Does My Name Meet Conventions?

Ever since I first read over the Lalafell naming conventions, I have been thinking about the name I've been using throughout 1.0 and trying to figure out whether or not I meet these naming conventions.

So, let's break it down.

The name I chose, after MUCH deliberation, is Blaise Lallaise. This seems to best fit into the Plainsfolk Male naming conventions. If you are saying, "But wait, you're a Dunesfolk," you would be correct, but please ignore that for now. I'm considering my options for taking care of that little problem. Spoiler alert: It'll most likely be explained with mixed-clan parents.

In the Plainsfolk Male naming conventions, we are shown that they normally follow the AB-CB pattern. This would break my name down as follows:

A = Bl
B = aise
C = Lall

At a glance, it appears to fit right into the conventions. But wait! There is yet one little caveat that may throw it all out the window. Given the rule that states, "[t]he A, B, and C phonemes are usually limited to one or two syllables," one can assume that means the first name and surname will each usually have between 2 and 4 syllables. The potential problem here is that my AB first name shares a single syllable.

So, the question I cannot quite figure out is this. Will I be required to add a vowel in the middle of the 'A' phoneme in order to fall within the naming conventions or does it fit in just fine as is?

One more point, in the naming conventions thread, it is said that "[t]here are four unique sets of rules, and these rules are rarely deviated from." That brings up other questions. Is the single syllable first name considered a "deviation" and if so, is it small enough to be deemed an acceptable, or even noticeable deviation?

So, what do you think? Perfectly fine? Acceptable deviation? In need of change? I should stop fretting over something so trivial?

You could say it's Bla-ise Lalla-ise. Given much of the Lalafell language isn't as strict in its phonetics in present day Eorzea, you can still pronounce it AS one syllable (two for surname) and still meet the conventional properties of Lalafellian lore!

EDIT: Fern also confirmed that the clans have been known to mesh together in some cases, like the Miqo'te from Ul'dah who has a Sun seeker name, but is clearly a Moon Keeper. So it's not too hard to believe a Dunesfolk has a Plainsfolk's conventions. I'm in the same boat as you. I love my mismatched eye colors, but have the name 'Jinketsu.' My surname in 1.x was Juster, but now that I know the conventions I'll be changing it to Moruketsu. Plainsfolk conventions, but I like it much more than Jijiketsu Momoketsu, haha.

In order to fit convention, each phenome needs to have a syllable within itself. Using "laise" as your B phenome and adding a vowel to the first syllable in your first name would solve it if you're trying to fit Male Plainsfolk convention.

As far as what's an acceptable deviation, I think Ferne would be able to better answer that. That also begs the question of what causes the rules to be deviated from in the first place?

Edit: Jinketsu also makes a good point about interpreting syllables and pronunciation.

Actually, I'm hoping Fern comes in to at least specify more about consonants. I don't know if double-consonants like BL, LL or TS are allowed within the same syllable. That would make or break our names for authenticity's sake!

Or even double vowels, for that matter.

keep in mind too, that names that are 'close' but not quite right would also demonstrate the changing populations etc. that the game has. Most lalafells have migrated to Uldah afterall, and therefore it is easy to assume there would be a fair amount that have 'less racial' names. So I guess the question is 'How traditional a lalafell are you/how traditional were your parents?'

Basically, OP if you like your name as is, it is close enough that it would blend in...and you could create a little 'my parents were progressive-thinking lalafells' back story or something of the like.

That is a very good point, Kinsey - unless that's not the direction they want us to go with.

Let's ponder, less for RP's sake and more for continuity's, what the consonant-vowel rules are. The only specification they give is that a syllable can in fact hold only one letter - consonant or vowel. All of the examples given reflect that rule, but each name has only a maximum of two letters per syllable. The two-letter syllables always start with a consonant and end with a vowel. No examples are given with doubles of anything, nor are there any rules stated saying it's not supposed to happen. The unstated-but-given rule is that a single three-letter syllable written as consonant-vowel-consonant (like Zol in Zolka) is to be considered two syllables - but would that example be pronounced as Zol-Ka, or is it actually pronounced as three syllables like Zo-Uhl-Ka or something?

Then back to my original question, what are the rules behind thee-letter syllables like Bla or Tsu? Are they generally unaccepted? Do they exist and were just not reflected in the examples given? I'd like to at least know for sure, because I'm anal like that :P

EDIT: It could be that the rules say 'Usually' one or two syllables for the A-B-C rhythmic portions means that three or four could be acceptable, and that Bla and Tsu would be considered two instead of one. It would make my name Jinketsu lay out like Ji-N-Ke-T-Su, or Lallaise like La-L-La-I-Se. While it's not the 'Usual' convention of one or two syllables, it's not entirely against the rules. If I'm right in that assumption, then all I would need is confirmation on how to pronounce consonants as their own syllable, like Zolka or Blaise.

