ffxi-2? Well, maybe... but WHICH ffxi?

This is neither an endorsement nor an attack on the idea of FFXIV taking the route paved by FFXI. That's another complex issue which deserves to be debated; there's a juicy thread, active right now, about that topic.

However I think it's important to clarify one point in the discussion. When most people wax nostalgic about the earlier game, they (we) are usually focusing their memories on the admittedly clunky, yet deep and rewarding game we all played before the word Abyssea was ever pronounced in it. We're referring to the rich game mechanics that supported a complex and varied Skill Chain system, which generated party play that could last for hours, with clockwork team interaction being always pushed off-kilter by links, differences in mob strength and sheer human fallibility. We probably are thinking of the slow-paced, half-mental, half adrenaline-rushed race to cap, the perpetual frustrations thrown your way by Matt & Co., the arcane and semi-buried stat interactions that stimulated theory-crafting and more fan sites that memory can recall now... Admittedly, it was a tough world, but it was one that made acquaintance flourish into friendship with surprising speed.

This wants to be a reminder to the community that posts in this forums to start qualifying their nostalgic calls with the PRE-ABYSSEA adjective... I rushed to post this, after I read part of that thread I referenced above, and therefore didn't do my homework: If I could mention the development team (other than Tanaka) responsible for most of that, I would do it. Acknowledgedly, there were epic fails in their work: The already mentioned hyper-clunky interface, most dismally exemplified by the chocobo-raising experience, but not only; the failure to unite and integrate (until Level Synch) high-level players with the newbies (the Mentor feature was one rather pallid and unsuccessful attempt; ) and finally and especially, the lack of some connective tissue to give better context and sense of purpose to what was, ostensibly, the most epic grindfest this side of Lineage I.

One common and wrongful assumption--to this day--is the belief that FFXI was a game that appealed exclusively to FF fans. I, and a large chunk of my in-game acquaintances over the years came to it from the MMO side of the gaming world and are proof of said assumption's falsehood. We never played a FF game before XI and many of us still haven't. We stayed, despite the evident lack of streamlining and user-friendliness, despite the grueling collection of frustration sadistically thrown into our plates, and despite the hermetic devs and their frequent wrongheadedness. We stayed, in sum, because someone, or something, had managed to invest the game with an amazing sense of locale, mystery, poetry, danger, and--last but not least--a deep and rich array of game mechanics that we loved to turn our heads against. These were the facts, good and bad, that made FFXI the best kept secret of the MMO industry for years.

The game was repeatedly ignored by the media, despite its ranking, for years, as the second most stable virtual-world population in the planet, and as the undisputed pioneer in many areas like cross-platform availability, class (job) design, and character flexibility (the abilities to level all classes and equip subjobs,) to say nothing of the invention of the Auction House system, and the presence of the most charming transport ever to grace an MMO: The chocobo.

Now, let's make clear THAT is the model we refer to when we dream of aspects of XI as models for future FFXIV develpment, not the watered-down version of itself that it became after the level-cap was taken beyond 75.

Just saying,

C

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Originally Posted by Randis

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You're eating too much popcorn, Randis xD

love popcorn... salty, also bbq flavor... not in favor of sweet popcorn.

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Originally Posted by Randis

love popcorn... salty, also bbq flavor... not in favor of sweet popcorn.

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I too love pocorn, but I'm a sweet guy, so sweet popcorn for me :D

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Originally Posted by Renshi

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you will get dry lips if you do that.

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Just ignore the scanner there and I think you get the point.

I want FFXIV to be the (spirtual) sequel to Chains of Promathia. ToAU ruined the game for me as a BLM. I want an epic story with boss fights that require strategic tactics, memorable NPCs like Tenzen and Prishe, and a reward as awesome as being able to access zones like Al'taieu. Too bad S-E seems stuck on easy mode these days.

I agree strongly that there is a distinction between the concepts that made up FFXI pre-Abys and post-Abys. I personally prefer pre-Abys FFXI.

Along that vein I'd like to see things like Mr. Quantum just mentioned. Prishe and Tenzen were some of my favorite characters. I was honestly sad when I finished CoP going back to Tavnazia Safehold remembering all the crazy cutscenes and the like.

It's important to understand the topic the OP brings up because it NULLIFIES the sheeple manta "Hurpdurp u like XI then go play XI durpyhurp"

The game we loved no longer exists.

We need something new.

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Originally Posted by quantumsaint

I want FFXIV to be the (spirtual) sequel to Chains of Promathia. ToAU ruined the game for me as a BLM.

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Should've mentioned this bit among the wrongheaded things I referred to. Apologies to BLMs all. My main was a RDM and we did quite well in Aht Urhgan. [/grin] I very much agree that CoP was a particular high point.

C

It may nullify "If you loved XI so much then go play it" argument but it does not nullify the "If you don't like XIV at all and have no hope for it, why are you still here?" argument.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

It may nullify "If you loved XI so much then go play it" argument but it does not nullify the "If you don't like XIV at all and have no hope for it, why are you still here?" argument.

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I agree with this statement. However, I believe you'd be hard pressed to find someone with no hope for this game at all.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

It may nullify "If you loved XI so much then go play it" argument but it does not nullify the "If you don't like XIV at all and have no hope for it, why are you still here?" argument.

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I hope this is a general statement and not one induced by my lack of clarity. I never meant to express (nor do I think I expressed) the points I understand your post to ascribe to my position. I Like XIV and have utmost hope for it. It's that hope that motivates my posting here.

