MSQ should NOT give EXP!

I never liked the fact that you can level just by talking to NPCs.. I get zero satisfaction on gaining levels when doing the MSQ.. unlike in FF 11, leveling felt honorable. We felt pround getting each level.

EXP should be earned by combat and combat only.

It's pretty standard for any MMORPG to give EXP for doing quests.

I liked the FF11 style and that's why I liked leveling in Eureka by just killing enemies and nothing else. I literally just killed enemeis. I didn't even do the challenge log or NMs until around level 12.

But I'm a minority. Most people hated the idea of that and went right for the most efficient method of the challenge log. Many avoided Eureka, while others only did it because the challenge log existed to speed it up.

It's just not popular among players for leveling to take ages like that.

What? This would make all the newbies and sprouts miserable since they'd all be under-leveled for new content on their journey to DT.

No one should have to grind millions of mobs to gain levels in the fields since it would be so tedious, and you can already do that in Eureka. Also, FF11 is still active so you can just re-sub to that if you miss their gameplay :confused:

Define "we".

That way of leveling is really old-school, in a time when people had more time on their hands too. What could happen and I'd agree with is a reduction of EXP from MSQ, and frankly, get rid of the "Road to" buffs. But completely removing the EXP from MSQ? No.

Note aside, I've seen you complaining a lot. Why do you keep playing a game that makes you miserable?

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Originally Posted by Miguel85NYC

I never liked the fact that you can level just by talking to NPCs.. I get zero satisfaction on gaining levels when doing the MSQ.. unlike in FF 11, leveling felt honorable. We felt pround getting each level.

EXP should be earned by combat and combat only.

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Can't we just buff other methods of getting EXP as opposed to nerfing MSQ?

That's a no from me, chief.

There are many "inconveniences" this game no longer has which I'll go to bat for (having to go to the raid entrance to queue up for it, certain detrimental traits associated with certain oGCDs, etc etc...) but the EXP mill ain't a hill I'm gonna die on. I still remember at launch of 3.0 leveling DRK and coming to really.... really................ dislike moogles as I put myself through each and every one of their quests in Churning Mists while I waited for the dungeon or a FATE to pop. In retrospect it was pretty funny how grumpy Sidurgu was throughout the quests but mannnnnn that was such a bore.

I think I'm fine with the MSQ raining down disgusting amounts of EXP on people.

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Originally Posted by Miguel85NYC

I never liked the fact that you can level just by talking to NPCs.. I get zero satisfaction on gaining levels when doing the MSQ.. unlike in FF 11, leveling felt honorable. We felt pround getting each level.

EXP should be earned by combat and combat only.

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You could still level just by killing enemies. FATEs and levequests are also an option. There's no need to remove exp from quests for everyone when you could make the personal choice not to complete them.

Let’s talk about the actual reality of being the "Warrior of Light":

The Point-A-to-Point-B Simulator: I spend 70% of my playtime running from one NPC to the next, only for NPC A to tell me to ask NPC B (who is standing literally 10 yards away) if he’s had breakfast yet. If I’m putting in the mileage of an Olympic marathon runner, I’d like to see some virtual rewards for it, thank you very much. Every quest turn-in is basically a receipt for my worn-out soles!

Assisted Living for Eorzea’s Elite: The helplessness of these NPCs is truly world-class. We literally save the universe, slay gods, and stare into the abyss of the void, but apparently, Alphinaud and the gang can’t even boil a pot of soup or gather information without me holding their hands. That EXP isn't a "learning experience"; it’s compensation for the emotional damage I suffer every time I have to "survey the local residents" because the guards apparently have collective amnesia.

The Human Statues: Has anyone actually considered the NPCs who have been standing in the exact same spot since the ARR era (2013!)? There’s a guy in the Waking Sands who has been waiting TEN YEARS for me to bring him three grapes. Is that dedication? Or just extreme laziness? These people have grown roots while I’m out there saving the world. :confused: When I finally show up to finish their menial tasks, EXP is the absolute bare minimum I can demand as "hazard pay for dealing with social incompetence."

