What is this I don't even...

http://penny-arcade.com/report/edito...-mmo-but-feels

Seems seriously written by a GW2 fangirl that can't get over herself.

I have no illusion that the game will be perfect, but I'm pretty disgusted, honestly.

lol using terminology such as "half-assed"...yeah... she's entitled to her opinions but her delivery is..yeah what you said Abriael XD

Looks more like a blog post, by a butthurt fan :D

Apparently the article writer doesn't understand how to use a map. I found that piece more interesting then the article itself. Her opinion is one thing but that was an utterly stupid criticism.

Haters gonna hate.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

lol using terminology such as "half-assed"...yeah... she's entitled to her opinions but her delivery is..yeah what you said Abriael XD

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Yeah lately I'm starting to wonder about some individuals that get into this industry. How they've been educated, what kind of writing background they have... some seem so improvised and unable to make a point without being fanboyish and sensationalist or without using improperly placed hyperbole that they make my head want to slam on my desk repeatedly...

Everyone's a writer and a journalist *looks at self*

The more these "over the top" reviews come out, the more I know not to trust their opinion on any game.

Well as much as I hate to say it. Look at what she's talking about. She doesn't feel the game is unique enough outside of the job system and story. On a separate review that came out yesterday, I read the very same thing. IF there are two people that had a chance to get their hands on the game, and play it to make this opinion/review about the game, then it's a potential issue for ARR.

Call it what you want, say haters gonna hate, call her a fan-girl. Fact of the matter is that this has been mentioned by two separate reviewers who both had gotten a chance to play the game, and didn't walk away impressed.

The reason why I even bring this up is because the negative press that can spread. Someone who had played XIV 1.0 and gave up, or a potential player that never got a chance to play 1.0 and is interested in 2.0 since he heard the game is completely redone, could read this and be like "no thanks".....and there goes a potential customer.


Another thing, even if she is a GW2 fan-girl, isn't the goal to appeal to more mainstream mmo players, that do indeed play competitors games? I thought it was. You're telling me that someone who plays LOLGW2 played ARR and walked away? Especially considering ARR is similar to GW2 in a lot of ways now (some that she mentions), this is an issue. I worry about this because I don't want a bad launch, I want the game to thrive.

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Originally Posted by Lady

The more these "over the top" reviews come out, the more I know not to trust their opinion on any game.

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How did someone of her uh... caliber even get into that event?

It's an unbiased look at it and some people really hate that apparently. The only thing I see wrong is her take on the Bahamut situation which happened plenty in other FF games before as I interpreted she meant SE borrowed it from another game, WoW specifically.

What is unique about ARR? She had it DEAD ON with the questing. Get to a new area, you're doing the same exact quests behind a different set of dialog. No one who has played more than 1 MMO ever can deny this. While people here are praising every second of ARR and Yoshida, you really have to look at it in an unbiased light, how will he make this MMO stand out? He's busy trying to make it feel like a regular MMORPG and that's what the writer was stating. She could have been more professional about, but let's be real, MMORPG market is saturated and plenty of MMOs with unique takes on things have even failed. ARR has to do something amazing beyond them remaking a failed MMO.

When we push toward launch hopefully they showcase what will help them stand out and attract people, otherwise, SE is doing perfectly fine in making this MMO stand in, now they need to make it stand out and FF elements alone won't do it since there's more and more F2P MMOs with multi job per character systems coming out.

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

Well as much as I hate to say it. Look at what she's talking about. She doesn't feel the game is unique enough outside of the job system and story. On a separate review that came out yesterday, I read the very same thing. IF there are two people that had a chance to get their hands on the game, and play it to make this opinion/review about the game, then it's a potential issue for ARR.

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There are a lot of reviewers that think that the new Dante from DmC is a miracle of writing and wit. Having a few people that can't put two sentences together without using unwarranted hyperbole sharing the same opinion doesn't make that opinion founded.

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Another thing, even if she is a GW2 fan-girl, isn't the goal to appeal to more mainstream mmo players, that do indeed play competitors games? I thought it was. You're telling me that someone who plays LOLGW2 played ARR and walked away? Especially considering ARR is similar to GW2 in a lot of ways now (some that she mentions), this is an issue. I worry about this because I don't want a bad launch, I want the game to thrive.

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The problem with fanboys is that no matter what you show them, they'll be jaded, because they'll see it as a threat to ther beloved. Unfortunately many of those have gotten into game journalism.

And lol. I could have bet that Elexia would have been all over this bundle of unwarranted negativity (calling it "unbiased" just lol). It's the perfect piece of evidence that the article is good only for the recycle bin.

