Buff/Tweak RDM

RDM is a somewhat underpowered job in CC currently, with low damage output and potential, a clunky kit and a lot of extra work required to get any reward out of it.

Scorch
On paper this spell is fine, 16k cleaving dot with half the damage frontloaded and the next half occuring over 2 ticks, the issue with this is that it's locked behind your melee combo. Red Mage already has very limited ranged options and Scorch being locked behind the melee combo makes it rather unintutive to use since the melee combo is extremely weak against unguarded targets and is not something that is good to use early in burst or even really in neutral as well as forcing melee range on a caster. This spell is very slow, heavily telegraphed and not that strong compared to other cleaving dots, so there's really no reason it shouldn't be more accessible in the rotation. The finisher of the melee combo can be replaced with something weaker if needs be (holy/flare) since the job is already sorely lacking damage. Scorch also has insane animation lock for no reason, as much as a hardcast easily for an instant that doesn't even do much damage.

Displacement
Displacement is a backstep that also buffs the potency of the next spell by 15%, on paper this is fine but again, in practice it is very clunky. Buffing a spell via displacement is clunky due to the fact it moves you AWAY from your target and you would only ever use the buff on Scorch/Prefulgence. It's very easy to move out of range of retreating target trying to buff a spell and lose pressure completely or be forced to use up a charge of corps a corps, limiting your future chase and movement. The backstep also limits its usefuless when holding point is required, when most jobs can output their highest damage for no drawback. Ideally displacement should be a movement tool and not tied to damage buffing.

Corps a Corps
This ability is mostly fine in practice it just needs to provide a 25% buff in movement speed or something, chasing on Red Mage isn't great due to the fact you have so few instants that are worth popping on a single target (and just a lack of accessible instant ranged options in general) and the melee combo is your best option, yet it's hard to actually use the melee combo on a retreating target due to the lack of movement speed buff.

Southern Cross
Please just make it 2 circles covering roughly the same area, the cross is dumb.

Nice analysis that pinpoint the essential issues on this job. Also, as it's the main mode I play, my point of view is mainly about FL (even though I sometimes play CC on RDM too)

As a novice that only currently plays RDM in PvP, I also notice that even the melee combo seems less impactful and very situational in usefulness on unguarded opponents (like finishing very very low HP opponents or to quickly damage 2-3 grouped opponents while under buff/BH or after Corps-a-Corps), as well as ending on an "instant" cast (Scorch) that takes too much time be launched/applied (delaying both the base damage, but also the application of the DoT and often letting the opponent heal enough before fleeing).

Also, let's be honest. Like in PvE, RDM in PvP can hardly kieep up against other DPS jobs that have stronger bursts/damage output, even though the Crowd Control abilities (Vice of Thorns and Resolution) are my favourite to use in fights, and can be deadly to grouped opponents carelessly forming a blob in front of you. But here again, this rare configuration is very situational, and good enough players will try to avoid such error in fights (even more in CC). Personal opinion : it's also kind of fun that Resolution allows a few seconds to let you change the direction of the line attack/Silence, even though it delays the Silence application and can even kill you if you're careless.

As for another interesting plus I noticed from playing RDM : the ability of Prefulgence/Southern Cross (LB) to help AoE-heal your melees that are in front during the fights is always welcome (even though it's much more useful with high enough BH). it's definitely not at the level of healers, but even in 1v1 or 1v2 fights, it can help you as a RDM to stay alive (combined with your Limit Break if you apply it on yourself) and keep the most vital players alive (again, with this awesome Limit Break). And you can do these while staying behind the front lines (most of the times, as action sometimes calls for boldness, risks, and sacrifice o7).

Anyway, even at my level, I notice that it takes a lot of effort to play RDM better. I'm certain I don't play it at its full potential, and that even so, there are more useful or powerful jobs out there.
But as a player that sucks at PvP, meta, high-level skills, and multitasking in general, I love playing RDM and I loved seeing how I improved on this job over the months.
Thus I think that RDM deserves a bit more love from SE than just a buff of reduction of the damage taken xD <3.

