What's going on?! (returning player)

Just bought the Dawntrail expansion yesterday and finished off Endwalker and I've just beaten the first trial in the expansion and...

...can i just ask, what the hell is going on?! The dungeon bosses halfway through Endwalker and so far in Dawntrail are all over the place. I have no idea what's going on half the time. There's pointers everywhere, split second reaction aoes, explosions, target lines, off screen attacks, and more!

Luckily, I'm a tank so i can survive a few of these but i'll be damned if i know what's going on lol.

Anywayz, just wanted to get that off my chest :D Back to the game!

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Originally Posted by SgtLunatics

There's pointers everywhere, split second reaction aoes, explosions, target lines, off screen attacks, and more!

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I can assure you that there are no real split second reaction aoes, only visual cues you didn't see. If you do end up dead, feel free to ask what you missed, people are generally helpful.

Yeah I know I'm exaggerating but damn the amount you gotta keep tabs on is nuts. I'm sure i'll get used to it though, as a returning player i'm still trying to get my muscle memory back as i keep pressing the wrong buttons. At the moment, between that and everything going on on-screen, it's overwhelming :o

Sadly the roulettes format rarely give anything higher than lvl 70 in anything, the current ftp tier. So people dont get to practice current content or their jobs at current levels.

In DT, they designed the duties to be very savage esque to try to build people up toward savage and get them interested. It was a failure though as people just hated the new battle content design and some boss mechanics were nerfed down. Not all though. You can also see this later in the raids. They drip release the raids and well... people hated the first one designed to promote savage, then after, all of those after the first are easier and not so savage esque. Maybe even too easy.

This approach failed so in Evercold theyre instead doing a new extreme tier difficulty below savage. If that fails Im pretty sure they will cut the production of savage content down to do other things. When it hurts the wallet the shareholders speak up, and low participation numbers look bad. They dont listen to the players but when the shareholders start asking questions they have to change.

That's sorta the current civil war now that the prior one which must not be spoken of has quieted down.

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

Sadly the roulettes format rarely give anything higher than lvl 70 in anything, the current ftp tier. So people dont get to practice current content or their jobs at current levels.

In DT, they designed the duties to be very savage esque to try to build people up toward savage and get them interested. It was a failure though as people just hated the new battle content design and some boss mechanics were nerfed down. Not all though. You can also see this later in the raids. They drip release the raids and well... people hated the first one designed to promote savage, then after, all of those after the first are easier and not so savage esque. Maybe even too easy.

This approach failed so in Evercold theyre instead doing a new extreme tier difficulty below savage. If that fails Im pretty sure they will cut the production of savage content down to do other things. When it hurts the wallet the shareholders speak up, and low participation numbers look bad. They dont listen to the players but when the shareholders start asking questions they have to change.

That's sorta the current civil war now that the prior one which must not be spoken of has quieted down.

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Ahh, Okay. I was wondering what happened because I don't remember the past expansions being so sweaty xD

Yeah Endwalker isnt too bad, it at least stays interesting on return visits to the battle content.

Dawntrail will seem like it literally dropped you straight into a savage raid that expects you to have studied the wiki and watched a guide video.
The playerbase fell off a cliff. Constant decline since DT released, sitting now around stormblood numbers.

Endwalker is a close second favorite to ShB though. Hope ya enjoy.

In my opinion, and oversimplified on a 1-10 scale, savage is a 7 while ARR-ShB dungeons are a 3. Some of the newer dungeons are a 4, and that is significant. They are harder.

This game used to have two big problems. One, casual content was too easy and mindless for anyone who was merely average at the game. And two, the gap between the normal dungeons and raids, and savage, was so wide that the former doesn't prepare you for the latter.

This game still has both problems. But I respect the developers for trying. Their attitude of "this is the fifth expansion, please get better at reading the orange" was a good take.

You'll improve. Also if you think something has split-second reaction time, then you missed a tell. Some orange hurtboxes only exist to show you where the damage was so you can learn it and avoid it next time. And some exist for only a second so you can make a small adjustment if you're close. You're supposed to have mostly dodged the attack before the orange appears in that case too.

Endwalker dungeons and the bosses are really easy though. So easy that Yoshi says he almost fell asleep playing it.

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Originally Posted by Catastrophe573

In my opinion, and oversimplified on a 1-10 scale, savage is a 7 while ARR-ShB dungeons are a 3. Some of the newer dungeons are a 4, and that is significant. They are harder.

This game used to have two big problems. One, casual content was too easy and mindless for anyone who was merely average at the game. And two, the gap between the normal dungeons and raids, and savage, was so wide that the former doesn't prepare you for the latter.

This game still has both problems. But I respect the developers for trying. Their attitude of "this is the fifth expansion, please get better at reading the orange" was a good take.

