I enjoyed playing 1.0 and am really looking forward to ARR, and one of the things that SE does really well in both FFXI and FFXIV is the combat animations. I loved playing Monk and Dragoon for this reason. However, I think FFXIV needs more diversity in the animations and in the gear choices (too many clones imho) - no matter how unique your character's face/hair are, two characters of the same race/job often look identical at first glance.
I would like to eventually see at least two different weapon choices per class in a fashion similar to FFXI, example:
Warrior - Great-Axe, OR Dual-Wield One-handed axes (don't think main-hand/off-hand with two different weapons) but a matched pair of axes that are bought/sold/equipped as a pair. This makes it easier to balance stats and materia issues, doesn't require a dual-wield trait, and only really changes the weapon animations, character appearance, and flow of TP.
Other options could be:
Paladin - Sword/Shield, OR Greatsword (obvious trade-off of defense/offense)
Archer - Bow, OR Crossbow/Musket
Dragoon - Spear, OR Staff/Rapiers
Monk - Fists, OR Batons/Kama
Black Mage - Wand/Staff, OR Dagger (thinking ornate sacrificial dagger, not a knife)
White Mage - Club/Staff, OR Hammer/Mace
I know this will be too much of a departure from the Armoury System for some people, and it would definitely would be a lot of work for the devs, with a lot of new weapons and animations, but it's what I personally would like to see.
More diversity among the existing classes and jobs, in addition to slowing adding more classes/jobs.
On that front I would like to see a support class (not just DD)in the form of a thief/ninja, to debuff the mob and expose/stun/interrupt mobs making them more vulnerable. In addition they can help redirect aggro/hate through trickery/misdirection.
Well, that's my two cents. To the Devs, keep up the good work.
Multiple Weapons per Class/Job
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02-09-2013, 03:33 AMShadowkeptMultiple Weapons per Class/Job
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02-09-2013, 03:47 AMShougun
I'd like to see real duel wield support, I think you could easily fix the materia problem by adding slots (2h have more slots, 1h have less (but you can use two)).
It will be awkward imo not being able to duel wield two different weapons.
Though I agree there should be weapon variety so, Yesh Prease!
I hope that they make all stats useful for every class so we can see some really varied builds and encouragement of different styles and weapons like a blackmage wielding a dagger for high critical chance and critical cap (str/dex) or using a staff for greater mp control and accuracy (mind/intelligence). Allocating stats is pretty much useless except for a few classes without something like this (to make stat consideration worthwhile).
You'd have to make some new relations to stats though like "why does STR make my magic hit harder" - you'd have to add some lore about magic being a very kinetic and physical action and having greater physical strength allows you to thrust your essence better (leading to higher damage caps, while Dex is better structure and timing to get criticals and int for accuracy or average damage, ect ect)
Of course there is a con to adding more weapons to each class - you will find a class competing with you for the drop on a dismillar class. "I want that axe!!" But you are a beastmaster you dont need it "makes my pets stronger because of high MND/STR" :(!
lol -
02-09-2013, 03:52 AMAmandaHuggenkiss
While this would be interesting.
I highly doubt it can work with the way the armory system works.
The only way it might would be for highly advanced jobs, something that would require say a Paladin and a Black mage to unlock, then that "Super Job" could use weapons form either. -
02-09-2013, 04:13 AMKlefth
I wish they just did away with the "armory" system altogether. It ends up being pretty restrictive and, from what I've seen in this thread, it will probably make it harder to come up with future classes further down the road.
I wish they instead allowed us to change classes/jobs with the soul crystals we used for jobs instead of them being bound to a certain type of weapon. That would allow to add more freedom on weapon choices for each class/job à la XI, and would probably serve to eliminate those issues regarding future classes (like people wondering which class could lead to which job, which weapon would be appropriate for which class, and then that conflicting with it's possible job and all that kind of stuff that was being discussed in that thread).
Buuut I know that will probably never happen. :/ -
02-09-2013, 04:37 AMShadowkept
I agree that the stat issue would have to be worked out and wouldn't mind if different weapons/wield styles were used situationally, but mainly I just want to see more variety. The armoury system as is excludes soo many weapon types, because you would have to create a new class and corresponding job for each weapon: katana, great katana, scythes, greatswords, guns, etc.,.