:-)

R

No, I was just saying in general that yes you're right and I agree that the old FFXI is gone but there are still a lot of people around here who just hate XIV and stick around to troll.

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Originally Posted by Rutelor

Now, let's make clear THAT is the model we refer to when we dream of aspects of XI as models for future FFXIV develpment, not the watered-down version of itself that it became after the level-cap was taken beyond 75.

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Well said, I agree completely.


I'll start by saying I would not have minded playing a FFXI-2, although I think my idea of FFXI-2 may be different than some peoples. What I was hoping for from FFXIV was for SE to take the parts of FFXI that worked well and improve upon them, and to take the parts that did not work and overhaul or remove them. Doing this along with the fancy new graphics and new storyline would have made one hell of a game I think.

What we got instead was a game that was different just for the sake of being different. I like the fact that SE was trying to be innovative with FFXIV, and I believe there is still room in FFXIV for original ideas. But they should have gotten the hint that many of the "innovations" they came up were not going to work and/or needed major changes to work when the alpha and beta testers repeatedly told them the core of the game was basically broken.

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Originally Posted by Rutelor

This is neither an endorsement nor an attack on the idea of FFXIV taking the route paved by FFXI. That's another complex issue which deserves to be debated; there's a juicy thread, active right now, about that topic.

However I think it's important to clarify one point in the discussion. When most people wax nostalgic about the earlier game, they (we) are usually focusing their memories on the admittedly clunky, yet deep and rewarding game we all played before the word Abyssea was ever pronounced in it. We're referring to the rich game mechanics that supported a complex and varied Skill Chain system, which generated party play that could last for hours, with clockwork team interaction being always pushed off-kilter by links, differences in mob strength and sheer human fallibility. We probably are thinking of the slow-paced, half-mental, half adrenaline-rushed race to cap, the perpetual frustrations thrown your way by Matt & Co., the arcane and semi-buried stat interactions that stimulated theory-crafting and more fan sites that memory can recall now... Admittedly, it was a tough world, but it was one that made acquaintance flourish into friendship with surprising speed.

This wants to be a reminder to the community that posts in this forums to start qualifying their nostalgic calls with the PRE-ABYSSEA adjective... I rushed to post this, after I read part of that thread I referenced above, and therefore didn't do my homework: If I could mention the development team (other than Tanaka) responsible for most of that, I would do it. Acknowledgedly, there were epic fails in their work: The already mentioned hyper-clunky interface, most dismally exemplified by the chocobo-raising experience, but not only; the failure to unite and integrate (until Level Synch) high-level players with the newbies (the Mentor feature was one rather pallid and unsuccessful attempt; ) and finally and especially, the lack of some connective tissue to give better context and sense of purpose to what was, ostensibly, the most epic grindfest this side of Lineage I.

Now, let's make clear THAT is the model we refer to when we dream of aspects of XI as models for future FFXIV develpment, not the watered-down version of itself that it became after the level-cap was taken beyond 75.

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Agreed (mostly), I don't like Abyssea overall. In fact, its keeping me from resubscribing. However, there were other really good changes that happened with the new development team since the level cap increase. Oh, and the magian trials are way out of hand.

This is a good distinction to make though.

This is what I forgot about. Most of the FF fans outside of Japan did not pick up FF11. [Insert side topic here.]

Hope... Time...

I wonder what will happen to Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by Steggun

What I was hoping for from FFXIV was for SE to take the parts of FFXI that worked well and improve upon them, and to take the parts that did not work and overhaul or remove them. Doing this along with the fancy new graphics and new storyline would have made one hell of a game I think.

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That's what we, FFXI players, all wanted to see. It was also the most logical choice to make for a game company with an old, but successful mmorpg on their hands.

That said, i agree with the OP completely, but it is painfully obvious that many people would probably log off and never return to these forums again if the dev team said "we are turning this game into a direct FFXI:COP successor."
Perhaps we should make a poll to see the percentage... but there is probably one already.

In any case transforming 14 into a perfect 11-2 is in my opinion practically impossible at this point, so we just have to wait and see what comes out of this. It just saddens me to think that "our" FFXI is gone forever.

IF they are going to copy ffxi the need to copy pre-abysea.

Abysea is a great event but how they implemented it is just pure garbage, honestly ruined 4 expansions and 3 addons worth of previous development the game had. took it from a challenging, rewarding game and turned it into the easiest mmo on the market. Basically killed the game more of less.

IF they make the game in abysea's image I would not stay here very much longer.

when cop hit ppl slowly stop buying ffxi. new players were the decline and stoped join after. I played on just about every server. and most towns had no one in the minus a few bazaars. AH's started to empty eyc.

I don;'t want another ffxi. I want something better so we will always have new ppl joining sure the game lasted 8+ years, but also game pop was pretty small.
then ppl started to leave more and no new players are joining. Abyssea though isn;t that bad. And ppl only get leechers since opening chests while fighting 3+ mobs isn't easy. And lights are needed so we can stay in abyssea. Its story line is pretty cool also.

Oh and the reason for thwe so called easy mode (not really but w/e ppl don;lt eaven know wat easy mode is) is ffxi is bleeding members not that fast buit parties are pretty much non existanct. Not because og abyssea but due to no more low level players/ jobs no one is joining ffxi.

They're not going to copy pre-abbysea, they'll copy post abbysea if anything.


edit: kind of like when mythic promised that land of the dead wouldnt be warhammer online's version of trials of atlantis (It was. Gear wise anyway, which was the main concern.)