On the Properties of Primals.

Ok, so, as we all know, Odin has been showcased as one of the Elder primals in 2.0, and has been slated as what Bahamut has succumbed to instead of destroying the world.
However, as we also know, Primals are the Deities of beastmen races.
The Ixali have Garuda, just as Ifrit is sanctified by the Amal'jaa.
The Sahagin have Leviathan and Kobolds have Titan.
Moogles have Good King Mog (technically), and Bahamut is the Dragon's Primal and Midgarsomr their King, yet that leaves us with a few beastmen races.
Goblins and Qiquirns are most definitely beastmen, yet they don't seem to have a specific primal that they worship. At least not yet, anyway.
That's not why I'm starting this thread anyway.
What I want to bring your attention to is this;
Sorrel Haven, in 1.0 was comprised of a pit surrounded by a circular monument and Jadite statues of what can only be considered as Tonberries.
Come 2.0, I pick from no mean source that these Tonberries are gone.
It could be that Jadite is a brittle material, which would shatter upon such an attack as megaflare. We don't know, however. After all, the larger statue made of Jadite within the shroud is intact, so we can only presume it is at least somewhat resilient to blows.
As such, I think the disappearance of the Tonberries is more than circumstance.
I think that Odin was summoned by these Tonberries.
We don't really see Dragons in XIV, the best we see are Drakes. A different species, I assure you; simply look at the way they move, the way they stand, the attacks they perform.
As such, I would wager that the Tonberries are behind the resurgence of Odin.
It has been shown before that Beastmen are capable of summoning, and what better a place than the Circular temple of Sorrel Haven?
Moreover, I seem to recall the Tonberry and Odin summons were in the same place in FFVIII; if you need more proof of a connection.
Both are somewhat slow, Odin often counts down before his attack, and deals massive damage.
Tonberries often exhibit similar traits.
So, there you have it.
If this happens, I called it. If not... well, at least I had good measure.

You forgot the Sylphs and Midgardsormr isn't a Primal. He is the guardian of the big lake in Mor Dhona irrc.

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Originally Posted by Kirol

<snip about Primals>

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Primals seem to be more patrons than anything else. They don't look anything like their benefactors, so it seems that they're just latching onto their society - these beings come from the aether ("not beyond, but amongst") and identify with a group, using them as a base that they then give supernatural gifts and power to in exchange for aether and worship.

However, getting involved in a contract with these beings seems to cause a lot of problems - the races, like the primals, become very protective of aetheric monopolies, quick to anger, abusive of power, and paranoid of others' intentions.

For this reason, it's clear that Moogles, Goblins, and Qiqirn aren't meant to have legitimate primals because it would ruin their playful, morally ambiguous nature. Good King Moggle Mog is referred to as a "Legendary" figure that they called from the ather "as if it were" a primal.

The only exception to this is possibly the Sylphs, who stood by their "we're not summoning the primal" goal before - but if Ramuh's coming into being, then either we need a new beastman race aligned with thunder (less likely), or they're going to fall from grace.

Midgardsormr isn't a Primal - he, like the Sea Serpent we saw in the Lominsan opening, is a great beast credited to being created by The Twelve; great beings that came into existence at the same time as other facets of reality, such as water, aether, etc.

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Originally Posted by Kirol

As such, I would wager that the Tonberries are behind the resurgence of Odin.

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That's an interesting thought - though, tonberries are often of the semi-violent ambiguous beastmen akin to the qiqirn and goblins. One thing you have going for you is that their element hasn't been represented and is not one of the Six Aspects. Tonberries are associated with colorless magics, particularly light, or in this case, "Astral."

The location fits, at least, as I'm starting to think that Odin was the primal that caused the Empire to halt their advance in the first place.

Anonymoose, you called that. It's almost half two in the morning here. Still, you called it. Bahamut is their primal. My bad.

beaten to the punch :3

You get a like for your humility. <3

I spent too long looking for Yoshi-P's post :3

though I do like reading peoples theory crafting :D

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

The only exception to this is possibly the Sylphs, who stood by their "we're not summoning the primal" goal before - but if Ramuh's coming into being, then either we need a new beastman race aligned with thunder (less likely), or they're going to fall from grace.

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Well, yes. Considering that they seem to be aggro in 2.0, that would be the consensus. I've seen aggro and placid sylphs, so they seem to be similar to Goblins and Qiqirn in that respect. Perhaps these three races are split on the idea of the 'human' races.

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That's an interesting thought - though, tonberries are often of the semi-violent ambiguous beastmen akin to the qiqirn and goblins. One thing you have going for you is that their element hasn't been represented and is not one of the Six Aspects. Tonberries are associated with colorless magics, particularly light, or in this case, "Astral."

