The Twelve

I was pondering if the Twelve will be in 2.0...

In my opinion, I think they should unexist at this point. My support to this idea comes from when Bahamut was rampaging. Louisoix, and the others used prayers to try and seal Bahamut up in that blue Dalamud.

Have you ever noticed during any disaster faith is usually at it's strongest.

But not only did it not work to seal Bahamut, but killed mostly everyone. The few that did survive, should have lost all faith at this point. Figured people would not believe if a force that couldn't save them during an event on that scale.

I would think in the other way here, while the twelve didn't stop balamut they still give Louisoix the power to send us (our characters anyway) to the realm between (the void) or we would have died and it all ended there..and the fact they showed up means that they cared enough to try to save a people that had lost their way...

Yes it could go both ways, but only we saw him do that. The ones who didn't fight yet survived, most likely struggled to rebuild. If they lost their faith, yet we saw what faith can do in the last moments.

5 years later, I don't think people would have their faith restored. Who knows what's happening between the 5 years from now? Maybe I am wrong.

So long as that cathedral's there so I can marry my 1 true love. :3

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I was pondering if the Twelve will be in 2.0...

In my opinion, I think they should unexist at this point. My support to this idea comes from when Bahamut was rampaging. Louisoix, and the others used prayers to try and seal Bahamut up in that blue Dalamud.

Have you ever noticed during any disaster faith is usually at it's strongest.

But not only did it not work to seal Bahamut, but killed mostly everyone. The few that did survive, should have lost all faith at this point. Figured people would not believe if a force that couldn't save them during an event on that scale.

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let me guess, you want to stop worshiping the twelve and start worshiping a tonberry?

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Originally Posted by valetarkus

let me guess, you want to stop worshiping the twelve and start worshiping a tonberry?

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HA! No me and Jin were talking about it, watching Iron Man 2 when the quote came up "If you can make god bleed, then people will stop believing in him".

Me if i were to role play this and seeing Bahamut make the 12 look like a bunch of nothings i would stop believing in them cause they couldnt help you if you really did need it. Though this is coming from the guy who would join the Empire in 1 second if SE allowed it, and sign my ass right up to the 7th Imperial Legion lol.

And since the bestmen can pray to the Primals as gods, why cant we. After seeing the Elder Primal in action, ill pray to him!

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Originally Posted by valetarkus

let me guess, you want to stop worshiping the twelve and start worshiping a tonberry?

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Nothing that 50% of my posts have to deal with being a Red Wizard, or 25% of wanting to play as a tonberry, or wanting a tonberry mount... Can't I get alittle more credit than that :c

I just want to see if there is a whole different dimension where we could meet the Twelve... or at least our patron diety.

i dont wanna believe in the 12 anymore. i wanna worship Odin

First, I don't see Bahaumet as really being all that powerful. What I saw was Bahaumet escaping from Dalmud where he was chained and forced to provide power to Dalmud. The attempt to capture Bahaumet failed because it had not completed. That sealing was not being done by the Twelve. It was being done by Luisouix (sp?). Just because one powerful mage didn't have the ability to cast that spell on the fly, does not reflect on the Twelve. As I see it, the Twelve are in separate realities from Eorzea and don't pay much attention to what they consider trivial problems. Just because we don't think they should have let the Era end, doesn't mean our viewpoint means much. SOOOO... Events do not reflect on whether or not the Divines might still provide Divine blessings and aid.

well the way i see it it was the 12 symbols of the gods that we had to pray to which amounted to nothing in the first place. And Bahamut is all powerful he only set everything we all know and love on fire in a matter of seconds of coming out of Dalamud. And the 12 did not help in our Darkest Hour Sorry for my aspect of RPG i would stop believing in gods that dont help.

I can't believe I am saying this but on the other hand, the world seems to have been rebuilt in record time and if The Twelve helped make that happen then perhaps that would give the survivors faith in them.

You know, it kinda reminds me of Calypso in Pirates of the Caribbean.
Barbossa gets all the pieces of eight from the pirate lords in a hope of freeing this goddess so she can save them.
Well they end up freeing the goddess who then proceedes to do f*ck all and dissappears. Everyone i know who watched that movie thought that it was redundant.
Thats what i got when playing out this scenario.

The Twelve are impotent, if your gonna introduce dieties into your game, at least make them worthy.

From the forums, it looks like Thancred's a good contender for worship instead!

Personally, I was hoping for Siren as my goddess.

But yeah, the Twelve seem like pretenders to the primals, who may be a better vehicle for faith in the face of the Garlean invasion.

