How will loot distribution work in 24 man raids???

PLEASE tell me that it isn't going to be 0 to 4 drops per boss like old time vanilla WoW. While I understand there has to be endgame content that players can't breeze through in a month and be finished, I really hope SE isn't making things all DKP up in here.

I remember in XI it was more like 1-2 drops per boss :) Still, it was the journey, rather than the reward that made it worth it... Hah!

I'm no 24-man raider these days (turns out I don't play well with others); what do you suggest? A game-run DKP system (eg tokens)? A larger, fixed number of rewards in chests? Based on overall raid performance? A vast amount of optional side-grades in order that the content last longer? Or perhaps many different reasons to attempt the same raids repeatedly?

I'd be okay with a token system, as long as you always get some sort of minimal token progress every run, even if you are unlucky with drops/lots. The voidwatch stuff in FFXI where everyone opens the same chest for a personal pile of trash and like a 1% chance of getting what you wanted (THAT EFFING DAGGER FROM QILIN) is probably what we can expect.

Yoshida said for large scale raids you will have a limited number of rolls you can use per instance and these will reset after a certain period of time (Like a week).

This system is basically like a type of dkp that is integrated into the game. It ensures that the same person cant win all the loot every run and also discourages spamming content.

This was covered in a Japanese interview last Fall.

Here's the dev quote on the subject.

As for the number of drops, yoshida gives 2-3 drops per boss as an example. The difference from WoW though, is that only your rolls are on a weekly timer, you can enter the instance itself as many times as you like. So even though there are still only a limited number of drops, you can keep retrying the instance until you have used up all your rolls for the week. This is ideal if you are targeting a specific item and it only rarely drops.

On the downside, a system like this will make it difficult for pickup groups to form, because once a person has used their rolls for the week, they will be unlikely to participate in any runs. This will force most people to do only LS scheduled runs so that everyone does the instance when they have rolls available. Because of this, I would imagine some LS would still resort to using a DKP type of system in order to control who wins a specific item or even who can use a roll, since everyone in the LS will have all their rolls available during every run.

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Originally Posted by Doki

PLEASE tell me that it isn't going to be 0 to 4 drops per boss like old time vanilla WoW. While I understand there has to be endgame content that players can't breeze through in a month and be finished, I really hope SE isn't making things all DKP up in here.

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Ha! It's all about the reward in these large groups.

I can't talk about this aspect of BETA yet, as we're restricted to talk about New Grid, Old Grid and Character Creation only.

But I CAN talk about how it works in another game. :D

This game involves instanced content where 35 or more people use ships to battle enemies.

When we do large group content in this other game there are two loots: One that goes directly to the ship in the form of things that can be used by the guild collectively. The other loot is based on individual RNG and Individual Performance..

It has already been established that large group content will factor into the Free Company Reputation, Speed runs for example goes to free company ranking. However, it stands to reason that individual rewards will be afforded. Remember, Yoshi P explained that there will be a token system, where if you lose a lot roll you will get a token that can be traded in for a similar (if slightly not as good) item.

That way everyone gets rewarded.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

Yoshida said for large scale raids you will have a limited number of rolls you can use per instance and these will reset after a certain period of time (Like a week).

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Yeah, this solution isn't really a solution since if people don't have any rolls left they won't do runs. Seems silly.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Yeah, this solution isn't really a solution since if people don't have any rolls left they won't do runs. Seems silly.

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Not really. If you plan on running the same dungeon enough times to where you'd actually run out of lots in a week, chances are you are running with a close Free Company/Linkshell. If they aren't going to bother helping out because they don't benefit, they're awful people and should be kicked from the group.

Also, this never stopped people from doing content in XI. I ran tons of Dynamis knowing I got nothing from it. It's called playing a game with friends. More people need to realize this.

EDIT: Also, it makes you prioritise which class you want gear for. If you're only allowed 3 need rolls a week, are you going to waste them on a class you don't want gear for? Keep in mind a LOT of players have secondary or tertiary jobs.

Honestly I think having an opportunity for exponential character growth is really fun; linear token systems can really kill that excitement if it isn't carefully monitored to rather niche pieces.

It was already said that token gear wasn't going to be as strong as whatever dropped from the current progression raid.

