Is physical level a problem?

Is physical level a problem?

I think how it is currently implemented it is. Being able to freely distribute stats seems like a good idea but what damage is it doing. Say I level MRD, as a MRD I don't really have use for MND, INT and PIE so I put all my stats in STR, DEX and VIT. So compared to someone who spreads their points more evenly I should be more accurate and hit much harder making me much more effective than a MRD that spreads the points evenly. I could end up having an extra 50 STR over the MRD next to me of the same rank just on base stats. If stats were effective that +50 STR should mean I would hit a lot harder than them.

This why they have had to tone down how effective stats are but in doing so they have made gear and food a lot less effective too.

Then if I change to a mage my stats are rubbish because I have nothing in INT, MND, and PIE. So maybe if they introduced as system so you could assign stats to each class separately that would be the answer. Then however I would be back to the same situation as my MRD only putting points into stats needed for my Mage class.

I really think the current Physical Level system by allowing us to freely distribute points is not helping.

I would be more in favour of it being automated in the interest of balance. Maybe each class could have it's own automated stat system and then when you hit cap have a merit point system so you can add some more stats yourself to allow a little customisation. Not like it is now where we can have these huge differences in stats though, just make it so you could maybe add a total of 10% to your stats once fully merited.

This would help keep the balance and then allow stats and gear to be more effective again. Those +5 STR rings would matter again if the STR cap for stats was 100 as +5 STR would be an extra 5% STR, get 4 of them and it's an extra 20% over your base. As it is now though some people could have 150 STR base and the person next to them has 75 STR even though they are the same level, that is twice as much and is not balanced at all.

Anyway what are everyone else's thoughts on the Physical Level System, is it good as it is or is it not so good?

One of the main problems with it is that the Attribute points do not really take a noticeable effect on how much Damage your do or how much you resist physical or magic attacks. Of course you would be able to notice if its like a 30 point difference, but other than that, everything within a 15 point radius is really unnoticeable.

almost all of attributes have low effective at this moment

only your rank vs mob rank making the different, so I rather allotted my points to VIT & MIN for max HP/MP

this should be fix

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Originally Posted by Nuru

One of the main problems with it is that the Attribute points do not really take a noticeable effect on how much Damage your do or how much you resist physical or magic attacks. Of course you would be able to notice if its like a 30 point difference, but other than that, everything within a 15 point radius is really unnoticeable.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

almost all of attributes have low effective at this moment

only your rank vs mob rank making the different, so I rather allotted my points to VIT & MIN for max HP/MP

this should be fix

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This is my point though, SE have had to make stats less effective because people can freely distribute a huge amount of points with the current physical level system. If they made stats effective then people who distributed points purely for a certain setup ie a MRD putting everything in STR, DEX and some VIT would have a huge advantage over those that did it evenly.

but you can re-assign points quite easilly. so if you want to spent sometime playing different classs, feel free to reasign them.

I personaly love current system. i love fact that to increase atribut i dont need to wear certain armor/clothing, turning the game into clone war.

And with current sustem, if you want to be a spell-casting maruder, you can do it, just by reasigning poins, and puting some spells in skillbar.

The physical level system has it's ups and downs... but mostly downs.

It does give us the ability to customize our characters and balance our stats however we see fit. But the calculations behind stat points are mostly intangible.. When you gain a physical level and assign your points, you really aren't able to see the effect on your character.

Stat soft caps and whatnot make the whole system pretty wonky. When I gain a level and assign 10 vitality points, I want to be able to see an increase to my HP and defense.

If it were up to me I would do away with the physical level system and let people assign their stats on a per-class basis.

Mid Level...
FFXI: +1 points makes for a small difference.
FFXIV: +12 points makes for a small difference.

Veteran Level..
FFXI: +8 points makes for a big difference.
FFXIV: +96 points makes for a big difference.

It is all relative.

Honestly, I see nothing wrong with having physical level, I just think they made it way too fast to advance. There's 14 or so classes in the game, each with their own independent rank/skill points. Just getting one of them up to rank 50 puts your physical level pretty close to cap. It would've been more interesting if physical level took a loooong time to cap, thus making leveling other classes just as fulfilling.

