Hmm, recently [that is, about five minutes ago (actually, Hestern, it was five minutes ago when you started writing this post, but you rambled so much that it has been more than an hour now, and since you'll spend another thirty minutes editing this thing, it might be longer)] I made two posts in two different threads encouraging a more accepting and compassionate approach to thread responses. Now, as a consequence of this, I would like to make a more formal statement to the community at large (I may have copy/pasted a little bit from one of my earlier thread posts, by the way! I am such a cheater!).
Let us begin. I understand that we sometimes feel a little annoyed by the constant Ferris wheel of repetitious and redundant topics, shortly followed by topics complaining about the sheer number of topics that are repetitious, redundant, silly, or dulll, only for the Ferris wheel to come back again, come off the tracks, roll through the clown show, smash a few elephants, destroy the cotton candy machine and then squish a bunch of children having a nice day...
...Maybe that was a bit too elaborate. Ahem.
I can understand that a poorly formulated thread post can sometimes irk people's nerves as well as upset some people reading, perhaps either due to a need for depth or a need for originality. I can also understand wishing for others to consider their responses a bit better as well as wishing for others to use the search function more often. Of course, it makes perfect sense that we would want more relevant and diverse topics to be showing up on the thread tracker than a series of would-ya-could-ya-should-yas.
Continuing on, I can understand startling emotional fluctuations when one feels that they have been poorly treated by a group or by individuals. Considering a few instances, one might feel that they have been unfairly persecuted for starting a thread OR unfairly persecuted for having disagreed with that thread's topic. At other times, one might feel embarrassed when one's argument is refuted by a replying party's shocking phrases (a jar full of insults and some cleverly placed similes) and might want to respond with the same level of animosity in turn. These things and more might spark a desire - rash and melding - to respond to a person or a group of persons in a manner that focuses more on breaking others down than proving one's point. Even when one attempts to focus on proving one's point, personal conflicts from having felt insulted might arise, resulting in a less than generous explanation of one's position -- this, in turn, moves the reader of said position to feel affronted and begin another analogy-destroying ferris wheel catastrophe - all rotating to the fray.
I feel that we can be more understanding of developers and other players on this forum and in this game. We can continue to strive for a healthier gaming community, cookie dispensers included.
I really believe that we can all learn to disagree with other human beings in a more effective manner - moreover, in an empathetic manner - and cease the endless yarn of "I hate you because of x" - "well you're dumb because of y" - "let's have a cat fight rawr". I really think that we can improve the quality of threads by taking a positive approach to our responses or even negate the existence of multiple threads (kept alive ONLY by angry posters) by posting only in topics that are grabbing the most posts at the time ( I am referring to multiple threads on the same topic, not all threads in general). We can work together - I know it! :)
Of course, I can be a downright ***** when I am offline and I am sure all of us can admit that much is true of anyone. But, when I am online, at least, I always try to remind myself that I don't actually have to press the REPLY button when I am in a thread and when I do, that I don't necessarily have to say things in the manner that they first materialize in my head, emotionally fueled or otherwise. :)
I would just like to encourage us to say only what we intend to say to move the conversation further and spend less time saying things we want to say to move the conversation deeper into personal territory.
Okay, okay, I know, I am a little flowery blossom who thinks cupcakes fall out of my eyes and that dreams wrap delicately about the world to bring us to a fluffy puppy exaltation. I'm a bit silly and optimistic - sometimes in a bad way. I get that. I also understand that it is arrogant of me to think that my words hold so much importance that they would require a thread start about them. I understand. Still, that doesn't mean that there isn't something to be taken from this glitter-in-the-wind post. I hope that other posters can see that. And I know: we can improve. :D
Thank you for reading. :o
(I do apologize for my lack of brevity and, I sense, my atrocious use of the human language)
To A Healthier Gaming Community!
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02-14-2013, 10:38 PMHestern_NesternTo A Healthier Gaming Community!