"oh my god! It has some classic MMORPG staples! It didn't scrap every single classic element of the whole genre (no matter if they work well)! It must be all copied ans stuck in the past!"

Bull :D

So on Fate thing, what would she think if there is no lvl limit, then in her noobness day doing FATE, I wipe her mobs,mwahahahahhahah. Will she revise her opinion? (seriously, what kind of journalist that cant find some hypothesis of their own question?)

Meh if you think about it, they had all of part of 2 days to form an opinion on a game designed to be played for years at a time. I'll form my own opinion. thanks ^_^

OMG SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET DOENS"T LIKE WHAT I LIKE /RAGE

Seriously, get over yourselves.

The article poses serious concerns and valid remarks;

1) What's new? Does FFXIV pose anything new to the MMO genre? Does it have to?
------A: No. Nothing is "new" persay, and I don't think it has to reinvent the wheel. Plenty of people (myself included) will play simply if the game is a "standard MMO" based in Final Fantasy worlds/lore.

2) Why does that horrible "insert quest item to trade" mechanic exist?
------A: Yoshi confirmed in one of the latest interviews that it was meant to get people to slow down and think about what they were doing. I too think this is an obtuse mechanic in generic kill quests -- but in story quests I understand the purpose. I get where the developers wanted to make people think about it, but I also come from a realist point of view where it is incredibly obtuse.

3) The article continues to praise the character creator, which we know was god awful in 1.0, and continues by stating that the writer wants to CONTINUE PLAYING -- with less trouble.

What you should get from this article is that XIV is NOT TRYING TO REINVENT THE WHEEL, if you think it will, you're in for a rude awakening.

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

Well as much as I hate to say it. Look at what she's talking about. She doesn't feel the game is unique enough outside of the job system and story. On a separate review that came out yesterday, I read the very same thing. IF there are two people that had a chance to get their hands on the game, and play it to make this opinion/review about the game, then it's a potential issue for ARR.

Call it what you want, say haters gonna hate, call her a fan-girl. Fact of the matter is that this has been mentioned by two separate reviewers who both had gotten a chance to play the game, and didn't walk away impressed.

The reason why I even bring this up is because the negative press that can spread. Someone who had played XIV 1.0 and gave up, or a potential player that never got a chance to play 1.0 and is interested in 2.0 since he heard the game is completely redone, could read this and be like "no thanks".....and there goes a potential customer.


Another thing, even if she is a GW2 fan-girl, isn't the goal to appeal to more mainstream mmo players, that do indeed play competitors games? I thought it was. You're telling me that someone who plays LOLGW2 played ARR and walked away? Especially considering ARR is similar to GW2 in a lot of ways now (some that she mentions), this is an issue. I worry about this because I don't want a bad launch, I want the game to thrive.

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I think one thing she fails to bring up is that at its core, this is a game to appeal to people that are fans of the FF series. To everyone else from the outside looking in, yeah, it probably looks like another MMO that's taking ideas from other MMOs and making their own game. Maybe one day people will be able to enjoy the game for what charms it has, like longtime fans of the FF franchise do. It IS essentially going to be a fanservice title in the form of an MMO after all.

"Sophie Prell" The author of that article sounds very much but hurt... GW2 was a massive pile of crap which i could not stomach playing for longer then .... [wait for it]...... 2h's before clicking uninstall. GW2 can't even hold a candle up to 1.0, yet alone 2.0. The gap is to big. After skimming her blog, which am not to happy i did, she simply seems like a but hurt baby.

PS: i want a refund on my 10min i spend reading that blog.

EDIT: Fact of the matter is, anyone i know who has played the game ARR, has walked away impressed and exited for 2.0. As such i do NOT think that the opinion of this fan girl matters even in the slightest.

GW2 is a terrible game, and she is just mad.

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Originally Posted by Aion

So on Fate thing, what would she think if there is no lvl limit, then in her noobness day doing FATE, I wipe her mobs,mwahahahahhahah.

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yeah, that's one of the things that made me seriously head-desk. Makes you wonder if she ever really played a MMO before.

It doesn't need to stand out. We are at a point in the genre that nearly everything has been done already. If you stray too far from a winning formula the ppl cry whine and revolt and said mmo is deemed a failure.

Some ppl don't want to admit the fact that they may need to take so break from mmos due to their own burn out.

What makes ffxiv arr stand out to me will be the story and the simple fact that it is final fantasy. It is the mmo I choose to play period. Everyone has the right to their opinion and can't or will not be swayed.

