[dev 1036] fix the console-style Action Bars...

why we have this kind of action bar?

why we can't customize anything about it except moving it?


- they don't display all skills on the screen

- we can't click on the bar to use the skill (if you have a lot of skills and use more than one row action bar you'll understand my problem)

- pressing Up and Down to scroll between each row.... so horrible (same, if you using more than one row you'll understand) and after the new target mode it became worse with Up and Down button using for swap the target types

- we don't have an option to disable the "auto-hide" action bar, what's wrong if I want it to show all the time (and possible to click on the skill to use it)?


should be better if we have an option to change it, for the best for both players who using mouse+keyboard and who using controllers

while I don't agree in the usual use of hyperbolic definitions, I agree that the action bar needs work, especially the ability to extend/collapse it in order to have quite a lot more abilities on the same bar (I would say 20) and the ability to display all 3 at the same time.

I would say that the rest isn't "necessary" (still it'd be good to have), but the inability to display more than 10 abilities on screen at the same time is quite inconvenient, and that's what I would adress first and foremost.

Personally, as a tank, I use two action bars and a half, with all the abilities used at least once every two-three fights, and half of them used every fight, and it's quite unconfortable to have to swap bars in between abilities.
Considering that holding aggro firmly is actually challenging in this game against good damagers/healers (something that I consider VERY positive, mind you, so please keep it like that), having to swap bars in between abilities makes the less twitchy tanks waste precious seconds that might cause in an unwarranted aggro loss. Not to mention the fact that not havng all cooldowns under costant watch isn't user-friendly.

Besides, more accessible abilities on the bar will go well with the additio of auto attack, since hopefully abilities (even less indispensible ones) will become more used. I'm actually amazed when I see many other tanks using only 2-3 abilities during fights (call it professional instinct, i always observe "colleagues" closely), not even bothering to raise their shields, and then losing aggro or dieing costantly.

I'm ok for the guys using keyboards, but then you all turn into clickers. Do you remember ctrl and alt toggle macros right ? You should map your entire keyboard like this (if they release customizable hotkeys).

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

I'm ok for the guys using keyboards, but then you all turn into clickers. Do you remember ctrl and alt toggle macros right ? You should map your entire keyboard like this (if they release customizable hotkeys).

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Macros don't display cooldowns and aren't costantly displayed on screen. It's a placebo, Not a solution. Most modern MMORPGs have collapsible/extensible bars, and good players just place the most used abilities on the 1-10 slot and click on the rest that are used less often.

besides, there's absolutely nothing wrong in "Turning into clickers" kif someone feels like it. Players should be able to use the control scheme they feel more natural and intuitive,without falling prey of silly elitist labeling.

That's not my point <_< as you can do what you say, a lot would use only the keyboard, then what you do ?You can't have a standard gui working only for you.
For the macros, i'm speaking the fact you can't hotlink nothing with that keys, so you can use only numbers

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

That's not my point <_< as you can do what you say, a lot would use only the keyboard, then what you do ?You can't have a standard gui working only for you.
For the macros, i'm speaking the fact you can't hotlink nothing with that keys, so you can use only numbers

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Extensible macros would help joypad users as well, removing the need to swap between bars. (I use joypad and keyboard indifferently or even in combination, depending on the situation).
If you use only the keyboard, it's your choice, but since the mouse exists, and it's a useful tool, it's nonsensical to artificially limit the action bar because the ones using the mouse too would have an advantage. Extensible bars and multiple bars display is a standard in nowadays' MORPG.

if a player want to guse ONLY the keyboard he can still not use the extensible part of an extensible bar. He's not forced to.

By your logic, we should completely remove number hotlinking on the current bars and force keyboard users to select abilities with the arrow keys because joypad-only users have to select them like that, so everyone should be limited in the same way.

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By your logic, we should completely remove number hotlinking on the current bars and force keyboard users to select abilities with the arrow keys because joypad-only users have to select them like that, so everyone should be limited in the same way.

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Lolno

To keep it clear, i'm ok with extensible macro and bars, but then you need customizable hotkeys. Like that both joypad, clickers and keyboards have their fair share of gui.
Obliusly that means one can choose their layout

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

To keep it clear, i'm ok with extensible macro and bars, but then you need customizable hotkeys. Like that both joypad, clickers and keyboards have their fair share of gui.
Obliusly that means one can choose their layout

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I'm perfectly ok with that. I don't see it as a priority though, as most other MMORPGs work well without that.