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02-14-2013, 10:44 PMalkhemyXIII
Agreed. A level of maturity is always a good thing.
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02-14-2013, 11:02 PMkazaran
The community in general is pretty good compared to other games. You have a couple confronting negative people, that eventually just meld in. You also have a few that do a little extra to pull topics together when some of us have busy lives and can't catch up on all the news.
Even with new people on the horizon, many are other mmo gamers that have matured and will be able to contribute. We'll be ok. -
02-14-2013, 11:03 PMJynx
You think this is bad. Try somewhere like the Bioware forums if you want to see what a toxic community is really like.
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02-14-2013, 11:15 PMkazaran
Oh god not some of the bioware ones, they are just straight out mean, condescending, and evil.
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02-14-2013, 11:19 PMrina_inversethis is not bad?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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02-14-2013, 11:24 PMMillerna
I usually don't even visit official forums because of all the nonsense on them, but here it's fairly reasonable for the most part.
A lot of MMOs are just solo games until end-game. You level up, join a guild and do end-game. Your guild is the best one, and everyone outside the guild are idiots not worthy of your attention, let alone help. Of all the MMOs I've played, those with forced grouping to level up (aka oldskool/hardcore MMOs).
That said, there are always people that make it worth giving a pickup group another try, and I have to say I've been lucky in both SWtOR and TSW with meeting some nice people through random pickup groups. -
02-14-2013, 11:40 PMCendres
I always enjoy these threads and you are right we should remember that we are talking to other human beings just like us and try to envision ourselves face to face, at least this helps me. However I grew up when forums first appeared and the forum warrior is pretty strong in me, it can be hard to resist a well placed flame or two, it's almost like it's part of the communication process. I can also say that some of my best online battles with people have resulted in lasting online friendships oddly enough. Maybe because we all enjoyed a good debate?
I'm not trying to excuse the behavior but just shedding some understanding on how it happens. :P I'm also a card carrying member of the Bioware network and to that I can honestly say that the social network was the worst thing to happen to our community. When it was just a forum like this one it was fine, and I've known a lot of the same old members from back then and they were all pretty mature intelligent people. Then ME2 blew up the community (or was it DAO?) and we've got too many people to deal with. Like the WoW forums... >.>
This is why a smaller community is a good thing in this respect. -
02-14-2013, 11:43 PMHestern_Nestern
I understand that, given perspective (say, Bioware Forums, as good Jynx suggested), one can reasonably exclude a "quieter" place like this from emotional responsibility. That makes sense.
And if this is really true, then I hope my post can at least serve as a preventative measure to us players, if this forum isn't serious enough yet to require a bandage. :)
Nevertheless, while I strive always to be understanding, I still feel as if citing another venue's more venomous condition as an excuse of "bad" behavior is opposite to the blossoming of compassion in other human beings. Does that make sense? Now, it is likely that said posts were made in the interest of helping me to appreciate what we have here on this forum, and I thank you (Jynx & perhaps Kazaran) for that. I only make this statement now in the interest of clarity, so as not to say that I agree with that sentiment entirely, when in some veins I do not (honesty is very important to me). :)
I do know that it is presumptuous of me to use the word "excuse" in that context and will happily rescind that statement if it is confirmed that I misunderstood it.