Like I said before arr could cure obesity and cancer and ppl still won't like it or feel its worth their time. So we shouldn't be bothered to be concerned that one or two or ten ppl say the same thing this chick says. Her words are a reflection of her opinion and tastes nothing more.

Anyone worth their salt will try a game for themselves if they want to truly play. Besides isn't that why most of us are here anyway? Just saying.

I mean, what more do people want in an MMO? Reinventing the wheel is no easy task, and has the most risks involved. It's not about the systems, it's about how the game is fun to the players.

Questing? Nearly all MMO's have some sort of questing, question is how did they implement it? Did she even try the game? Is she just looking at it from the outside, sees "questing" then automatically thinks it's going to be a certain way?

Jumping? So what if it has Jumping? It's there for entertainment purposes.

PVP? Most MMO's have PvP of Sorts even the Best MMO's have this feature.

Overall, I say so what if they put the best of MMO's into FFXIV (system wise). It's not what you put in, but how it's implemented.

Edit: Also, The types of content and how it's implemented is very important.

I'm ok with the review to be honest because it does nothing to change my opinion. I just find it odd how most of it was bashing the game and then towards the very end it sounded like she was trying to save herself from a horde of angry FXIV:ARR patrons (soon to be anyways unless you count trying to reserve a copy :D). Also, it just seems like it's not her gaming style is all. I've played GW2 and I couldn't make it very far due to the graphics making my eyes hurt (not quite bleeding) and the way the game was setup in general. Sure the game might be fun but not everyone is going to see it that way.

Let me just say, it really sounds like a lot of these reviewers are thinking ARR is coming out trying to be "the game that kills WoW". IMO that has never been the goal, its a game to please FF fans, comparing it to other mmos is a waste of time. They really should be comparing it to the other games in the FF franchise.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

I think one thing she fails to bring up is that at its core, this is a game to appeal to people that are fans of the FF series.

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Yoshida himself has went on record to say he's also trying to appeal to MMORPG players and want this game to compete. You can't compete with just FF fans alone since FF fans are already jaded about the series current situation. So while I don't think she "left something out", it's more she was looking at it as an mmorpg of today. There's still time to see what SE has planned, however, it really does look like any MMO you can pick up and play today, the only difference, your mounts will be FF related and you'll be playing jobs that's been in FF Mythos since the late 80s.

I mean, she was correct about this and let's be honest, based on what she said, how many people would have talked to the NPC when in XI (KI wise) and XIV 1.0 (in many situations) it would have automatically taken the items, expecting it to happen in ARR only to turn out you can't do that despite many other MMOs including ones SE has done before uses a system like that? That's a legit criticism, whether someone agrees with it or not, it's legit.

So it will be a fanservice title, but as an MMO it still has to be unique enough to draw people into it. Every new MMO draws a sizable crowed, however said crowd ends up getting bored because it's the same routine they did in their last MMO. So agree or disagree with the delivery of it, the concerns she brought up was legit.

As stated, ARR isn't trying to reinvent the wheel, however it's also not trying to do anything different from the norm. We still have to see what they're doing, because you can show F.A.T.E to anyone and most who play plenty of MMOs will say it sounds like something done in either XI, Rift, Tera or GW2. It's not a bad thing, but I know most of us read the recent interviews right? Yoshida isn't hiding he's looking at other MMOs and borrowing ideas.

@Lady:

This is the general mentality most gamers have because everyone turns back to WoW as if it invented the MMO genre, even developers always reference how WoW streamlined certain aspects.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I mean, what more do people want in an MMO? Reinventing the wheel is no easy task

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The funny part is that Guild Wars 2 tried to "reinvent the wheel" artificially, just to say "look at us! we're different!" with it's unsightly no-roles approach, and it simply made the game boring on the long run.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

The funny part is that Guild Wars 2 tried to "reinvent the wheel" artificially, just to say "look at us! we're different!" with it's unsightly no-roles approach, and it simply made the game boring on the long run.

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Systems are important yes, but It's more about how content is implemented ( or anything in general).

FFXIV 1.0 did have nice things on paper, but they implemented it poorly and thus how things turned out for FFXIV 1.0. Implementation is just as important as the content in the game.

The problem is not that she says that the game doesn't go out of its way to reinvent the wheel. The problem is that she indicates it as a bad thing, with an absolutely sensationalist, hyperbolic and unwarranted headline no less.

Innovation for its own sake is like the brown paint you use to paint horse dung and make it look like chocolate, so that the unschooled masses can feel smart while eating it. Only to discover that it doesn't really taste like chocolate.