Conclusion: As long as NPCs don't learn how to pick their own grapes or walk three steps forward without having a panic attack, that EXP is staying right where it belongs: in my bar.

i've never been excited about levelling in this game tbh. levelling through 'dungeons' isnt really satisfying either. and the skills are so stretched out over the 100 lvls they they dont feel exciting to learn either xD

That's a silly notion. MSQ doesn't even give out a meaningful amount of XP. Compare that to non-battle Levequests, GC turn-ins, the daily roulette bonus, or the challenge log. If you want to stretch leveling, slash those by a factor of at least 10.

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Originally Posted by Miguel85NYC

unlike in FF 11

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Well and look where that game is now

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Originally Posted by Miguel85NYC

I never liked the fact that you can level just by talking to NPCs.. I get zero satisfaction on gaining levels when doing the MSQ.. unlike in FF 11, leveling felt honorable. We felt pround getting each level.

EXP should be earned by combat and combat only.

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Making killing enemies only way to level up will cause most players quit the game, if the amount of exp gained from killing enemies isn't massively increased because no one wants spend days or even weeks only killing enemies to get single level and of course not forget that this idea could ended up causing AFK exp bot problem becoming so bad that you see AFK exp farm bot users everywhere in every map killing enemies 24/7.

And i don't see any point being proud getting level in FFXI when they have massively buffed exp gain from killing enemies to make leveling lot faster in recent years.

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Originally Posted by GlowClam

The Human Statues: Has anyone actually considered the NPCs who have been standing in the exact same spot since the ARR era (2013!)?

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There is this one guy in Ishgard in the Brume who's trying to lift that one big rock for 11 years now. Being the Errand Girl of Light, I would love to lend him a hand - but he's so desparate, he doesn't even offer me a quest to help him.

BTT: That's a big no from me. As soon as you want to level alt jobs, you have to refrain to fight EXP anyway - so let me level my main job by doing the MSQ.

EXP has become an afterthought with the ease of leveling, forged by 12 years of updates and lowered amounts of EXP required to level. New players going through the story are regularly 10+ levels above the suggested MSQ difficulty. Gear score is even more of a factor in balancing the story difficulty. A quick market board trip and a new weapon make a world of difference for a new player who wants to breeze through. A new player has to actively handicap themself if they want a challenge.

The current progression system leaves much to be desired, but changing from the formula would require a complete rebalancing and that's not happening.

I know that FFXIV has removed a lot of staple MMO systems to it's own detriment, but this is not one of them.

We didn't move away from the Everquest style mindless mob grinding because modern MMOs forgot the good lessons of the past, we did so because mindless mob grinding sucked.

I disagree.

What I would say, however... Is that I don't think main quests alone should get you all the levels you need for a given expansion.

It was nice having those catch-up points where you could explore a little, e.g., doing side quests or FATEs... Or doing dungeons

I wouldn't want to see FFXI's levelling parties in XIV, but not because they were bad in XI...

After 20 years I can still play any single job in XI 18 hours a day and never get sick of it. I run one expert roullette in XIV for ten minutes and don't care to touch that job again for days.

There is no way I would repeatedly kill mobs with XIV's repetitive rotation design unless the xp gain was at least as fast as it is on BLU. To me leveling through msq and linear dungeon runs works fine for XIV's combat design.

Miguel...Mijo. I get you're bored, but this is by far the worst bait thread you could have come up with.

nice bait. try not to be this obvious next time

While the msq gives an excessive amount of exp for one job i think the intention is to let you level other jobs while progressing the story since multiclassing is a big appeal for this game. As other have stated earning exp from quests is standard on most mmos. I think the biggest issue i have with leveling up in this game is levels that dont give a skill or trait. Levels that arent multiples of 10 dont give the player any significant power boosts because gear in the x1-x9 range is balanced around the previous expansions endgame gear. So those levels where you get nothing really sting.