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Well, given I played XI, I'd say they're more of a Rainbow.
A Rainbow of hatred and destruction.
They had a hate bar which built up the more you killed of their species, but there was no way to help them... so I guess you're stuck with Everyone's Grudge.
At least in XI, their element was Astral since their patron dropped Carbuncle's Mitts, which made them Astral.
That said, Odin is Non-elemental, and for the majority of the games, as are they.

Considering SE gave the Tonberry an actual backstory that tied into the overall storyline for Zilart and CoP expansions, I wouldn't be surprised if they're another active role and could be linked to Odin, but that would place the Tonberry on a very high spot in the "humanity" hierarchy, since unlike the rest, they're the ones who brought back an elder primal, meanwhile the other lowly denizens are merely bringing about elemental primals.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/blog/post/130

... called it.

(Only just read that, my post came before I was aware of this. ^^; )

Could it have something to do with how Gridania had planned to do war with the Garlean Empire?
I can't recall them ever elaborating on what exactly they were doing that required a cover up and a presumed lost forever like excuse for a bunch of people. What if the crystalised tonberries were originally Gridanians who offered their own aether or something to that effect to Summon Odin? causing them to change into that tonberry like form and crystalise. Also Bahamut's arrival caused alot of aether to be returned to the land so perhaps that allowed their crystalised forms to return to life? If that was the case they really would have the green wrath =P

It has been confirmed a long time ago (and even more through the a lpha):

Sylphs are summoning Ramuh as Primal.

And it has been leaked a long time ago that Shiva shall be summoned by a new race of giant in the new ice zone. (still vague)

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Originally Posted by Liham

It has been confirmed a long time ago (and even more through the a lpha):

Sylphs are summoning Ramuh as Primal.

And it has been leaked a long time ago that Shiva shall be summoned by a new race of giant in the new ice zone. (still vague)

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Sounds like Gigas to me.

I've never been able to see the tonberrys in those rocks, they just look like lumps of amber to me... but anyways, back to the main topic. If I recall correctly when we first heard about Odin Yoshi stated that he was an elder primal, and that he was different from the other primals because he was once human. So, if I had to hazard a guess I'd say that Odin was once a hero or king in the Allagan empire who was turned into a primal to insure that Bahamut could be contained should Dalmund fall and their system (the twelve) fail to re-seal it. I'd say the appearance of Odin and the crystal tower (I'm assuming it's the same crystal tower that served as the tomb for an Allagan king buried in Mor Dhona) after Bahamut is freed points towards a connection between Odin and the Allagan empire at the very least.

Dunno where the humble tonberry would fit into this if I'm right, but they might just be introduced as voidsent.

Seems to make sense.
Could be that the Tonberries have more to do with Carbuncle than they do Odin, and I'm jumping to massive conclusions here.
In terms of XI lore they did at least, though FFVIII Odin and the Tonberries were found at the same location.
I guess this is one of those wait-and-see kind of things.

Anyone else think that the beastmen will be super pissed that Free Companies are going to be summoning their deities?

Or maybe the Twelve will be pissed too. It's Sacreligious after all.

Sorrel haven? South of Humblehearth? It has and has always had the big twinkly tree. My LS leveled to 50 there regularly for jobs, back before job quests ever sent us there. Back when the path was very heavy aggro. Even the area past the tree was an empty dead end except for lots of 90+ qiqirn.

I think youre talking about the ruins at last hold north of Treespeak, guarded by high end drakes, ixali,raptors, efts and hogs. And a smattering of Malboro at the ruins once there.

I'm going to setup a market stall selling Tonberry plushies.

Yeah, I didn't check the names... Looks like I got 'em mixed up. I was thinking of Lasthold. It's just north of there - Gelmorra ruins.

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Originally Posted by Kirol

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/blog/post/130

... called it.

(Only just read that, my post came before I was aware of this. ^^; )

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Careful. Fernehalwes has a sense of humour and could be deliberately trolling us.

On the Odin topic, I'm taking the FFIV style origin of Odin once being human and running with it.
Louisoix becomes Odin. I'm calling it now.

Can't be. Odin is an Elder primal, sealed Bahamut the first time around... So he came before Loui.
As for once Human, I think that's the General concencus.

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Originally Posted by Kirol

Can't be. Odin is an Elder primal, sealed Bahamut the first time around... So he came before Loui.
As for once Human, I think that's the General concencus.

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And where do you get the idea that he sealed Bahamut the first time around? :/

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Originally Posted by Kirol

Can't be. Odin is an Elder primal, sealed Bahamut the first time around... So he came before Loui.
As for once Human, I think that's the General concencus.

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How do you know Loui wasn't Odin in a mortal disguise all along?

Gods disguising themselves as mortals to watch over them, happens in stories all the time!