The problem is that SE has a lot of trouble balancing around crowd control utility, which is king and has always been in the mode. If a job is chokeful of CC abilities like RDM, WAR, BRD are, especially if they are AoE or on demand, this gives them a seriously oppressive presence on the field already. With that in mind, and baring potential issues of job design that introduces the conflicts you mentioned, RDM functions relatively fine in my opinion in terms of balance there, and the problem is that it competes with jobs that are absolutely busted like PCT, sharing a similar niche. On top of it, RDM is also more weighted toward melee in the matchmaking algorithm and this makes you like for DNC fill for melees a lot more, which can frankly feel like crap at times.

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Originally Posted by Valence

The problem is that SE has a lot of trouble balancing around crowd control utility, which is king and has always been in the mode. If a job is chokeful of CC abilities like RDM, WAR, BRD are, especially if they are AoE or on demand, this gives them a seriously oppressive presence on the field already. With that in mind, and baring potential issues of job design that introduces the conflicts you mentioned, RDM functions relatively fine in my opinion in terms of balance there, and the problem is that it competes with jobs that are absolutely busted like PCT, sharing a similar niche. On top of it, RDM is also more weighted toward melee in the matchmaking algorithm and this makes you like for DNC fill for melees a lot more, which can frankly feel like crap at times.

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But again, aside from the Crowd Control abilities which are very welcome, I feel like there is too much of a "delaying application design" on the offensive toolkit of RDM, even on casts deemed "Instant" (even the Limit Break takes a few seconds to be applied, letting a player with good instinct or reflexes place its Guard up and avoid any damage).
This delay may be a good challenge for those who like difficulties in mastering jobs (by properly managing cds and effects duration), it's very commendable, but I think it can be improved for RDM to make so that it has more offensive impact without even changing any potency value here.

This is why I'd rather see parts of the kit moved around and changed rather than receiving a bunch of raw number buffs. Things like Scorch being a regular neutral ranged option with a CD, Corps helping with movement speed, Displacement no longer being tied to damage, southern cross shape change etc. I think the damage and clunkiness is moreso a symptom of the kit's current design fighting against how you want to play the job rather than just the numbers attached to it. There's a lot of ways they could do it, like instead of having Scorch be a regular button like Slipstream it could remain where it is as a melee finisher and instead have a single Holy/Flare on a CD as a neutral cleave option instead with heal/ dot damage focus, sort of like PCT (even though PCT literally stole that from RDM, I'll never forgive the recency bias). Or they could do the reversal and tack the Holy/Flare as the finisher and have Scorch as the standalone button. Something less interesting but also helpful would be some kind of instant cast 8k filler proc you get from displacement so that you get another ranged option from good usage of displacement, helping with your chases and allowing you to poke at range and be forced into meleeing for scorch procs less often. Just examples from my fried mind but there's a lot of options available. I'm not a great RDM but it's what I'm most familiar with and it's what I've had the most success climbing with in Ranked, a good RDM or player in general will make the job work very well but it sticks out as smth that makes you work a lot more for not anything game tilting as it stands imo.

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Originally Posted by Freelili

This is why I'd rather see parts of the kit moved around and changed rather than receiving a bunch of raw number buffs. Things like Scorch being a regular neutral ranged option with a CD, Corps helping with movement speed, Displacement no longer being tied to damage, southern cross shape change etc. I think the damage and clunkiness is moreso a symptom of the kit's current design fighting against how you want to play the job rather than just the numbers attached to it. There's a lot of ways they could do it, like instead of having Scorch be a regular button like Slipstream it could remain where it is as a melee finisher and instead have a single Holy/Flare on a CD as a neutral cleave option instead with heal/ dot damage focus, sort of like PCT (even though PCT literally stole that from RDM, I'll never forgive the recency bias). Or they could do the reversal and tack the Holy/Flare as the finisher and have Scorch as the standalone button. Something less interesting but also helpful would be some kind of instant cast 8k filler proc you get from displacement so that you get another ranged option from good usage of displacement, helping with your chases and allowing you to poke at range and be forced into meleeing for scorch procs less often. Just examples from my fried mind but there's a lot of options available. I'm not a great RDM but it's what I'm most familiar with and it's what I've had the most success climbing with in Ranked, a good RDM or player in general will make the job work very well but it sticks out as smth that makes you work a lot more for not anything game tilting as it stands imo.