You'll improve. Also if you think something has split-second reaction time, then you missed a tell. Some orange hurtboxes only exist to show you where the damage was so you can learn it and avoid it next time. And some exist for only a second so you can make a small adjustment if you're close. You're supposed to have mostly dodged the attack before the orange appears in that case too.

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Yeah no doubt i'm going to miss a lot during my first run through each of these dungeons/trials and as you said, with practice i'll get it, and i did. I died a few times and worked out what to do and when and progressed from there.

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Originally Posted by JerryBerrry

Endwalker dungeons and the bosses are really easy though. So easy that Yoshi says he almost fell asleep playing it.

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Well post-endwalker and onward felt like a change. Anyway, I just finished beating some crazy trial, i forget the name but it was an absolute mess of a fight and it just dragged lol. I think i'm nearing the end of DT and then I just need to tackle the post-DT patch quests and i'm up-to-date :D

Dont do occult crescent btw. The new field operation. Its baaaad... expect to floor tank. Literally. Not even exaggerating you will be dead 80% of the time in the instances.

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

Dont do occult crescent btw. The new field operation. Its baaaad... expect to floor tank. Literally. Not even exaggerating you will be dead 80% of the time in the instances.

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I have no idea what a field operation is. I'll have to look that up at some point.

If this a real post then I found that I watched a dungeon guide for DT after my 1st time running them and it helped me alot. Also, after a few months OP it will be much easier since we do the same DT dungeons ALOT like by then it'll be more tedious than a struggle for me now.

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Originally Posted by CCheshire

If this a real post then I found that I watched a dungeon guide for DT after my 1st time running them and it helped me alot. Also, after a few months OP it will be much easier since we do the same DT dungeons ALOT like by then it'll be more tedious than a struggle for me now.

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Yeah, i guess the combination of returning to the game after a few years, trying to get used to it, remapping skills (because some have just vanished lol) and learning the fights makes it seem a lot harder than it probably is. Anyway, just looked up the MSQ and i'm 7 away until i've finished DT and then can start post DT quests.

Short answer is they listened to the loud sweatlord types and cranked up the difficulty and LIKE EVERY OTHER TIME IN EVERY OTHER MMO IN EXISTENCE it blew up in their faces.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/fyjbwz6dW...montenegro.gif

Not really. Seems that the results were good enough that they kept on moving in that direction.

the people saying dungeons were "savage-esque" have clearly never stepped foot in savage. the reality is people got by for so long just mashing their faces on the buttons and winning that when dt initially asked for even the smallest crumb of actual effort and learning these people freaked out.

now dungeons have gone from "very easy" back to "super extra easy impossible to fail" all because people didn't want to learn how to actually play

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Originally Posted by Ultran

Not really. Seems that the results were good enough that they kept on moving in that direction.

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Nnnnnnnnope. The normal raids got easier as they released due to feedback. The earliest ones are the hardest and least clear, most savage-esque.
The alliance raids got easier as they released too, people even say windurst is too easy.

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Originally Posted by Ultran

Not really. Seems that the results were good enough that they kept on moving in that direction.

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Yeah I know people who have that as their primary concern about Evercold, that they're "dumbing down" classes to focus on the DT levels of difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Flowerscody2

the people saying dungeons were "savage-esque" have clearly never stepped foot in savage. the reality is people got by for so long just mashing their faces on the buttons and winning that when dt initially asked for even the smallest crumb of actual effort and learning these people freaked out.

now dungeons have gone from "very easy" back to "super extra easy impossible to fail" all because people didn't want to learn how to actually play

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I know its the forums where everyone thats posts is obviously the people that cleared the latest sweatlord content on the first try with minimum ilvl because anything less and you're not a gamer but you'd be surprised to see how "bad" (in your own terms) the average MMO player is. The fact that FF14 actually has a community step foot into normal (and alliance) raids, Mandatory CT notwithstanding is as good as you're going to get because raiding will always have the stigma of being sweatlord content, especially with the need for consumables which farming them (or the money to buy them off the MB) feels like a second job. I did my sweatlord raiding in other MMOs years ago and the other 6 days a week when I was able to log in was to grind out the currency to my consumables to use on raid night.

Most of the playerbase will not set foot into Savage (or even Extreme) content unless they're going in unsynched and thus comically overpowered. If you start pushing normal content in that direction they're going to leave. Even this "baby step between" thing isn't going to be the success they think it is. It might pull a few of the people that do normal and alliance content to dip their toes into it but not enough to matter for the effort to make it.