Thank you for all of the positive replies so far. :D -
02-14-2013, 11:46 PMLadyI've wondered about why people got so upset over a question being repeated for awhile now. Personally, it doesn't bother me for the most part (except those trolls that think its funny to announce they got an email from SE, that annoys me lol). I think there are some people out there who see a new post, hope for new information, and are so sorely disappointed that its a repeat thread, they lash out. Then, because those people have set a standard, we soon get the followers who want to elevate themselves above the crowd, and see a repeat thread and attack it because it has become "the thing to do". That's when we see the "LOCK THIS THREAD" and "SEARCH THE FORUMS BEFORE YOU POST" people spamming a thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hestern_Nestern
Irony is, if they didn't post, or just answered the question, the post would soon disappear from the first page. -
02-14-2013, 11:47 PMUmoThat's not a matter of luck, but a matter of choice. You don't meet nice people: most of the times, you are kind enough to get the others be kind with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Millerna
OT, I'm supporting Hestern's ideas. Absolutely. -
02-14-2013, 11:59 PMHestern_NesternOh, believe me, I've made my own ifrit-charged responses back in my day. It is a rather amusing truth, I suppose, that IRL I am a very easily annoyed person, despite how understanding I try to be online. But, on the internet, it is so much easier for me, because I can ignore my stronger emotions and focus on giving meaningful responses to other posters. Of course, a mean response is so much quicker to write, as when I am being nice I spend twenty minutes OR MORE on most of my posts just to get the right flow to the thing and also the right intent crafted down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cendres
I am trying to improve the way I approach everyday conversations IRL and I like to use the internet as a way to practice that technique. It seems to be working for me -- well, ever so slowly. Did I mention the ever so slowly bit? Teehee. :o
Thanks for your post and for allowing me to understand a few things. :cool:
Edit: I forgot to say that I have made a few friends through good "debates" as well. It's weird but - hey - sometimes it works. (insert laughing emoticon here) -
02-15-2013, 12:05 AMAltenaI am the dead opposite.. I am a kind, gentle, caring soul in RL..Quote:
Originally Posted by Hestern_Nestern
On here I can be a royal arse.
As for repeat threads, I would much rather a page full of threads about completely different topics, over a page full of threads whinging about beta not being out.. That is the sort of level we are hitting at the moment. -
02-15-2013, 12:17 AMSkyeWindbinderI'm glad to see someone else thinks this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady
I never had even a little problem with people repeating a question. Especially since sometimes SE just doesn't want to give an answer, lol. Who really cares? The only kind of people who really would are those with waaaaay too much time on their hands. Just my $0.02. -
02-15-2013, 12:43 AMHestern_NesternQuote:
Originally Posted by Lady
I believe Lady's assessment of the situation is right. I also like what you had to say on the matter. It is definitely reinforced to the point of not really thinking about it and just taking action. Also, and I know this is vapid of me, but I am extremely honoured to have you two in my thread, I just have to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder
:O gasp! You quoted my post as "emo stuff"! Why you :mad:, I oughta rock'em sock'em robots, I oughta crispy creme doughnuts, I oughta let ma urban dictionary go nutz, I oughta... just kidding! :p I am a little emotional lalafell, aren't I? Even now, I am tearing up over the wasted beauty of the pistachio shells that I have picked apart while reading this thread: "OH, SO COMPLETE, YET MY SELFISH HUNGER BROKE YOU!!!".Quote:
Originally Posted by Altena
Hmm, I didn't mean to suggest that I wasn't nice at all or that I eat people alive with my words IRL. It was more my meek attempt to dispel any notion that I thought I was or think I am some white angel of Yesterday's Nests. Teehee. :p
I can understand your irritation at repeat posters, given the lack of things to do in relation to FFXIV, and everyone's excitement. It's understandable. I wouldn't tell you to discard those feelings. I think the best approach to such threads would be to avoid posting in them, as a thread without posts is a dead thread indeed. ;) -
02-15-2013, 12:46 AMispanoJust thinking about it gives me a headache.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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02-15-2013, 12:58 AMCendres
Forum rules and nettiquette is something that has been really lax in the past 5-7 years or so. It used to be a lot more strict when communities were smaller and there were more volunteer moderators. You would not start a new thread if there was already an old one on the same topic, but then later on they introduced the necro thread, so you could not post in a thread that was too old and you had to begin a new one.
These two opposing rules have been the cause of a lot of annoyance in forums where the mods don't stress what it is that they want done. In here it's okay but there could be more enforcement on duplicate threads especially if they are hours apart...... >.> -
02-15-2013, 01:00 AMRadacci
No, people are dumb, and i want to punch them! :)
You shouldn't talk to dumb people, so they don't get no silly ideas that it's ok to be dumb. Or if you do talk to them, you should point out how dumb they are, so they can become less dumb. But if they could be made less dumb, they wouldn't have been so dumb to begin with? Look at Bush for example, you think he could be made less dumb? i think not.