Good game design is based on what is fun, immersive and interesting. Innovation always needs to take a back seat to that, as artificial and utterly failed attempts to reinvent the wheel in previous MMORPGs (including GW2) clearly shown.

What distinguishes a good MMORPG from a bad or mediocre one is not big headline genre-revolutioning innovation, but the array of subtle differences and how it all works together and encourages immersion, fun and especially community engagement (which is the primary factor to the success of a MMORPG).

And that's what sensationalist writers like this one always seem to miss, because their experience with the genre is way too shallow (most journalists don't play any MMORPG long enough to even get near understanding the genre and what its players want or like).

lol this article, sensationalist and hyperbole at once just to harvest those precious clicks, good thing my adblock is on so no money from my click

and that's EXACTLY why i don't give a shit about internet gaming "journalism"
sounds like she expected SE to "grease her palms" like so many gaming "journalists" are used to nowadays and it didn't happen.

highly unprofessional, but so is most of the industry these days /sigh

at least she gets (deservedly) ripped to pieces in the comments, a bit of faith in humanity restored

Eh, you can't please everybody - I haven't read the article myself, but the Penny Arcade articles tend to be negative towards everything, and very much self satisfied, as much as I enjoy the comic, their own writing section makes me hurt.

Honestly, players don't know what they want until they play it (some things I think sound awesome on paper I really don't enjoy, while things I honestly would run from if you gave them to me end up being things I play for hours), and you are definitely not going to come to a conclusion (about any MMO) in a couple of press days. You can say it looks good, plays well, has a nice new gimmick or does the fundamentals well, but a lot of the time it isn't until you have been absorbed into the world (or not as the case may be) that you can really give a decent opinion.

I read folks slagging off World of Warcraft for example, but I still play that eight years on. Folks thought the Old Republic would be ever so fantastic - and on a check box, it solves exactly what everyone who complains about World of Warcraft of today complains about, with the full skill trees, need for crowd control, defined roles etc but that isn't what they actually want now - however, again I have been playing that since launch. I like me some Star Wars.

At the same time, I see a lot of folk here filled with great memories of Final Fantasy XI - myself, I have given it four or five shots, my most recent on the break from Final Fantasy XIV...but I just can't enjoy it - that doesn't mean it is a bad game, but it just isn't the one for me. As far as markets go, you definitely don't need to revolutionise - look at Call of Duty, iPhones - World of Warcraft was just a nicely streamlined version of the Western MMO, with Final Fantasy XI - from what I can gather - being a game based on Everquest.

We also have to remember that in Japan (and heck, for the Playstation 3 owners) an MMORPG of this style isn't the norm. Even things like the feedback on the mouse keyboard controls amazed me - I didn't even realise that so many couldn't play like that. What do you have on the Playstation 3? DCUniverse Online - which again, I've played from launch *laughs* - is a great game. I love it actually, but for me, I play it as an 'action' game rather than an MMORPG - you could flick it from the MMO genre into single player co-op no problem, and the Legends PvP (where you play Heroes and Villains such as Batman and Joker) could very well be a really fun stand alone game.

For many folks on the Playstation 3, this will be their first chance to truly 'live' in another world, take an evening to gather goods, crafting and the like, rather than pure murder at all times. Build up houses, accidentally drown in the deep end of the bath...and then go and take on the Garlean Empire. For Japanese players, it could very well be the first MMORPG of this ('western') style they play, taking them slightly out of their comfort zone but with their hand held by a well known franchise.

Also, Guild Wars 2...I really want to like it, but everything seems to lack weight and faceplanting after a four foot drop gets old fast, as funny as it may be.

The devs never said they were inventing the wheel, so these so called journalists shouldn't be expecting anything of the sort. It is however going to be unique by it's systems (yes they borrowed from other MMOs, but they put their own twist on most of them). The armory system and armory board, materia system, crafting, etc...

And since the author is comparing this game to gw2. Well that didn't really invent anything either. You feel so useless and easily replaceable, that no one cares if you're there or not. You don't really matter! No one relies on anyone, no teamwork.
And if she says that the maps are confusing because they are separated by regions, well gw2 has the most confusing maps. The land is multi-layered. It shows something on the map, but is it over the bridge? Under the bridge? Is there a secret passage underground?:confused: At least ARRs are clear and have all the info you need on them.

And don't get me started on her FATE comment...

eeeeeee dear -_-

Pa report is never good. I don't understand why you would assume this would be different.