I would still make very few weapons available to more than one class/job combination to avoid the competition you're referred to with the beastmaster example :). For example swords/Gswords would be Paladin only. Axes/Gaxes would be Warrior only. And you could even draw a distinction between knives/dagger for thief/blm and staves/staff for dragoon/whm in areas where you wanted overlap.
If you kept classes as they are (one weapon style/wield type) and gave jobs an additional wield option you would eliminate the need to have weapons of the same type such as Great Axe that are equipable by only one or the other i.e. - "Why can't my Warrior wield that Marauder only G.Axe but as when it's upgraded to Relic it's suddenly Warrior only?" This thinking makes little sense to me in terms of lore. If they wanted to put weapons in the game that only jobs could equip you could use the alternate weapon.
I understand wanting to be able to equip two different weapons in a dual-wield system but that presents a lot of complexity and flexibility that would be great for users but hard to play balance. If you are worried about the aesthetics of dual-wielding, the two "paired" weapons don't have to look the same. By paired I mean that instead of each having separate stats, they have a combined total of stats and DPS and one materia slot per the two weapons. -
02-09-2013, 04:47 AMNadrojj
Dual wield, while I liked it would be difficult. I remember in 11 when nothing touched it, and no one would ever use any other weapons on war again. Until the two hander buff that evened (if not made dual wield a thing of the past) the playing field. Some jobs I think would benefit from a dual wield trait, but I just don't want to get that omg you have to dual wield axes mentality in this game that we saw in the past.
What jobs would you like to see have the ability though? I can't think of many outside of marauders. If we had a thf/rouge type job I'd like to see it. If we ever do get a ninja job I'd like to see one katana to be honest. I don't remember seeing many ninjas using 2. -
02-09-2013, 05:12 AMAsael
Definitely a must like for this topic OP.
Alternate weapons for each class is definitely one of those things I would really love to see implemented sometime soon. It gives a feeling of variety and uniqueness to each class. The lack thereof is the soul reason why I never got into the marauder class/warrior job. What can I say, I am not and never have been a big fan of GAs. I would love to see something like great swords at some point or another because I for one would really love me some steel derpclone while wielding my sleek great sword. xD -
02-09-2013, 05:19 AMShadowkept
I would like to see a Thief dw'ing knives. A Corsair or Red Mage (w/e) dw'ing a pistol/rapier combo. If a Ninja class was created (I am not sure it fits the FFXIV "feel" which is arguably less oriental than FFXI) I think one katana as you stated, or Throwing Star/Wakizashi (short Katana) combo similar to the above mentioned Red Mage ranged/melee blend. The Red Mage (or Corsair) pistol and the Ninja throwing stars could be used at range for debuffing/building TP in addition to modest TP, and then melee Weaponskills at close range.
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02-09-2013, 05:22 AMShougunQuote:
Originally Posted by Shadowkept
You cannot not add Ninja. :P
I believe Ninja will be introduced in a new area/expansion along with Samurai (Allowing for the environment to be appropriate). That or they will hightech them a little, and letting environment / theme meet in the middle.
I think they can bring technology into FFXIV over time if they wanted - so you may get a sort of FFXIII/FFXII/Ninja Gaiden kind of thing (FFXIV is kind of at FFXII, Garleans are there but our own cities are at like FFIX and below lol). Though they really dont have to - I suppose we could blow up all the Garleans instead of taking their tech, and Cid could take his sweet ass time developing tech for the alliance. -
02-09-2013, 05:33 AMAsaelI think ninjas would fit in just fine honestly. To each their own I suppose, but to me FFXIV feels almost like a throw back to FFVI and that game had standard a-typical ninjas all over it. Though that's just me I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
Besides, they're ninjas... It's not like you would notice they were even there anyways. -
02-09-2013, 05:39 AMShadowkept
I don't mind "magic" powered tech, or even rudimentary tech like "steampunk". But I don't care to see futuristic tech especially in the areas of combat. The Ninja to me does not fit the vibe of the current state of FFXIV, but you could make a similar play style in a thief or red mage of sorts that relies more on implements than magic (grenades, throwing stars, smoke bombs, acid vials, potions): think Chemist from FF Tactics (throwing potions defensively, grenades offensively, or creating diversions) also could wield knives and guns O.o
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02-09-2013, 05:41 AMShadowkeptI like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asael
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02-09-2013, 05:42 AMKlefthThing is, they already said the next thing they wanted to add after summoner were ninja and samurai.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowkept
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02-09-2013, 05:46 AMShadowkept
I am ok if they do add those two next, I am more concerned about how they shape up. I think they should be creative with them and not simply recreate the FFXI versions. Also their garb would probably need to be altered or I think they would look out of place w/o an explanation as to where they hail from.