Cookies for all non-dumb people, and a punch in the face for the rest :D
haha same here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altena
i'm the nicest guy, but on the internet, i'm fuming with rage ^^
but that's just cause of the sheer mountainous wall of stupidity that some people show, and i don't understand how people can be so dense and stupid :)
but then again, sometimes i look back on old posts i made, and i cringe, and wonder what the fck i was thinking. so i guess i should try to think more in line, that those stupid people are just having a stupid moment, and i should be more forgiving :)
it's difficult to know peoples intentions on internet; if they are serious or just trolling. but sometimes i feel like punching first, and ask questions after ;D -
02-15-2013, 02:41 AMPwnagraphic
I thought this was going to be a post about healthy eating, exercise, and when to know enough is enough for one day of gaming.. Hm.
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02-15-2013, 03:26 AMDzian
I think often topics get repeated because no answers ever surface. or the devs seem quiet about what we the player base. (generally speaking) percieve as important issues. yet occassionally information about things that we the player base consider insignificant surface.
this is all generally speaking. but to various degrees it can be fairly visible if you scroll back through various threads such as the live letter questions. you get some questions that feel like they should be more relelvenat than others. and often see questions that seemingly have a hundred likes get ignored and qustions with 4 or 5 likes get answered. some i've asked myself admittedly but there a questions others ask that i would rather see the answer to than some of those of my own.
I kind of feel that a lot of people are trying to put faith in ARR sucess but on occassions the lack of information on "hot topics" sometimes doesn't help fill people with confidence. but i do feel is a big factor in the sometimes dozens of threads about the same subject. while i don't blame the devs for this. ultimately they can only publish information they're given i do think it would help a lot if we the player base felt a little more heard at times.
for example discussions such as the item binding topic are pretty hot topics with 3 or 4 fairly large threads circling but there has been no clarification or information on the specifics or attempts to reassure the player base.
other topics in the past have been regarding ARRs loot system, content difficulty, Relic quests, and the infamous RNG.
all of which you could consider fairly major topics and critical to the games success. if contents to easy then theres no satisfaction in clearing it. if drops are impossible to get drop rates then people will likely give up. yes people spammed the hell out of dungeons for darklight but i wonder how many of those people would have stuck around if it arr wasnt waiting for them...
in short i guess being a little more forthcoming with answers and information would help the community a lot. -
02-15-2013, 03:32 AMAdvancedWind
If everyone starts acting like reasonable human beings, it would cut the fun factor of the forums by roughly 70%. Don't take away my fun.
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02-15-2013, 03:46 AMForgo
Oh you hest lol I agree though. If more ppl thought the same way then we can see alot less trolling around here and a lot less fighting.
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02-15-2013, 04:10 AMShougun
All the flowers and glitter talk, you must be a fairy!
^_^
(kidding, unless you like fairies - then not kidding.. your pick :D lol)
Nice post :) -
02-15-2013, 04:27 AMDhalmel
This would be possible if the mods would bring down the hammer of god on all of the useless idiotic trolling flamewar threads/posts.