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Originally Posted by hrdndv

First, I don't see Bahaumet as really being all that powerful.

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You're absolutely sure about that? We can quote you on that, yes? Nevermind, we already did... and there are a host of Sensei Louisoix's students that would now like to have a word with you...

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Originally Posted by hrdndv

What I saw was Bahaumet escaping from Dalmud where he was chained and forced to provide power to Dalmud. The attempt to capture Bahaumet failed because it had not completed. That sealing was not being done by the Twelve. It was being done by Luisouix (sp?).

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Ummm no... first he wasn't providing power to Dalamud (which is the name of his "cell"), it was actually the other way round. He was absorbing power (Aether) from Eorzea and possibly the rest of Hydaelyn...which is part of the reason why he was initially cast far beyond reach into orbit.

Obviously you have no idea who the Allagans were, so I won't waste time explaining the lore...

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Originally Posted by hrdndv

As I see it, the Twelve are in separate realities from Eorzea and don't pay much attention to what they consider trivial problems. Just because we don't think they should have let the Era end, doesn't mean our viewpoint means much. SOOOO... Events do not reflect on whether or not the Divines might still provide Divine blessings and aid.

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So allow me to re-iterate your thinking here... you mean those of us that did the Living On A Prayer quest just ran around for nothing? Really? And all our prayers to them during the final event battles in town and the subsequent assistance they gave us was just a fluke? Seriously?

The Twelve are not a pantheon of Greek or Roman gods/goddesses from your mythology class who generally "don't pay much attention to what they consider trivial problems"... again, I can see that your knowledge of Eorzea is minimal so perhaps you were not aware that the main reason the Twelve cannot manifest themselves is that their presence will destroy the planet.

They cannot directly come to our rescue because their sudden appearance will heavily absorb the aether of the planet, which is already at low levels... and we need to help them replenish this. Which is where the adventurer comes in.

Remember: Believe in nothing means you fear nothing... fear nothing means you love nothing... love nothing means you fall for anything.

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So allow me to re-iterate your thinking here... you mean those of us that did the Living On A Prayer quest just ran around for nothing? Really? And all our prayers to them during the final event battles in town and the subsequent assistance they gave us was just a fluke? Seriously?

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The stone carvings we prayed to were made by Louisoix and company and they are based upon Allagan Tomestones which show similar carvings. As for "why" the Twelve wouldn't help us? There's no reason to. Lore wise the Twelve lived in Eorzea before the migration of the races, they welcome the earliest races (my speculation are they were either or both Elezen or Hellsguard Roegydan -- because we have actual timelines for when Lalafell, Hyur, and Miqo'te appear in Eorzea, Hyur being the youngest race in Eorzea) and the lands prospered, it was the Time of the Twelve. But soon war began, human nature, and it's said the Twelve left which ushered in the First Astral Era.

Removing the Twelve from the story would ruin the Lore. Whether they exist or not, they exist in the Lore and timelines. The Allagans had similar symbols of the Twelve on their Tomestones so there's more to story that we haven't seen.

If anything why would the Twelve help the citizens of Eorzea? In the eyes of the Twelve, Bahamut is probably no more a danger than the 5-Races or the Garleans. Them leaving the first time shows that they may have shunned it all.

But yeah, hopefully they do a better job of expressing the Lore and putting it out there in 2.0 and people like me don't have to explain it all lol

We will find out more about why our prayers didn't reach the Twelve by progressing
through the Great Labyrinth of Bahamut.
-Yoshida on Live Letter IV [0:11]

Many other things will be revealed there too!

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Originally Posted by SidRheingold

We will find out more about why our prayers didn't reach the Twelve by progressing
through the Great Labyrinth of Bahamut.
-Yoshida on Live Letter IV [0:11]

Many other things will be revealed there too!

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Sad that key lore points are only available to the hardcore raiders who will venture into such places.

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Sad that key lore points are only available to the hardcore raiders who will venture into such places.

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Fear not! The LOREMONGER will be there to fill you in on any lore you can't access directly in the game due to your personal time constraints! (I presume...)

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Sad that key lore points are only available to the hardcore raiders who will venture into such places.

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I'd bet that you too will come across these areas one day!

:cool:

I imagine that Aether isn't lost. Bahamut was fed with way too much Aether and that's what made him so strong. When he was released and he used his attacks all that aether was set free and the land consumed it over time and recovered quickly.

Just my guess on why Eorzea recovered that quickly :3

As for the twelve.. meh. Can't really bond to them. I would rather have a real Primal (Siren :P) than twelve symbols.

Maybe the twelve are (little) eikons :)

Siren can be one of them.