I remember a certain lesson supposedly learned after 1.0. That was being different from MMO standards for the sake of "reinventing" something does not always lead to positive results.

This system is horrible, it is the fatigue of loot distribution systems.

I guess I am of the thinking that as adults paying a subscription to play a game we should possibly be able to determine amongst ourselves in groups who gets which items that have dropped.

Maybe this could be the way dungeon finder groups are handled, or other situations where the people in the party for whatever reason cannot be trusted to settle loot amicably.

But for free company/linkshell use especially in raid/endgame encounters I strongly urge them to please add an option for adults to distribute loot themselves freely.

Making the token gear not as good as the rolled loot seems kind of ghetto to me. I suspect you'll see a large majority of people in full token gear with 1 piece of lotted gear trying to make it in raid instances where progression was developed with the better "rolled loot" gearsets in mind.

So there's going to be lots of wiping until more people have their full T1 sets... OMG it really IS going to be vanilla WoW all over again. orz

How about a nice middle ground.

Each raid boss has a given loot table. When killed, it will drop X pieces of loot, and Y boss specific tokens.

Next, throw in some npc in a Magical Armory of Heroes... something to that effect, or have Cid build a structural replicator... yeah, something to that effect... Which allows you to "buy" any item from the boss's loot table using said boss's tokens.
Prices would vary depending on item slot and rarity. So say a ring would be fairly cheap, a chest or legs would be moderately expensive, and that rare super weapon that never drops... that'd be about a month? of farming tokens.

Now we could also need a cap on the number of tokens available per week, or this would turn into a pure gear grind, but this kind of system would enable the "lucky" people to get most of their gear, while still allowing the "unlucky" people to gradually acquire the exact same gear (not some inferior consolation prize), as opposed to being that one unlucky bum who always leaves with nothing and eventually just falls behind.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Yeah, this solution isn't really a solution since if people don't have any rolls left they won't do runs. Seems silly.

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Some people do runs for the sake of helping, too. I used to do it, and I know I'm not alone.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

as opposed to being that one unlucky bum who always leaves with nothing and eventually just falls behind.

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This is the part that concerns me the most. In any given raiding group, there's always a few people that get shafted on drops before the group as a whole moves to the next raiding content. You can play the "not in a GOOD guild" card if you want, but IMHO it happens all the time.

I guess in the long run it isn't anything to be overly concerned about yet. ARR will still be a pre-expansion game, and I'm willing to bet the first expansion will also include some level cap raise, making all that grinding irrelevant very fast.

I have word straight from the devs, that any drops I am included in, will automatically drop everything to me..
I like this new drop system....

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

Yoshida said for large scale raids you will have a limited number of rolls you can use per instance and these will reset after a certain period of time (Like a week).

This system is basically like a type of dkp that is integrated into the game. It ensures that the same person cant win all the loot every run and also discourages spamming content.

This was covered in a Japanese interview last Fall.

Here's the dev quote on the subject.

As for the number of drops, yoshida gives 2-3 drops per boss as an example. The difference from WoW though, is that only your rolls are on a weekly timer, you can enter the instance itself as many times as you like. So even though there are still only a limited number of drops, you can keep retrying the instance until you have used up all your rolls for the week. This is ideal if you are targeting a specific item and it only rarely drops.

On the downside, a system like this will make it difficult for pickup groups to form, because once a person has used their rolls for the week, they will be unlikely to participate in any runs. This will force most people to do only LS scheduled runs so that everyone does the instance when they have rolls available. Because of this, I would imagine some LS would still resort to using a DKP type of system in order to control who wins a specific item or even who can use a roll, since everyone in the LS will have all their rolls available during every run.

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Just imagine how packed it'll be outside every dungeon right after every weekly reset. On the other hand, this system also facilitates the purchase of crafted items, as people won't have an easy time getting decked out in dungeon gear.

I imagine there is a swarm of beta testers that are currently itching to speak out, but having to bite their tongues in fear of an NDA ban-hammer.

In due course, we will get opinions on how well the "need, greed or pass" loot system is being received.

no you will just have pickup groups that say no needing which is wrong if someone needs it and they can roll need then they should be able to with out any reprucussions