I remember a thread that had a comment about NM's being way too easy for 15 people. Has anyone defeated Elder Mosshorn with 8 or fewer people, If so, video footage?
So... Who said NM's were too easy?
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03-29-2011, 10:58 PMReikaSo... Who said NM's were too easy?
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03-29-2011, 11:19 PMZenaku
There hard because that the only type of endgame we have at 50 but once we rise the cap or added more spell for rank 50 or when they add the new class system the NM are weak top of that they don't give jack there pointless stuff to make rank 50 have something to do.
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03-29-2011, 11:28 PMReika
Well I know they are hard. I am just remembering a thread that called people Zergers for going after NM's with 15 people.
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03-29-2011, 11:33 PMZenakuPlayers found it easy because of the FFXI version maybe also some NM you only need 6+ players you don't really need 15+ for all the NM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
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03-29-2011, 11:37 PMReika
Definantly not Elder Mosshorn :P. I saw a video of Goblin being soloed tho. That just means it needs to be fixed, not that its too easy. I havent fought Dodore yet. I hope that one isnt as easy as the goblin.
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03-29-2011, 11:50 PMAlcide
I've never killed Mosshorn coz of the ridiculous drop, but all of the others are pretty easy, for exemple my ls can take the Big Buffalo down in 7 minutes and Dodore in 3 BR once the minions are dead. But I wouldn't call it zerg, actually you need to be trained and to have a party that can cooperate well to achieve that and those fights are really fun, definitely better then doing them in 15 people doing random damage.
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03-29-2011, 11:52 PMZenakuThey are Called NM not HNM you need to remember this they don't need to be hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
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03-29-2011, 11:53 PMReikaHow did this turn into me demanding NM's to be hard ; ;.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenaku
and what is HNM? I am talking about FFXIV not XI here. -
03-29-2011, 11:56 PMArcellYeah because Ureaus skin is soooo useless. I mean who needs a Silver Tricorne anyway? :P It's not like it's one of the best hats in the game or anything....oh wait >.>Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenaku
In all seriousness though, they do drop items used to make some of the best gear in the game. Off the top of my head: Silver Tricorne, Barbarian's Bardiche, Champion's Lance and Dodore Doublet. -
03-30-2011, 01:17 AMRydin
They are early NM's....
2 glads, 2 thaum and 2 archers could take down mosshorn....
I'm surprised no one mentioned that they probably will drop the max party size to 8 very soon.... That will raise the difficulty a little bit....
We have done the buffalo with as low as 6, I know people who can't beat him with 9 or 10....
We have done 6 people on Uraeus, 3 on Dodore and my favorite Thaum on Karnak has solo'd the Goblin...
we duo'd the Goblin in about 18 minutes...
but yea, these are the starter NM's.... They are like the camp Black Brush of NM's...
How many NMs, HNMS, BCNMs, ZNMs did XI have? hundreds?? a few of them were soloable.... some were for lower classes....
These are just the first 5 and I think their difficulty is right on par.... Imagine it only gets harder from here??? -
03-30-2011, 01:27 AMReika
Hmm that is pretty bad. I should just get a small Dodore hunting group together and go murder it.... Tho I would probably get murdered anyways. Even of they drop the max party size, it wouldn't have an effect on most of them.
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03-30-2011, 01:39 AMArcell
Well when they drop the max party size they're also going to rebalance content to work better with that max party size. They're not just going to leave things as they are now lol. That doesn't necessarily mean it will be easier though, tailoring something to an 8 person party may actually make it harder but more challenging. At least at that point you won't be able to just throw more healers and DPS at it to take it down.
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03-30-2011, 01:53 AMKazimir
Elder Mosshorn is the only semi difficult fight. Dodore has been soloed by THM as has Haughtpox Bloatbelly. Both can also be duod and triod by other combinations of jobs. Uraeus can be killed with 4 people and the Great Buffalo can be done with 6.
The NM's in general are way too easy in this game. You bringing up Elder Mosshorn (doable with 6 people) doesn't change that fact.
Even the FFXI equivalents (Serket, Roc) were not nearly this easy when they first came out. Changing the max group sizes to 4 and 8 will likely mean future NM's will be even easier if this is what we get for 15 person groups. -
03-30-2011, 02:14 AMHonz
Pretty much everyone has said it NMs are really easy with the right people. Any tank with aoe threat abilities and emulate can handle dodore with only one healer. THMs do really well on NMs because a majority of their damaging abilities do not get scaled down like pure dmg spells and physical attacks do. NMs might have crazy high defense and magic defense but that doesn't stop dia, poison, or bio.
As far as mosshorn goes its all about the positioning if you have all the adds grouped up aoe will do the work for you and yes you can kill him with as few as 6 people. -
03-30-2011, 03:21 AMArcellWell again that's not necessarily true. When they resize the groups they can rebalance the content to actually be more challenging for just the 8 people. With 8 people you do have to consider the roles each person will be filling a bit more as you can't just throw more healers or DPS at a battle to win like you can with 15.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazimir
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03-30-2011, 04:42 AMKazimir
They could rebalance it, but think about the fact that the current NM's were made with a max 15 person group in mind. Knowing SE, they probably wouldn't think it makes much since for them to increase difficulty when they are decreasing max group size.
At the moment the difficulty of the NM's are good for the everyday player that doesn't know how to play the game as well. I've seen nearly full alliances wipe to Dodore. But for those that know what they are doing it's a cake walk doable with low numbers. I am hoping they improve on it but as it stands now there's nothing in this game that makes me think they will make things more challenging. We can for some reason solo 3-5 star leves when they were made for groups of 6-15 and we can do every NM with 4-6 people.