Well, the point allotment stuff is a bit much also, making attribute bonuses from gear less rewarding.

Yeah, overall I like the physical level system, but some tweaking is needed to make stats more effective, because right now other than VIT increasing HP and INT increasing MP I don't see too much of a difference.

I also think the stat swap traits that can be purchased with guild marks should be reduced in price.

Does it really matter what system we have? In the end, there is going to be the 'end all, be all' builds, that, if you want to be accepted in end game, you will have to use. I suppose if you look at it in that sense the physical level system is actually better, because you can do minor tweaks to suite your linkshells needs.

that is for you to fight that it wont happen.

My dream solution : NO endgame. Just slow down and enjoy the low/middle tier content.

to me it is not the physical level that is the problem. it is the way it is the deciding factor of all classes. if i am physical 50 i have the same stat points on 1 that i do a 50 class. to me physical should have some bearing on the next class you work on but not everything.

to me there should be more balance between physical and class ranks to allow each class to have its own stats. that way physical levels would assist the next class, but not be 100% of the factor of how many points you have.

I agree they should do away with self allotment of points. It was a good idea in theory, however if doing so makes each stat much less effective than it would otherwise be then they should certainly make it a pre-set allotment with more even distribution. As it stands now the base stats don't have much of an effect on the character.

I've tried set ups with lots of STR and DEX and some with much less (around 40 less) and I noticed no difference in my damage or accuracy. STAT+ gear and food are also rather pointless with the exception of HP+, which makes crafts like Goldsmithing and Cooking rather worthless.

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

I agree they should do away with self allotment of points. It was a good idea in theory, however if doing so makes each stat much less effective than it would otherwise be then they should certainly make it a pre-set allotment with more even distribution. As it stands now the base stats don't have much of an effect on the character.

I've tried set ups with lots of STR and DEX and some with much less (around 40 less) and I noticed no difference in my damage or accuracy. STAT+ gear and food are also rather pointless with the exception of HP+, which makes crafts like Goldsmithing and Cooking rather worthless.

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No, no, no.


My big gripe with most MMOs is the atrociously small amount of customization they give you. Being able to assign stat points is one of the best part about character design in this game. The only thing that needs to be done is balancing the effectiveness of adding points to stats other than vit, and adding a once per week or so full stat reset. I would rather have a marginally less effective character of my own design than to have a preallocated set shoved down my throat in the name of balance.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

No, no, no.


My big gripe with most MMOs is the atrociously small amount of customization they give you. Being able to assign stat points is one of the best part about character design in this game. The only thing that needs to be done is balancing the effectiveness of adding points to stats other than vit, and adding a once per week or so full stat reset. I would rather have a marginally less effective character of my own design than to have a preallocated set shoved down my throat in the name of balance.

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But don't you see there is a reason other MMO's don't allow this, it is because it creates so much unbalance to the game play. You wonder why stats are not effective and that is exactly why they are not, it is because if they were then people could put so many points into only the stats they need for that class and it would make it everything unbalanced.

Yoshi P. said himself that they are looking to remove the Physical Level system as it is extremely difficult to balance.

The physical level and manual point assignment is a good idea, but it is hard to balance.

They either have to adjust the system and make the stats/points more effective in combination with a shorter cool down on resetting your points or they have to remove the whole system.

And that is the consequence of Min/Maxing.

I take a moderate approach at stats. I main a Conjurer, so I put most of my points in VIT and MND, less points in INT and PIE, and the least amount of points in STR and DEX. Basically I keep my STR and DEX at half the value of my VIT and MND, and my INT and PIE in between. This allows me to change stats fairly quickly if I decide to play a melee. But at the same time, I keep my primary stats high.

Also keep in mind that as you go higher in stats, the cost of increasing those stats has HUGE diminishing returns. This is ANOTHER discouragement towards Min/Maxing.

So do you get it yet? SE is discouraging Min/Maxing. Take the hint.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

But don't you see there is a reason other MMO's don't allow this, it is because it creates so much unbalance to the game play. You wonder why stats are not effective and that is exactly why they are not, it is because if they were then people could put so many points into only the stats they need for that class and it would make it everything unbalanced.

Yoshi P. said himself that they are looking to remove the Physical Level system as it is extremely difficult to balance.