EDIT 2: Oh, and given that the E in Blaise would be silent, what are the rules on silent vowels?

Hmm...there are some good points here. I didn't consider alternate pronunciations. If I pronounce the B like 'Buh', then that forces a new syllable, creating a phonetic pronunciation of Buh-layz La-layz. It's sketchy, but may work.

Even so, an official word on the questions that have come up in the process would be a nice read.

Yeah, I was mostly basing my response on Ferny's response back about 'Mixed Breed' names for Miq'otes and such from the F'lhaminn thread

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

Hello guys!

The same topic was brought up in the JP forums, so the loremasters decided to make an official response.
Here is a rough translation of what it says:

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As is indicated by the name, F'lhaminn is a member of the F (bear) Seeker of the Sun tribe. However, as many of you have pointed out, she has many physical features which are attributed to Keepers of the Moon (such as iris shape, skin color, etc). As many of you have also noticed, there have been other characters which have displayed the features of one clan, while following the naming conventions of another. This can be attributed to two factors.

One: It could merely be a genetic anomaly. Just because certain races have a tendency to display certain features (pointed ears, long legs, darker or lighter skin, soul-piercing eyes), doesn't mean that once every thousand or ten thousand births, something deviates from the rules.

Two: It could be that a parent or grandparent was of a different clan, and the features of that clan were passed down. We know for certain that F'lhaminn was raised as a Seeker of the Sun, but we would have to look further down her family tree for clues why she has the appearance of a Keeper of the Moon.

Finally, some good news for our role-players who want a little more spice in their character's history--in character creation for ARR, we'll be allowing the mixing and matching of certain features between clans, so it will be possible to create a Keeper of the Moon-like Seeker of the Sun (or vice versa).

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I know it's not exactly the same thing...but as it would make sense that some people might name their character 'Lhaminn' (a seeker of the sun who no longer identifies themselves by their tribe/might have been abandoned/more familiar/more modern/etc...it is possible we lalafells have started doing similar.

Also, as some have suggested in other similar topics, you could come up with your 'adventurer tag' (the name your character actually uses) and still have a 'given name' that you roleplay your parents gave you. Basically, my adventuring buddies gave me this nickname because, but my real name is_____. This helps those who don't want to change their name/follow conventions to the letter, while still aiding in roleplay if possible.


I am having similar problems with my own character name...I'd like something that fits convention, but I'd also like it to be similar to my current in-game name so friends know who I am. So I too am interested in more lore about the how and whys of Lala names, and how far we can stray from convention but still be plausibly 'well-named'. (Personally, I think I want to change my main to plainsfolk...but I think I prefer the female Dunesfolk naming potential... /sigh)

is Kinsey Winsey a potential name? :v

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

I am having similar problems with my own character name...I'd like something that fits convention, but I'd also like it to be similar to my current in-game name so friends know who I am. So I too am interested in more lore about the how and whys of Lala names, and how far we can stray from convention but still be plausibly 'well-named'. (Personally, I think I want to change my main to plainsfolk...but I think I prefer the female Dunesfolk naming potential... /sigh)

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Wow, I didn't even think to look at female names! Look at the bigger clue in the female Dunesfolk Lalafell ruling:

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

1. The phoneme pattern used is AAB - AB
2. The A and B phonemes are 1 syllable (with the A phoneme always repeated in the forename).
3. Syllables are most often a single consonant paired with a single vowel, or simply a single vowel.

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It says 'most often,' giving us free reign of having more than two letters per syllable. Either that, or they're 'most often' a consonant and a vowel, with the rest of the naming scheme stuck to a single vowel. Sigh...

But if we could change that asepct and I were to name you based on Female Dunesfolk conventions, you'd be Kinkinsey Kinsey

EDIT: I'm torn between your name in Dunesfolk and Plainsfolk. Plainsfolk would be Kinseysey Kinsey (I assume you pronounce sey like zee). I kinda like them both.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

I am having similar problems with my own character name...I'd like something that fits convention, but I'd also like it to be similar to my current in-game name so friends know who I am. So I too am interested in more lore about the how and whys of Lala names, and how far we can stray from convention but still be plausibly 'well-named'. (Personally, I think I want to change my main to plainsfolk...but I think I prefer the female Dunesfolk naming potential... /sigh)

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I recall seeing an offshoot discussion about your name in a different thread. When I think of Dunesfolk naming with your name in mind, I keep coming around to 'Kikinsi Kinsi', but even that strays a bit with the rogue 'n' between the A's and the B's. Yet at the same time, its presence seems a necessity to flow off the tongue properly. But then we are right back around to your own comment about more modern naming that slips from tradition a bit, and then that rogue 'n' doesn't seem so bad. It honors tradition, but with a personal twist. If I can do it, you can too.