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Originally Posted by Miguel85NYC

I never liked the fact that you can level just by talking to NPCs.. I get zero satisfaction on gaining levels when doing the MSQ.. unlike in FF 11, leveling felt honorable. We felt pround getting each level.

EXP should be earned by combat and combat only.

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I played FFXI from the day of NA release and for about 3 years after. Had over 365 days played at the last time i checked. I loved the game back then but i will NEVER play another exp system like that. It was grueling to level in the vanilla days. And losing exp when you died was just pouring salt on the wound.... Flexing Diablos summon outside of Jueno was fun though.

Go play FF11, EverQuest, or any of the other early 2000s mmos where all you do is mindlessly grind mobs for xp.

I hold an unpopular opinion but I don't even like having levels at all in games. Whether you can gain them from talking to NPCs or grinding somewhere it feels the same. A bar on the screen fills up over and over with no meaningful impact on the game besides arbitrarily locking the player out of content. I'd much rather see progression in the form of something interesting like exploration or skill expression through learning deep game mechanics. Numbers going up on screen have never been part of the fun for me.

That's a horrible idea. If you want to do it, take a class you won't play and use the MSQ experience on it. Then go level up your play classes the way you propose.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

I hold an unpopular opinion but I don't even like having levels at all in games. Whether you can gain them from talking to NPCs or grinding somewhere it feels the same. A bar on the screen fills up over and over with no meaningful impact on the game besides arbitrarily locking the player out of content. I'd much rather see progression in the form of something interesting like exploration or skill expression through learning deep game mechanics. Numbers going up on screen have never been part of the fun for me.

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PyurBlue, if you want games that aren't "numbers go up" then don't play RPGs. Any RPG that isn't like that is not really an RPG.

Since you mentioned FF11 (bleh) ... the forced party levelling (in the early game) is really screwed up. Unless you are a NIN, BRD or Redmage. (or in a static party).

I disagree with quest not giving exp. if anything I think quest should give more exp to encourage people to do them. It's also a onetime thing so once a quest is don't it's not like its repeatable outside of the society quest.

Heavily disagree with this one. You want us to go back to the old days of MMOs where you have to kill hundreds, if not thousands of monsters, to gain 1%? No, I don't want to go back there again. This is a surefire way to burn people out.

Not getting exp from MSQ is one of the dumbest idea's I've ever seen on this forum

Gaining exp. for things other than combat has been a part of RPGs since the beginning.

That said, the MSQ could use more interaction and action, beside "inspect nondescript location" and "go do dungeon". Sometimes I just want to shoot a guy who's talking too much, like Zenos or Krile.

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Originally Posted by LanceSummers

PyurBlue, if you want games that aren't "numbers go up" then don't play RPGs. Any RPG that isn't like that is not really an RPG.

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Leveling is usually considered a core element of RPGs, I'm aware of this yet I still disagree. When I think RPG I think immersive experience above anything else. XP bars don't contribute to that and often take away from the illusion.

I'm not asking for levels to be taken away from games in which they are established despite by opinion though. That would only disappoint the existing fanbase that is in favor of them.

While I'm posting, and since I didn't clearly state it in my original post, I'm also very much against the idea of stripping the MSQ of XP and making the level grind any longer.

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Originally Posted by Miguel85NYC

I never liked the fact that you can level just by talking to NPCs.. I get zero satisfaction on gaining levels when doing the MSQ.. unlike in FF 11, leveling felt honorable. We felt pround getting each level.

EXP should be earned by combat and combat only.

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Lol get a load of this fella! The "Warrior King" wants leveling to feel "honorable"!

Get outta here with that bs, boy!

1. Old fashioned grinding is a sure fire to lose players.

2. I don't think I can take anyone who calls his character "Lord" seriously.

Let's just call you "Raz". The Raz-ma-taz who ain't got no jazz!

Nothing I hate more than "You need to be level XX to continue the MSQ" messages. It was terrible in ARR, going back to it is a horrible idea. So bad in fact that I'm sure this post is just bait. Only thing I can agree on is that the xp gain shouldn't scale with [Road to 90] buffs, etc.