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First off all, they're not all that unbalancing. A large number of of offline RPGs use such systems with little problem. Even if they cause some minor balance problem, honestly who cares? I'll take customizable and interesting over balanced any day. Besides, they can easily fix the problem you mentioned by giving multiple tiers of diminishing returns returns after a certain point (which they already do to an extent). No, it's not the same thing as preallocation - all it does is discourage trying to max out one stat.

I'm not sure why the prevailing attitude on this forum seems to be "I'm not happy with the way this system works, so instead of just fixing it, let's replace it with something completely different that I'm used to." I honestly wish they would quite trying to design the game according to popularity contests and instead properly design and playtest their systems and changes.

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Originally Posted by Galamantyl

Honestly, I see nothing wrong with having physical level, I just think they made it way too fast to advance. There's 14 or so classes in the game, each with their own independent rank/skill points. Just getting one of them up to rank 50 puts your physical level pretty close to cap. It would've been more interesting if physical level took a loooong time to cap, thus making leveling other classes just as fulfilling.

Well, the point allotment stuff is a bit much also, making attribute bonuses from gear less rewarding.

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I agree with this. And if you start with a new class, you'll get a huge amount of exp :S

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Yoshi P. said himself that they are looking to remove the Physical Level system as it is extremely difficult to balance.

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I don't recall that Yoshi P said anything quite like this in fact this is what I saw was this

"To be honest, I'm genuinely surprised by the response to Question 8, as are Matsui and Gondai on the battle team. We certainly didn't think that over 50% of players would be for doing away with physical levels."

This was in regards to the poll question that started out with

"The free distribution of attribute points has given rise to certain problems, however, such as compatibility issues with the Armoury system, and the lowered effectiveness of the attributes themselves. In particular, this lowered effectiveness of attributes also extends its influence to items, and is therefore something that we feel must be rectified."
all this tells me is that people can't figure out how to use the system to be most effective."

So basically what I as a player should realize is to not just throw everything into a few attributes because otherwise things like my armor and food are uneffective.
The system in and of itself is not unbalanced. People are unbalanced
if you as a player know how to use the system efficiently and effectively you will create balance
Also as some others have pointed out they did give you the ability to reallcate points so that you're not limited in any given class. I will say though last I tried you could only reallocate in increments and the time inbetween increments seemed to be little while. Long enough that switching from a "maxed out" DD to a "maxed out" Mage was not really viable.
On a side note I fully realize that regardless of my thoughts on the matter the system is going to change in one way or another. I personally hope they will stick with as much customization as possible.

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Originally Posted by Nikkita

So basically what I as a player should realize is to not just throw everything into a few attributes because otherwise things like my armor and food are uneffective.
The system in and of itself is not unbalanced. People are unbalanced
if you as a player know how to use the system efficiently and effectively you will create balance
Also as some others have pointed out they did give you the ability to reallcate points so that you're not limited in any given class. I will say though last I tried you could only reallocate in increments and the time inbetween increments seemed to be little while. Long enough that switching from a "maxed out" DD to a "maxed out" Mage was not really viable.
On a side note I fully realize that regardless of my thoughts on the matter the system is going to change in one way or another. I personally hope they will stick with as much customization as possible.

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Which should give people a clue that Min/Maxing was designed to not be effective. Everything they've done tells us that they are discouraging Min/Maxing, but people just either can't see or are unwilling to see that.

Personally I think it'd be easier for them to balance if the numbers werent so enormous and were broken down into bricks worth a certain amount of points each.

You forgot that you can purchase traits that convert an X number of one attribute to it's counterpart. as long as you are not min/maxing, then there is no real problem in regards to how the point allotment system works. If you are min/maxing however, then that is your choice, and you have no one to blame but yourself. I'm currently optimized towards phys. stats, but I have my magic stats high enough that I can swap attributes through the appropriate traits. As a result, my phys./mag. stats can be as high as low/mid 100's/mid 60's or mid 70's/ mid 80's, this is acceptable to me since I don't play magic jobs often, and it's enough at current caps to still be competent

I'm curiuos how SE is going to tweak this and or change it all together. I'm wondering if this will be changed when they add the new Attack system