound eyes and a 3 segmented body. Diremites are Arachnids with 8 legs, and a ton of small eyes, so they're not insects. Sandworms right not are most similar I guess to a centipede? Either way... eventually you'll get a centipede or millipede mob... So I think expanding Vilekin to arthropods that don't live in water would eliminate confusion. That is, of course, providing people know Arthropods means anything with segmented legs :P
D.) I would figure the Demons would continue to insist on being referred too as The Kindred.
R.) Call'em Camates!
While we're on the topic... I'm curious why Adamantoises (at least on Gamerescape) are Beastkin and not Scalekin...? -
07-31-2013, 05:09 AMSkiesWell, scalekin appear to be mostly... cold-blooded reptiles (I'd make a case about something as huge as a dragon not feasibly being cold blooded BUT they look like cold-blooded reptiles) and tortoises not being such, this they are closer to beastkinQuote:
Originally Posted by Lusavari
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07-31-2013, 07:10 AMLusavari
But the beastkin are mammals... Turtles and Tortoises are reptiles. All reptiles are cold-blooded, including tortoises and turtles. Wyrms would be cold-blooded too, but they also produce flames, so while they may be ectothermic, the ones living in cold regions would still have a source of heat through their fiery breath.
As a matter of fact... the top image for ectothermic/cold blooded on wikipedia is turtles sunning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectotherm
I'd really like to petition for Adamantoises to be moved to scalekin. Turtles don't have mammary glands like an Aldgoat would.
Another thing to keep in mind, Skies, is that many of the largest creatures to have existed were cold-blooded reptiles. Tyrannosaurs Rex... The Sauropods like Brontosaurus... Size has nothing to do with something being cold or warm blooded. -
07-31-2013, 09:06 AMfiniteHPThis is actually a pretty big debate in paleontology. Just because modern reptiles are "cold-blooded" it doesn't mean that it holds true for all ancient reptiles. In fact crocodilians have adaptations that are more common in "warm-blooded" species and evidence to suggest they were at one point warm-blooded and later reverted back to cold-blooded. There is also the matter of at what point did modern birds become warm-blooded?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusavari
As for scalekin vs. beastkin for Adamantoise, I would also side with scalekin based on modern turtles and tortoises. Then again creatures in fantasy don't have to follow what we are familiar with. After all FFXI had a race that reproduced through reincarnation. -
07-31-2013, 11:41 AMLusavariThat's true... Because birds are pretty much glorified reptiles. But I digress... I'm still curious how it was decided Adamantoises go there... Fantasy or no, they are based on a creature that is a reptile.Quote:
Originally Posted by finiteHP
Meanwhile... Here's another question for Fern.
T.) What are Mindflayers? Are the Wavekin, Soulkin, or Voidsent? In FFXI, they were Blue Mages who abused power or became corrupted, which would make them cursed beings, so they would be similar to Soulkin, though it seems soulkin is making itself out to be animated objects. It could be wavekin because if its association with squid, while voidsent would also make sense. -
07-31-2013, 02:14 PMSkies
... Wow I bungled it HARD on the turtle thing. For some reason I thought turtles were warm blooded?
I'm an idiot. It COULD be that Adamantoises were misnamed as Beastkin, then.
As for Mindflayers, you see exactly one Mindflayer in ARR (at least at early levels) and you find him exactly as he's being extracted out of the Void. He is a quite literal Voidsent, really, and even talks about how the people were were pulling him out of it. -
07-31-2013, 03:13 PMLusavari
Don't beat yourself up. We all get confused at times ^^
As for the Mindflayer question, that makes sense... Sadly I haven't gotten to try beta despite having an invitation since the beginning... My laptop died in January, and I needed an emergency replacement to get my school work done, and couldn't afford anything with the bells and whistles... so I'm a little behind on any story elements .__. -
07-31-2013, 09:37 PMCatapultThe Mindflayer in question is Galvanth the Dominator.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusavari
As per the story of the Tam-Tara Deepcroft, the Lambs of Dalamud are trying to ressurect him for reasons I'm not going to even try and properly understand. But to do so, they bind him to a body of grotesque form, which we can probably presumed was created for this purpose.
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Th...Tara_Deepcroft
To simply define him as voidsent is to slightly miss the point, as the whole concept seems to go beyond basic taxonomical classifications known in Eorzea (hence the current categorisation of "unknown", I guess). In some ways you could say he is a soulkin, because his soul (which is of this world) has been bound to a form that he did not grow in. However, that form itself is "not of this world" and thus voidsent in nature.
It might be best to leave him without a classification, at least for now. -
08-06-2013, 12:01 PMMtoto_Wamoto
As Hydaelyn has soulkin, vilekin, etc. I have a feeling the Void has its own set of classes as well, most of them likely being the same if not slightly different. However, as Catapult mentioned, because it comes from the void, it's labeled voidsent regardless of its class simply due to the nature of where it hails from.
We seem to label anything from the void as voidsent regardless of taxonomic rank or class, such as the gargoyle demons (e.g. Batraal) which would likely be classified under the same class as the kindred demons we see or the other demons that appear in ARR.