As long as they don't hold back the most indispensible parts (extensible bars, multiple bars on screen, fixed non-disappearing bars), to add everything at once, then they can build over the system as much as they like. First things first, though.

I didn't want it turn into keyboard+mouse style. just make it selectable....

I use a gamepad and use all 3 action bars fairly equally. I agree that it would be nice to have all 3 bars shown as it often takes me about 500ms longer to find the skill I want to use if I can't remember what action bar I had showing (e.g. When the action bar gets hidden when a mole goes underground and I need to find featherfoot quickly). The 500ms can be the difference between taking a lot of damage and taking no damage.

The bar hiding thing can get annoying too, although it is useful to be able to see when you're able to scroll through targets instead of scrolling through skills. Perhaps a nice solution to this would be to hide the action bar only while in passive mode. When in active mode have the action bar always showing, but have it greyed out when in targetting mode (ie. when the bar is hidden at the moment). Action bar would be reactivated upon selecting a target (or using a skill on the highlighted target for clickers). so, fairly similar to how it is now but with keeping the utility of the skill bar hiding.

I like the action bar as it is. :3 Very similar to FFXIs macros. Would only like to be able to scroll through it faster. I like that it doesn't stay on my screen, because I hate having many things cluttering it up.

anychance anyone else figured that with battle changes the UI will get changed to... or no one else put 2 and 2 together. Since attacks are on the action bar, once Auto attack gets put in it might change. I don;t see how they can keep the same action bar after Auto attack is added.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

anychance anyone else figured that with battle changes the UI will get changed to... or no one else put 2 and 2 together. Since attacks are on the action bar, once Auto attack gets put in it might change. I don;t see how they can keep the same action bar after Auto attack is added.

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I think they could use the same action bar for the new battle system changes, and I also think that once auto-attack is implemented, a lot of these action bar problems will go away. Since we won't have to spam 1 anymore to attack, it will give us more time to find and select the action we are preparing to use. I do agree that there should be plenty of UI options in this game though. It doesn't have to be black or white. Give us options so that all the players can make their own decisions on how they want their UI handled. Showing all three action bars would be great. I definitely understand with the cooldown timer needing to be visible for all skills but whether the action bar is always showing or not is definitely a cosmetic choice that is up to the player.

Everything Evangela said, especially her last two points is true. Hitting up and down causes all sorts of weirdness if you're not in the correct layer and you're toggling through friend/party/all. This is less true with the latest update providing an alternative for targeting. Then the issue of the action bar disappearing. I get Nabiri wanting it to go away to keep more of the screen open. But this is another issue that should have been toggable from the very beginning making everyone happy.

People like on/off switches. Think ahead SE.

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Originally Posted by Mega

People like on/off switches. Think ahead SE.

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So very true .I think everything UI wise should be customizable.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Considering that holding aggro firmly is actually challenging in this game against good damagers/healers .

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/laugh.

People like on/off switches. Think ahead SE.

to many can be over complicating and overwhelming and annoying.

so a few ppl like on/off switches. Also options take up space. And options can slowly take up too much room to add content.

not hating on the ideas Just trying to be a bit logical.
I'm curious on how this game will play on ps3 as is. isn't the action bar a bit.... hard to use with just a controler?

I don't think someone will get confuse... if they don't want to ON or OFF or config anything, then just play with the default settings

the way its set up now is actually very easy. If your a button smasher well then your going to have problems in any game.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

People like on/off switches. Think ahead SE.

to many can be over complicating and overwhelming and annoying.

so a few ppl like on/off switches. Also options take up space. And options can slowly take up too much room to add content.

not hating on the ideas Just trying to be a bit logical.
I'm curious on how this game will play on ps3 as is. isn't the action bar a bit.... hard to use with just a controler?

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If people were overwhelmed with the options, they don't have to mess with them. The game should be able to be played successfully without tweaking any of the options IMO. and I honestly don't think that adding on/off switches would be that hard to make or be too resource intensive. Correct me if I'm wrong. I know there would be a lot of options that I wouldn't change if I were given the choice but everyone has his/her own preferences, why not cater to something that is present in every human being.

Building tp and activating any weapon skill on the second/third bar is kind of a pain so i typically keep anything that needs to be quickly activated on the first bar and buffs on the second.