5 Honest Questions for the FFXIV Player Base

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code?
3. Are you a major stock holder?
4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?

I can say "Yes" to only two of these questions.
What about you?

1. yeah, from being on the sidelines to personally knowing a dev or two.
2. God i hope so or we're going to be in serious trouble.
3. nope
4.yup
5. yup

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
--- I'm not a professional but I don't think these thing need to be a pro to understand it

2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code?
--- I don't know

3. Are you a major stock holder?
--- No

4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
--- Yes, but you shouldn't try to sell something when you still don't know how to stand

5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?
--- Yes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Macha

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code?
3. Are you a major stock holder?
4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?

I can say "Yes" to only two of these questions.
What about you?

---

1. I'm learning about child development cycles in psychology.
2. Yes.
3. Not for Square Enix.
4. Does this relate to my answer to #1? If so, yes, I understand it.
5. Yes.

1. I believe so.
2. Yes.
3. Nope.
4. Yes.
5. Yes.

Curious.. What is the point of this?

1. Yes. My study is related to developing software. So I know how it works. It is not as easy as some people happen to think. Especially in the current situation of FFXIV I only can imagine the mess. They are redesigning a big portion of the game. Since everything is related to each other I can understand why it takes so long. It is not like you change a few lines of code and patch the game to awesome mode.

2. No. I also think the code is one big mess. I base my opinion on the developers post about the ambient sound. The ambient sound is not coded separately, so at this moment there is no way to turn it off. Seriously, anyone with basic understanding of developing and modeling wouldn't make such a mistake. If they have to rewrite code for something simple as turning off the ambient sound I can only imagine how bad (and undocumented) the rest of the code is.

3) No. I think I miss the goal of this question, please explain :)

4) Yes, I do, but most people here obviously don't. They not only skip the standing part. They just want to start running from day 1, before they can walk (or even stand).

5. I might be stupid, but I do not get this question :P

1. Yes, and it is the reason why I don't want the devs to waste their time trying to scrap every current system in place and replace them... I just want improvements on what is already in play.

2. Not likely, or we would see more constant bug fixes.

3. no

4. yes

5. If you are talking about through the square enix support center, No i have not seen any of it, and I doubt anyone besides the Development team has...

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
Yes, admittedly I'm in IT for a Healthcare company that in house develops its own EMR to sell to hospitals and I support the actual devs hardware issues.

2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code? It should have, the documentation alone for the code in our system is compiled in major databases. And its no where near as advanced as XIV is.

3. Are you a major stock holder?
Yes, I own stock in various companies, Including SE.

4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
Yes.

5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?
Yes, But only because I've seen LS members and other players tell me what they have submitted directly to SE through the suggestion/support site links before the forums were even created.

Yes.
Yes/No -- Don't know for sure, but I do hope for them they got something.
lol.
yes.
No.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Macha

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
A: Yes
2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code?
A: Yes
3. Are you a major stock holder?
A: No
4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
A: Yes
5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?
A: No

---

Pretty straightforward questions. They deserved a straightforward answer. :D

This list isn't leading at all...

1. I understand some types of development cycle. I work as a software consultant/developer for a number of different companies/gov. agencies, generally going in at all points of the cycle to write specs, develop code, fix bugs or review implementations and architectures and make best practice recommendations or identify security flaws.
2. Meaningful to who? Personally I prefer working with {well written/structured/patterned} but undocumented code (with decent unit tests), over {badly written/badly structured/no cohesive design patterns} code with volumes of documentation but no test cases.
3. No.
4. No, never heard that expression, and it also makes no logical sense to me. (I have heard something similar about having to crawl before you can walk, and having to walk before you can run, but not the particular variation in OP)
5. No.

So I can answer with a straight yes to none of them. :)

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
A: Yes, having done study into game development in order to further my own personal interests.

2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code?
A: It would only make sense that a professional team would do such a thing.

3. Are you a major stock holder?
A: No, I work for a living trying to get by in a tough world.

4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
A: Sure do, and it's a good reminder to people that the basics are sometimes needed. It is the reason things are rewritten and rebuilt, as sometimes the foundation is not sound.