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02-15-2013, 11:37 AMLaumeI think no one will disagree that a more mature approach would be better for the forums. I think the problem is judging what are the, "useless idiotic trolling flamewar threads/posts". Because even if someone is trolling, the question or point might still be a valid one for discussion. Or conversely, the "Sometimes I think 1 job might be better" thread, some people call it a troll. But it does sound like a rational opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhalmel
I've personally just followed the rule of if I feel that the thread is bad/insulting/waste of time/<insert other negative assessments here>, the post isn't probably for me so I should just move on. Any replies to said post that I make should only be in the fashion of correcting statements that may not be correct or entirely correct. That seems to work pretty well so far. -
02-15-2013, 12:51 PMIkkenoeAllow me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady
http://i.imgur.com/kUZGh2T.png
http://i.imgur.com/5LwcJ7Z.png -
02-15-2013, 01:06 PMLaumeSo you're saying we should all learn japanese? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Ikkenoe
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02-15-2013, 01:29 PMZehiraFunny, I took screenshots like this from the alpha forums but I dunno if I should post it here though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikkenoe
It will happen again in the Beta forums sadly. -
02-15-2013, 03:32 PMMasamune1004
It's a catch 22. At first the devs were open about info and release dates and they got bitched out when things weren't exactly as they said they would be. Now they're keeping most things quiet and getting bitched out again because of it.
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02-15-2013, 04:13 PMDarkillumina
As much as I hate to say it, these forums aren't as bad as some I've seen. Sure there are idiotic threads and what have you but I get the feeling that most are well-intentioned.
Really the thing that irks me the most is people talking about events and content they haven't done and forming a half-ass opinion about it.
Also impatience and empty posting. Yes, most are addicted, but try and do something constructive in the down time instead of posting tasteless shit. Also forcing memes. Not funny.
Regardless, this forum is better than most and sometimes you can actually have a decent conversation with somebody which is exceedingly rare on some other boards. -
02-15-2013, 04:18 PMRicky
I thought this was going to be about physical health, I was going to come and talk about my daily exercise lol
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02-15-2013, 04:28 PMVitoScaletta
I remember the announcement that TERA was going F2P, they had official forums threads like, "F2P? well, time to grief". Most of the thread was actually in support of the OP as well, so yeah I'd say this isn't what a bad community looks like.
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02-15-2013, 08:56 PMHestern_NesternQuote:
Originally Posted by Pwnagraphic
Oh dear, I hadn't realized the implications of my subject title! Hmm. "To A Friendlier Gaming Community!" would have been better. I wonder if I can change it... (goes to check) ... although I sense this thread is coming to a close. Some interesting thoughts and theories - oodles and oodles of reassurances - and - oh - who posted this? -Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky
Noooo! You've discovered my true identity! YES, IT IS I, LALAFERRY! Yes, my ultra-secret-identity is spelt differently than the traditional fairy's name (rest assured I am still very much a fairy) - but you have to understand, localization, toponymy, and all those jazzy etymology slices mixed together into a pan and then baked for a century or so really shakes things up, ya know?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
It can be especially problematic at rivers, I'd have to say...people trying to ride my back...my aching back! :p -
02-15-2013, 11:22 PMNiqoteI believe there is an exception to every rule <3Quote:
Originally Posted by Hestern_Nestern
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...pscbab0f91.jpg -
02-15-2013, 11:49 PMHestern_Nestern<3 you're right...there really is. :o Hop on board anytime!Quote:
Originally Posted by Niqote
(mutters to self) And now I have to try to fit both of your lovely images into my signature. Ha ha ha. :cool:
Edit: Aww, it won't let me. It says "exceeded limit/we hate you" durr. Sigh. :( -
02-15-2013, 11:52 PMNiqoteI'm sorry ^^ I couldn't help myself because what you said was funny~ I can edit them both into 1 image if you like lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Hestern_Nestern
EDIT: yeah these forums will not allow multiple IMG tags in the sig ^^
Here you are:
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps84c1fbea.jpg
EDIT OMFG I was too busy trying to fit your little wings on (cos my butt is in the way) I totally forgot to draw my tail *dies* brb
Edit: fixed :D -
02-15-2013, 11:53 PMMuCephei
Very nice thread. ty OP
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02-16-2013, 12:59 AMHyrist
I like the concept. It will be an uphill struggle due to the reality that we are very opinionated people, and defend our recreational enjoyment fervently (and coming all from different perspectives of life). But I won't mind doing my part to be a bit more friendly and open around here. After all, we want as many as we can get to settle into this Realm Reborn and feel welcome in it.