If anyone of importance is actually reading this I would like some sort of assurance that we will be getting more difficult content in the future because right now I'm not so sure we will, and I'm certainly not the only one concerned with this. -
03-30-2011, 05:09 AMArcell
Keep in mind that the current NMs were made by the old dev team whereas any new content as well as balancing is being done by the new team. From what I can tell Yoshida certainly wants things to be challenging, if the group size reduction wasn't evidence enough already.
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03-30-2011, 08:01 AMGriss
The shell i am in generally brings along the people who want to go untill we hit the party cap. twice a week we get together go kill nm's and have a good old time doing it.
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03-30-2011, 08:22 AMReikaAll they did was say they were going to drop the max party size, they didnt mention any type of NM balancing...Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcell
Thats what I'd like to see. Sure they are easy enough to be soloed and duo'd by the right people, but i prefer to roll with as many friends as possible :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Griss
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03-30-2011, 08:50 AMArcellSource: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...bbc24abc29469fQuote:
Further balancing adjustments are ongoing, and are being based on the new designs in place for a maximum party size of eight members, as well as the smaller four-member party, both of which I've added to our list of intended changes.
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03-30-2011, 09:35 AMReikaWell i dont see anything about NM adjustment..Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcell
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03-30-2011, 10:40 AMArcellFurther balancing adjustments based on max of 8 parties, that would logically include NMs. It's not said explicitly but it's implied.Quote:
Further balancing adjustments are ongoing, and are being based on the new designs in place for a maximum party size of eight members, as well as the smaller four-member party, both of which I've added to our list of intended changes.
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03-30-2011, 11:00 AMReika
Who knows :P hope it is part of it.
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03-30-2011, 11:41 PMScarface
These NMs are a joke, since January my LS and I have been killing all of them with 6-8 people.
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03-31-2011, 12:40 AMXenor
I want to see content that is designed for big parties but the game seems to be going in the other direction. If party cap is set at 8 what do you do if you're the 9th or 10th member wanting to come have fun? Sit and watch until someone has to leave? It's already like that with 15, it will be a lot worse with 8. Sure if you have 16 you can form two groups but that instantly doubles the competition. I don't mind competition but I don't want this game to turn into XI. They can add as many NMs as they like but certain NMs are always going to be way more competitive than others. Let's not have Dragon's Aery v2.
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03-31-2011, 02:58 AMScarfaceI would like to have a Dragon's Aery v2, just don't make the drop rate 1% so that we have to be there for years >.>Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenor
At least make a few NMs 24hr respawns, these joke "Roaming Monsters" are not even NMs, hence the lodestone post:
"Conversion of roaming monsters to notorious monsters" -
03-31-2011, 08:13 AMXenor
A roaming monster is a normal mob, like a marmot. SE plans to have such mobs turn into NMs like happened in XI. Leaping Lizzy type NMs.
The current NMs are a joke but the game does not need any 24 hour spawns. You will be there a very long time even if the drop rate is 100% if you're camping against half a dozen linkshells every night with half their LS wanting the drop. No thanks lol. I'll only accept 24 hour spawns if they drop second rate gear that is worse than anything that can be obtained in an instance.
Open world NMs are always going to require little skill because open world fights are limited in what can be done and anyone can go zerg, die, zerg, die until the mob dies. You can't do that in a timed instance because if you suck you won't even make it through to the mobs that drop the good loot or have the time to kill it if you do get through. You can also have more dynamic effects in your instance that just wouldn't work in open world. -
04-01-2011, 08:11 AMOJtheLIONKing
No matter what any dev does, short of making them unbeatable there will always be someone complaining that enemies or NMs or bosses are "too easy." Hell, even with that Pandemonium Warden fiasco in FFXI a few years back I saw people blaming the players, rather than the devs, for the fight taking 18 hours. It's good game design to make fights that are challenging for most players, but also feasible for most players to beat. This maximizes the content that's doable for the playerbase for the amount of manhours that go into making these NMs, which is something the dev team is in very short supply of right now.
tl:dr Dev team can't waste time making content for 5% of the playerbase like a lot of FFXI's endgame content, it needs to be accessible to more people. If they can make a hard mode or something for more drops in instanced content, then that'd work fine for everyone I think. -
04-01-2011, 09:15 AMGrendel
yea, as long as you have 2 healers mosshorn and all of his adds are solo-tankable by a decent gladiator. Just have the DD's take out the adds either one by one or AoE (wide volley on archer does a lot of damage to his adds). He's definitely killable with less than 8. You won't run out of time either because mosshorn himself is actually pretty squishy, especially with battle regimen.
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04-01-2011, 11:39 AMKazimirHow so? If they make NM's a challenge for a full group they would need plenty of skill. You can't zerg in this game either, once a mob is claimed there's no inviting outside people and with a proper weakness / raise timer you're not going to be able to just zombie it to death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenor
A lot more than 5% of the player base can beat most of FFXI's endgame content. It really is not that hard. It takes cooperation, strategy, and timing, something none of the current NM's really need to beat, and something all NM's should require. Of course, there are harder HNM/NM that takes such a cooperation that not everyone can beat, but that's needed for the more skilled players to not get bored.Quote:
Originally Posted by OJtheLIONKing
They can't make all NM's easy enough that everyone can do them. When you do that you get what we have now. A bunch of bored players and only a few that are okay with it. Minus the pop times and camping, FFXI actually did a really good job with its NM difficulty. I'm fine with some instanced content but I don't feel they should go the WoW route of having a normal and hard mode where the only big difference is drop rates. Perhaps if the hard-mode fight had it's own unique twists and the gear dropped was also unique with superior stats it would be fine with me. Just my opinion though, of course.