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02-09-2013, 06:06 AMJocko
I doubt you'll ever see this, simply because there are so many class skills and animations tied directly to their weapon. For example, Lancer has an attack where he leaps and chucks his lance like a javelin. Can't see that working with any other weapon type
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02-09-2013, 06:12 AMKlefth
Simple: make weaponskills tied to their respective weapons, and class/job skills to their respective class/job. Problem solved.
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02-09-2013, 06:17 AMPwnagraphic
Yeah I like variety. I don't like looking exactly like everyone else.
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02-09-2013, 06:56 AMPSxpert2011Well obviously these are mere ideas and I will respect it as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowkept
A saying goes, "There's more than one way to skin a cat"
Interpret it anyway you want but adding my two-cents in here is the following:
If there was a way to have a duel-wielding-weapon job or class, it wouldn't be for the current/ existing ones we have now because it would break the armoury system and design of class-swapping. It's entirely better than FFXIs way to change job IMO, but let's consider this to be a possiblity for one way or another...
...our jobs we have currently unlocked could be upgraded or used to unlock another!
Personally I would like to use clubs as a monk in FFXIV like I did in FFXI but as it stands now, I would have to unlock and progress for that ability so I don't break the system( who knows if there's another class or job that uses clubs).
What say you? -
02-09-2013, 10:54 AMShadowkept
Thank you for the thoughts. I know the armoury system is not universally applauded, but I actually like certain aspects a lot (like changing classes/jobs with the swap of a weapon). However, I think the ratio of classes to jobs being 1 to 1 is a little silly and limiting. I think you should start will a generic class archetype and move to something more specialized in a branching fashion which would mean many more jobs than classes
In order to see every weapon type that was offered in FFXI for example you would need a ton of classes > jobs.
I think there is room in ARR for one-handed axes and two-handed swords without having to create a class and job for each just to wield them.
I don't think dual-wielding breaks the armoury at all as long as the dual-weapons are still class/job specific. For example, great axes and dual-axes would both be Marauder/Warrior only. Equipping either weapon would change you to that class>job. Along the same lines I wouldn't let Warriors wield or dual-wield anything other than axes because swords and daggers would remain the domain of other classes and jobs. And yes new animations would be required for new weapons (that's kind of what I want - something new to look at).
What would "break" the armoury would be adding weapons that were equipable by multiple classes/jobs, and that's not necessarily what I am suggesting. Though if you did want to have overlap, such as give Dragoons rapiers or Black Mages daggers you could simply make a unique subset for those weapons that would be treated by the game as being different than equipping a sword.
I think you could give every current class/job an additional wield option, and still leave plenty of unexplored weapons with which to add future classes and jobs. -
02-09-2013, 11:53 AMAltena
I didn't read the OP, or the replies but the subject was self explanatory.. Sorry if it has been pointed out, as I am in a rush.
The armory system in a far-fetched way already opens this up to being a possibility.
If you look under the description of a weapon, it doesn't specifically say it's a "sword" (aside from the title of the item), it says "Gladiator's Arm", as an example..
This is already shown with CNJ & THM, where both classes can equip clubs and staves, yet the class that supports them is described in the finer print.
In future (let's presume the multi-job system is going to happen), I am sure it wouldn't be difficult to have say a "Scythe" for LNC and call it "Dark Knight's Arm" (as an example).
The only issues I can see with this are the animations for certain skills are fairly distinct for the weapon they are using, although this could potentially be modified in the future. -
02-09-2013, 12:00 PMKryptic
Sadly with the current class system I don't see them doing any of this. As weird as it is to say some of my most memorable times in FFXI was just getting a bunch of people and skilling up over in Kuftal tunnel talking in vent and what not. It would be nice and would allow for more customization between classes so everyone isn't the same but sadly it seems it's to late.
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02-10-2013, 01:18 AMPSxpert2011I really do think it's possible (and code-wise too).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryptic
Customization has always been influenced using the class system except for using sub-class abilities... and everyone should know this and understand. It's a modified job and sub-job successor, we can just change on the fly(which is better than any other MMORPG system out there).
On the job level/ dimension, we should be able to customize our choice of weapon and defense(instead of being a cookie-cutter job) but still follow the same role.