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Originally Posted by PariahDoge

I know its the forums where everyone thats posts is obviously the people that cleared the latest sweatlord content on the first try with minimum ilvl because anything less and you're not a gamer but you'd be surprised to see how "bad" (in your own terms) the average MMO player is. The fact that FF14 actually has a community step foot into normal (and alliance) raids, Mandatory CT notwithstanding is as good as you're going to get because raiding will always have the stigma of being sweatlord content, especially with the need for consumables which farming them (or the money to buy them off the MB) feels like a second job. I did my sweatlord raiding in other MMOs years ago and the other 6 days a week when
SNIP because char limit
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-my perception is the official forums are where all the ppl who complain about dungeon "dificulty" go
-the only "sweatlord" content in xiv are ultimates. savage doesn't have to be rushed and can be completed by most ppl as long as they are willing to try
-you quoted "bad" and then wrote "in your own terms" but that word didnt appear in my post...
-when people mention "raiding" 99% of the time they are NOT talking about alliance/normal raids. those are considered casual "made for everyone" content. you really hink alliance raids have a stigma? seriously? in xiv?
-its clear you haven't raided in xiv. getting food and pots a second job? huh? i could spend 30min in OC, find a fortune carrot, and pay for my food and pots for a month. thats one off the cuff example I could give tons more. you are taking your experience from other mmos and assuming xiv is the same. it is not.
-you GROSSLY underestimate how many people do extreme and savage. savage release is a very popular event just because you and your friends don't like it doesnt mean anything about the thousands and thousands that do.

Honesly alot of ppl hold savage on too high of a pedestal. you clearly have this idea built up in your head that its some "super hardcore "sweatlord" omg soooo difficult" content when that couldnt be further from the truth. im an average-skilled gamer at best and ive cleared all savage in dt and even FRU. trust me if i can do it then almost anyone can.

the problem then comes from this attitude you have of "us vs them" as if people who do savage hate every casual and just want the game tailored to them. the reality is we just want to stop falling asleep during normal content. but then ppl come out and cry and say its too hard. ppl actually complain that they had to fail a mech first in order to learn it. i shit you not thats a real thing people say. they literally are against *anything* that they dont win on the first try. i just dont get this mentality and never will. if you are so averse to the actual game part of the video game then just watch it on youtube. let the people who actually want to PLAY have fun and stop asking for an "I win" button

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Originally Posted by Flowerscody2

-you quoted "bad" and then wrote "in your own terms" but that word didnt appear in my post...

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It's called reading the context. Never cared much for people that dance around an idea without coming out to say to leave themselves plausible deniabiltiy.

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Originally Posted by Flowerscody2

-when people mention "raiding" 99% of the time they are NOT talking about alliance/normal raids. those are considered casual "made for everyone" content. you really hink alliance raids have a stigma? seriously? in xiv?

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This I will concede this, for the most part since my queue times aren't too hateful on these even if I get Crystal Tower far more than I'd like.

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Originally Posted by Flowerscody2

-its clear you haven't raided in xiv. getting food and pots a second job? huh? i could spend 30min in OC, find a fortune carrot, and pay for my food and pots for a month. thats one off the cuff example I could give tons more. you are taking your experience from other mmos and assuming xiv is the same. it is not.

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I did back during Endwalker had someone in our group talk us into it. Dipped into my gil, crystals and the like to feed mats to our omnicrafter who cooked up food and pots for us. Housing lottery never liked me anyways so no real loss on the cash. Group as a whole crashed and burned and spiraled when we had to pull in randoms to fill holes from consistent no-shows.

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Originally Posted by Flowerscody2

-you GROSSLY underestimate how many people do extreme and savage. savage release is a very popular event just because you and your friends don't like it doesnt mean anything about the thousands and thousands that do.

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I'M RIGHT! NO, I'M RIGHT! is all this boils down to.

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Originally Posted by Flowerscody2

Honesly alot of ppl hold savage on too high of a pedestal. (Rest cut due to character limit)

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Years of experience in other online communities has taught me otherwise. Your first two sentences in that block alone contradict each other. You want to stop falling asleep in content that is a breeze for you but is difficult for other people. If you're doing Savage or even Ultimate content you are not an average skilled gamer. You are somewhere in the top 10% (possibly even higher). You may not be the top of that, but you are leaps and bounds over most of the people exclusively doing Duty Finder content. Everyone always tries to call themselves "average" unless the ones pulling world firsts or posting the best parses on the log sites as some kind of false humiltiy thing.

How much of the active player base has cleared the current savage tier? 6%?
How many even attempt some savage raids? 15%-25%?

Guys, guys, there are already threads out there for the alleged savagisation of normal content, lets keep that discussion in the places it belongs. This thread is simply a person who came back from a break and needs to learn the new signposting the devs have tried out in DT.

Well I may aswell post an update. I'm on post-DT patch 7.2 now, just need to grind a few tomes to get my ilevel up to do a trial called "Recollection". I started the relic quest (i think? It did tell me to farm fates for some stuff...) and i've got miner to lvl100, just farming mats for some decent gear and i'm almost lv100 with goldsmith and leatherwork. I'm actually quite surprised by how much stuff there is to do now. o/