5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?
A: Yes many people share their feedback that they submit to SE. Our LS members have no qualms posting their personal feedback, or discussing it.

I'm curious as to where this survey is going.

1. As a software engineer, I like to thing I do lol
2. Although it does help, good programming should be clear without any documentation. But I think the devs at SE know how to comment the code and what it does. So, yes lol
3. No
4. I understand but I have no idea what you're relating that phrase to.
5. I do not understand this question either. XD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Macha

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code?
3. Are you a major stock holder?
4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?

I can say "Yes" to only two of these questions.
What about you?

---

1; yes, i do. i am a programmer.

2; yes they did. it is normal, and expected, that a real studio enforces programming styles so that every coder in the team can easily read the code from amongst eachother. their documentation is included within the code itself in the form of comments.

3; no, i am poor.

4; yes. i also understand the phrase, "if it ain't broken don't fix it.." hehe...

5; don't understand. what feedback and to where or which other forums?...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Macha

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code?
3. Are you a major stock holder?
4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?

I can say "Yes" to only two of these questions.
What about you?

---

1. I have seriously rudimentary knowledge of programming other than it takes awhile, so no to that.
2. As per the previous point, I have no idea and neither can anyone else for that matter.
3. No, and stockholders are the goddamn devil
4. Of course, however that hardly has anything to do with being a customer.
5. Yes, my LS used to discuss issues all the time.

What does any of this have to do with wanting more information of the state of things?

I thought the phrase was "crawl before you can walk" maybe not.

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
YES
2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code?
YES
3. Are you a major stock holder?
YES
4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
YES
5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?
YES



So i score 5 yes , do i win something ?

This all seems rather pointless to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Macha

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code?
3. Are you a major stock holder?
4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?

I can say "Yes" to only two of these questions.
What about you?

---

1. yes
2. yes I do belive they have but instead of put it out, they might save it to expansion just my opinion
3. no
4.I dont want to
5. I have make 2 suggess in the forum, and those point are sum from disscussion in the LS, 1 man opinion cannot conside as a serious feedback

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Macha

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code?
3. Are you a major stock holder?
4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?

I can say "Yes" to only two of these questions.
What about you?

---

Loaded questions, but I'll bite.

1. Yes.
2. No, and even if it was, the coding was outsourced to china, so I doubt anyone could understand their documentation unless they spoke Chinese.
3. No.
4. Pretend I don't and explain it to me. :)
5. I don't understand the question.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jibe

This all seems rather pointless to me.

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Think the point was to see how many people acutally know what all goes into programming for a game and whatnot and those that don't and complain about stuff being too slow/etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

Think the point was to see how many people acutally know what all goes into programming for a game and whatnot and those that don't and complain about stuff being too slow/etc.

---

If so, it sure wasn't worded very well.

1. I am in favor of a 4-phase development cycle beginning with inceptional design to transitional deployment.

2. I am in favor of Tanaka's efforts but nobody is perfect when it comes to documenting.

3. I am strongly against stockholders. They usually make poor decisions.

4. I am strongly against standing - I prefer sitting.

5. I am strongly against the feedback given during closed beta which were not on these forums.

asking these question to the FFXI-XIV fanbase... we're mostly mature gamers and a lot of us are professional/master in many kind of business

don't acts like we're WoWfans

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
-Yes
2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code?
-Yes
3. Are you a major stock holder?
-No.
4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
-Yes
5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?
-Yes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

Think the point was to see how many people acutally know what all goes into programming for a game and whatnot and those that don't and complain about stuff being too slow/etc.

---

I have a feeling that anyone who is a programmer, works with programmers, or is in a field relating to computers/IT/development/etc. is going to reply to this just to tip the scales, making it look like the majority of FFXIV's player base knows exactly what is going on inside of Square-Enix, which is most definitely not the case.

And it looks like it's already happening.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Macha

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code?
3. Are you a major stock holder?
4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?

I can say "Yes" to only two of these questions.
What about you?

---

1. Yes I am studying to become a developer myself.
2. I guess
3. No
4. Yes
5. Yes

So do I get a stuffed animal or some kinda prize?