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

Well as much as I hate to say it. Look at what she's talking about. She doesn't feel the game is unique enough outside of the job system and story. On a separate review that came out yesterday, I read the very same thing. IF there are two people that had a chance to get their hands on the game, and play it to make this opinion/review about the game, then it's a potential issue for ARR.

Call it what you want, say haters gonna hate, call her a fan-girl. Fact of the matter is that this has been mentioned by two separate reviewers who both had gotten a chance to play the game, and didn't walk away impressed.

The reason why I even bring this up is because the negative press that can spread. Someone who had played XIV 1.0 and gave up, or a potential player that never got a chance to play 1.0 and is interested in 2.0 since he heard the game is completely redone, could read this and be like "no thanks".....and there goes a potential customer.


Another thing, even if she is a GW2 fan-girl, isn't the goal to appeal to more mainstream mmo players, that do indeed play competitors games? I thought it was. You're telling me that someone who plays LOLGW2 played ARR and walked away? Especially considering ARR is similar to GW2 in a lot of ways now (some that she mentions), this is an issue. I worry about this because I don't want a bad launch, I want the game to thrive.

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Hello and welcome to Video Game Journalism.

You don't need to adhere by any strict journalism regulations, have gotten a communications or journalism degree, or any experience with journalism. You just need to have a Wordpress blog that you spent 30 minutes installing, and be a socially dysfunctional basement dweller who can spend hours a day finding articles supporting your already well defined opinion.

If you have a personal opinion of a game, you are encouraged to express it regardless of whether it's true or what your research has found, because it gets you page hits and e-fame. Whatever personal convictions you have, such as Men's Rights, Weeaboo Games Suck, or Western Games Are All About Meathead Marines, is going to be the major focus of your new s**ty opinionated tabloid-blog objective news reel.

And if someone else offers to buy your opinion for direct money, hot damn you better do it.

reviewer is yet another mouth-breathing idiot who doesn't understand the difference between a beta and a demo. but like i said in another thread- it really doesn't matter since penny arcade hasn't been relevant in years.

I don't know what else to say about this review, except I don't think she did her research, her depiction of Bahamut/Dalamud's role in the events, and areas in 2.0(Her SPELLING is most damning, that's all I'll say on the matter) was like "Cowboy Bebop at His Computer", to borrow a tvtrope phase.

And FATE's system of excluding a too high leveled character from taking rewards by soloing group content sounds fine, to be honest, I'd say level snyc would work too, but as it stands, it serves its purpose. If low level people are involved, it prevents ninja looting from the high level player.

But what do I know, I like exploring, and seeing the reviewer moan over "How do I shot map" is a sad thing to watch, as if there's no extent that would satisfy a person that insists on being handholded. Not three clicks, zero clicks!, not a spot on the map, give me the breadcrumbs and a GPS lady!

Makes me want to rant to be honest.

She makes one small reference to GW2 and you all brand her a butt-hurt GW2 fan-girl. She makes some fair points, remember the game is in beta, it is unlikely any of it's mechanics and content is perfected yet. If you can't bare the criticism or face the fact that the game may have flaws then you may want to give the beta a miss.

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Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

remember the game is in beta, it is unlikely any of it's mechanics and content is perfected yet

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we remember it's in beta. she doesn't seem to know what beta is. and considering she doesn't frame her 'review' in the context of it being a phase 1 beta, i think you're barking up the wrong tree with this argument. better to tell her.

seriously, though. count up the number of times she actually reminds the reader that it's a beta. let me know what you find.

(hint: it's a really really low number)

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Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

She makes one small reference to GW2 and you all brand her a butt-hurt GW2 fan-girl. She makes some fair points, remember the game is in beta, it is unlikely any of it's mechanics and content is perfected yet. If you can't bare the criticism or face the fact that the game may have flaws then you may want to give the beta a miss.

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She sets GW2 as her comparison, and then goes back to reference it multiple times in the article.

It's literally a tribalistic, us vs. them (GW2 vs FFXIV) article.

It's the exact opposite of what real journalism is. It is Video Game Journalism®.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

She sets GW2 as her comparison, and then goes back to reference it multiple times in the article.

It's literally a tribalistic, us vs. them (GW2 vs FFXIV) article.

It's the exact opposite of what real journalism is. It is Video Game Journalism®.

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this^

and the ironic part is that she doesn't even play GW2 anymore. nobody does.

She might as well have written the article in first person narrative, skipped out on the grammar and punctuation, and laced it with profanity. It's absolutely nothing more than someone's s**tty fanboy/hateclub opinion, written with 10th grade vocabulary.