Then again, you could keep your current name (it has a nice ring to it) as a monicker for those non-lalafell who lack the linguistic prowess to pronounce your 'true' name.

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Originally Posted by Rau

is Kinsey Winsey a potential name? :v

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No Rau, because I'm a girl...it is potentially plausible for a boy.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseLallaise

I recall seeing an offshoot discussion about your name in a different thread. When I think of Dunesfolk naming with your name in mind, I keep coming around to 'Kikinsi Kinsi', but even that strays a bit with the rogue 'n' between the A's and the B's. Yet at the same time, its presence seems a necessity to flow off the tongue properly. But then we are right back around to your own comment about more modern naming that slips from tradition a bit, and then that rogue 'n' doesn't seem so bad. It honors tradition, but with a personal twist. If I can do it, you can too.

Then again, you could keep your current name (it has a nice ring to it) as a monicker for those non-lalafell who lack the linguistic prowess to pronounce your 'true' name.

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and yeah, my name gets Kikiki or seysey aweful fast using the proper formats...not sure what I'll do yet.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

and yeah, my name gets Kikiki or seysey aweful fast using the proper formats...not sure what I'll do yet.

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For what it's worth, your current name fits so well, it's hard to find anything that fits conventions and sounds better.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseLallaise

For what it's worth, your current name fits so well, it's hard to find anything that fits conventions and sounds better.

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Thanks ...I only made it this at launch because my name in ffxi was 'Kinsey' and it was only 'Kinsey' then because I was silly and used my actual name. I wanted FFXI friends to be able to easily find me so I took the same name (nickname in ffxi was Kinz). So yeah...I locked myself into a name kinda by accident, but now I'm known by it.


On you name, I think if you like it, and it works well enough and you should keep it...especially if you don't do heavy roleplaying. But if you are trying to be more conventional, I'm not sure how you should change it or if you really even need to. (I'd totally let it pass if I saw it on my server as a 'traditional Lala' name though because it is overall, close enough)

I personally think Blaise's name fits the conventions just fine.

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Originally Posted by Jinketsu

You could say it's Bla-ise Lalla-ise. Given much of the Lalafell language isn't as strict in its phonetics in present day Eorzea, you can still pronounce it AS one syllable (two for surname) and still meet the conventional properties of Lalafellian lore!

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In Japanese they don't have what we know as a long "A" as one syllable. It's the blending of E (pronounced "eh") and I (pronounced "ih" or "ee"), so Ei results in a long A sound, even though it counts as two syllables.

Truth be told, in Katakana your name would be "Bu-Le-I-Zu La-Le-I-Zu", or "Buleizu Laleizu", where "Bule" and "Lale" are A and C respectively, and Izu is B. You could say that the name was poorly transliterated from its original form by an ignorant Elezen or Hyur.

By the way, my fellow Americans, I don't expect you to learn any Eastern languages, but don't be ignorant of their pronunciations. The vowels are really not that hard. It's thanks to ignorance that people pronounce "Hyundai" as "Hundy".

So... now I am thinking about your name. I've decided that it rocks and you should keep it. That maybe your parents intended for it to be pronounced Bah-laise Lal-laise, but those silly humes and other adventures couldn't say it correctly and it became Blaise Lallaise.

That said, I could not find a single NPC lala, male or female that has a 'single syllable' first name on ZAM's npc list. So you are correct in your original OP that it is probably outside convention to have such a name.

Link if you'd like to look: http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/moblist.html...alafell&page=1

I think the reason you are having issues is because 'Bl' is in essence, it's own consonant sound, and therefore, while it is technically 2 letters, our brains only treat it as 1. Therefore, you don't really have a complete 'A' part of your name, but rather just a sound. (You are in fact, missing the vowel you thought you might be missing).

So maybe Belaise Lallaise would be more appropriate. I used e in my example because it was the closest single vowel target sound to Buh.