I'm a programmer.

I can honestly say that corporate shareholders have it rough, I mean programmers are so expensive working for less-than-they're-worth pay, which is a big cut into their billions of dollars worth of dividends. After all, they can only spare maybe 5~10% at most of that to put back in as company investment, so they have to get the game up and running as soon as possible so they can make more money so they can continue to underpay their programmers.

Those poor shareholders... What will they do without their personal airplanes, luxury yachts, and million-dollar acreages?

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
Yes, but they should've had this game completely developed before even bothering to market it. I'm not talking things like chocobos/airships... I'm talking like having a finalized combat system and UI. To this day they're still fixing it, and they should've taken these suggestions during alpha/beta... not now.

2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code?
I kind of doubt it, but who knows.

3. Are you a major stock holder?
No.

4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
Yes, but that's no excuse for this abomination that was sold as a product....six months later it isn't much better either. lol

5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?
Uhm... The wording in this question is a little weird and I don't know how to answer. I've seen other people outside these forums complain about the game several times.

1. Do you understand the basics of any development cycle (How long it takes/How it works)?
I'd like to belive I do, I know the team knows what they are doing and I have faith in them
2. Do you think that the dev team, under Tanaka, included meaningful documentation in their code?
Yes
3. Are you a major stock holder?
I'm 20.. lol
4. Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "we have to stand before we can walk"?
Of course
5. Have you, personally, seen ANY of the feedback submitted other than your own that was not on the forums?
Feedback for the game? huh?

1. Yes.
2. No. I could say more, but I won't.
3. No.
4. Kiki said it best.
5. I'm willing to bet most of what is on the forums comprises most of what was submitted prior.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chrees

I have a feeling that anyone who is a programmer, works with programmers, or is in a field relating to computers/IT/development/etc. is going to reply to this just to tip the scales, making it look like the majority of FFXIV's player base knows exactly what is going on inside of Square-Enix, which is most definitely not the case.

And it looks like it's already happening.

---

Exactly. Understanding any old development cycle has no bearing on understanding every development cycle, or specifically development cycles within XI.

I may have be programming professionally for 7+ years (and hobby programmer since age 8) but know there are numerous methodologies, different team structures, different means of determining priority for work, different work ethics, and most importantly differing levels of complexity of projects.

There is simply no feasible way to assess the total volume and complexity in the XIV code, but it's probably fairly safe to say that given that there are (were?) at least 3 teams of programmers (1 for server, 2 for client), each new addition or fix would require a great deal of communication to implement. Not to mention that changes/fixes requiring any other assets (models, text, sound effects) will bring even more teams into the equation, and obviously when one programmer is waiting to hear back from another team on a query or for a change they require to finish something they are working on, they will work on something that they can do in the mean time.

So it is only natural that simple features/fixes will bubble up through to release first.

I don't pretend to understand the complexity of XIV, but I do know they did a very brave thing in implementing their own core engine and tool set. From a technical perspective I am far more impressed with what has been achieved so far in XIV than I am by some of the games build over the top of someone elses engine, however customised it may be (Rift=Gamebryo engine). And seeing the progress on XIV from first closed Alpha through to present gives me no reason to doubt the technical competence at SE.

Just for fun, Client/Server programmers at XIV release:

http://img141.imageshack.us/i/creditsq.png/

(If you've never watched the credit list, I suggest it. It's pretty impressive. )

I'm not a computer programmer, but I do know that another team with 5 years at their disposal could have developed a much more successful Final Fantasy MMORPG.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

I'm not a computer programmer, but I do know that another team with 5 years at their disposal could have developed a much more successful Final Fantasy MMORPG.

---

I certainly believe that you think you know that.

wait, could you repeat the question

1st no
2nd I dont know
3rd no
4th yes
5th yes

1. Yup. Done some work in the business.
2. I hope so, but really, it's mostly the same coders, just a reorganization.
3. Major? No. Some, yes.
4. Yeah... though it's sad that there are people who don't.
5. As in through the Support center? I have, but they were posted on a fansite's forums.

So at least three yes, and maybe 4.