As this is how your name would be most commonly said (by NA English speakers) using other vowels:

Bal= Ballet or ahhl kinda sounds to most people ..esp when followed so closely by another vowel(Balaise)
Bel= Bell or eh kinda sound to most people (Belaise)
Bil= Bill or ih kinda sound to most people (kinda cool in it's own right, but people might call you Bil for short and not sure if you'd be okay with that) (Bilaise)
Bol= bold or oh sound to most people (Bolaise)
Bul= Bull or ooh sound to most people (Bulaise)

- excuse my attempts at spelling out phonetics, I typically use a different alphabet to discuss phonetics or target words and might have made a boo-boo or two.


Keep in mind, your name is great as is and seems 'lala' like enough. Not only that, it's a charming name for a male lalafell. It is the right amount of cute, playful and wit.

Edit: Cause i was still thinking about it.

As Lalafells use 'latin' vowels, or Pure vowels only, it would also be highly uncommon to have a double vowel or dipthong in a Lalafell name (and once again, a quick glance on the Lala NPC names lists confirms that assumption).

This means, that if you kept your name in its current spelling, you would have to say each vowel sound if you were trying to say it the 'authentic lalafell' way. The reason for this is :As a general rule, in Latin when two vowels come together each keeps its own sound and constitutes a separate syllable. In addition to this, double-consonants must be clearly pronounced.

The 'separate syllable' isn't such a big deal because Lala names can have 2-4 syllables in each part of the name. However, this would mean the closer proper Lalafell pronunciation of Blaise Lallaise is:

Blah-ee-zeh Lah-lah-ee-zeh

So Pro: you no longer have an issue with your first name being one syllable.
Con: I don't think this is how you intended on saying the name at all.

So now I don't know what to tell you...No English Speaker in their right mind would look at the name Blaise Lalaise and say 'Blah-ee-zeh Lah-lah-ee-zeh', but rather something closer to Blaze, La'laze. It seems, by rough guess your name fits and Elezen more (it's more French than Latin)...so maybe you were found abandoned as a child and raised by an Elezen....

But if what you want is a 'traditional Lalafell name' You'll have to keep trying, consonant-vowel-consonant or consonant-vowel should do the trick.

This is what happens when Voice Teachers can't sleep....

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Originally Posted by Yrusama

By the way, my fellow Americans, I don't expect you to learn any Eastern languages, but don't be ignorant of their pronunciations. The vowels are really not that hard. It's thanks to ignorance that people pronounce "Hyundai" as "Hundy".

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I understand how the Japanese language works just fine (I just don't know any actual Japanese to uphold any conversations, haha). The Lalafell language is not Japanese. Please check out the Lalafell Naming Conventions thread and read up on how their language works. I'd hate for you to look as ignorant as you think the rest of us do. It's somewhat similar to Japanese - in a way - but it's also pretty different. Look at this portion:

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

The Lalafellin language (used by the clans before they arrived in Eorzea) originally only possessed five distinct vowels: a e i o u.

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The keywords there are "originally" and "only." Meaning to be extremely authentic (or archaic, depending on how you look at it), you would always follow those strict vowel pronunciations. But the case here is that different tones and phonetics for those vowels are allowable and, in fact, used often enough in present day Eorzea.

On top of that, the spellings of Lalafell names do not meet the Katakana methods of Japanese emulating a double consonant sound. It's just straight up double consonants. Kopel Yorpel and Alka Zolka are two such examples. Those are the exact way you spell those names, which are completely Lalafellin, and not further broken up or remastered into any other kind of 'original, true' way to do it like they have with the Miqo'te and Roegadyn. It's not secretly "Koperu" or "Zoruka" or anything of a Japanese nature. It's just "Kopel" and "Zolka," which is why I go about hoping to hear an answer from a dev just how to pronounce them. ^^

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

So... now I am thinking about your name. I've decided that it rocks and you should keep it.

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Thank you for the extensive analysis.

It was never an intention to change it, since I am way too attached to it to touch it. But at the same time I am curious about how close to authentic it is. I'm not a role player, per se, but I do like to have a plausible background story to explain any apparent inconsistencies.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

That maybe your parents intended for it to be pronounced Bah-laise Lal-laise, but those silly humes and other adventures couldn't say it correctly and it became Blaise Lallaise.

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This I like.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Link if you'd like to look: http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/moblist.html...alafell&page=1

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A few names stand out the most in that list. Whoever "Gregory" is, "Nokksu Shanksu," and all the Sh names. That goes to at least prove we most certainly can use double consonants in our names as three-letter syllables! Thank you for the link, it clears up quite a bit (and now Blaise doesn't have to be Buh-Laiz)!