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SE should really definitely listen more to this kind of feedback, and not just from jobs' feedback tools. I know it would be infeasible with so many informations at any given time, and that it may be more complicated than anything I could conceive. But when I see people describe such possibilities and ideas, I can't help but dream of what it would concretely look like and feel in our hands.

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Originally Posted by aereniil

But again, aside from the Crowd Control abilities which are very welcome, I feel like there is too much of a "delaying application design" on the offensive toolkit of RDM, even on casts deemed "Instant" (even the Limit Break takes a few seconds to be applied, letting a player with good instinct or reflexes place its Guard up and avoid any damage).
This delay may be a good challenge for those who like difficulties in mastering jobs (by properly managing cds and effects duration), it's very commendable, but I think it can be improved for RDM to make so that it has more offensive impact without even changing any potency value here.

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I don't disagree, I'm not a RDM enjoyer/main, but I've definitely heard people complain that the melee combo and the ranged options feel constrained and don't follow well on what you're trying to achieve when playing both. It forces you to go melee when you want to access your damage ranged spells and melee is used for other things like peeling through guards and/or tanking a bit. Which further cements the strongest points of RDM into its CC (Resolution/Thorns). My comment was more aimed at the fact that I think super heavy CC support jobs like RDM should be balanced within the whole picture more like RDM is.

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Originally Posted by Valence

I don't disagree, I'm not a RDM enjoyer/main, but I've definitely heard people complain that the melee combo and the ranged options feel constrained and don't follow well on what you're trying to achieve when playing both. It forces you to go melee when you want to access your damage ranged spells and melee is used for other things like peeling through guards and/or tanking a bit. Which further cements the strongest points of RDM into its CC (Resolution/Thorns). My comment was more aimed at the fact that I think super heavy CC support jobs like RDM should be balanced within the whole picture more like RDM is.

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I'm curious about what other jobs would play like RDM in PvP, because unfortunately I'm so bad at PvP that I only managed to only success in playing RDM on a not very bad, no good level until now (and I tried PCT, SMN, BLM, VPR, but it was always even worse than the first time I played RDM xD).

Also, I agree that as a support job with a good kit of CC and occasionnal AoE-heals, RDM does some pretty good job.
It just feels bad that to get where I got and even beyond, there seems to need more work around timing and delays (albeit it's rewarding when you success) than needed (I don't know about the other jobs, if the reqjuirements are the same elsewhere). But again, maybe it's just that I'm so bad at PvP, it's only my skill issue.
How I dream of (even seeing/witnessing) more RDMs that outweigh large group (>3) of people more often ! (I can always dream, no ? xD)

RDM suffers from SE deciding that they wanted to get rid of black/white shift from its earlier version, where the whole melee into ranged combo was literally designed to be used as a single move, either in black shift for max damage pressure (melee nasty dots and verflare), or in white shift for survival with barriers (melee) and heals (verholy). You could shift colour in the middle of the moves if something went awry.

Since they consolidated everything into a single stance now the melee combo is defensive only (+ guard piercing though I guess), and the following ranged move (scorch) is still damage focused, it's kinda awkward. Either they need to bring back the shifts, or to give an alternative way to gain Scorch — perhaps just as a follow-up to Resolution.

If you cry long enough, maybe square will listen and buff just like they added unnecessary buffs for already broken classes like machinist, black mage, monk,etc. Who knows.

RDM was pretty fine in endwalker due to white / black stance and generally required knowledge, thus why most didn't bother to play this class. Then in dawntrail they changed rdm so it became a braindead class that everyone started to spam. Then they buffed it a lot to make it tanky, insane heals, can't win 1v1 against it and has good burst + CC. This job all it ever got was buffs and buffs. It's still pretty strong, it's just that some other classes got insane buffs so they are once again leading the charge. I am fine with seeing less and less rdm because honestly nobody likes this new rdm. Too much CC, stupid shield and healing potencies. Nah, your class is fine. Seriously you have one of the best mitigation shield.

Once other classes (if ever) receive nerfs, rdm will once again be "strong". Everybody is tired from shield / heal and cc meta. Square will next patch most probably buff blm again for unknown reasons.

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Originally Posted by MayuAmakura

If you cry long enough, maybe square will listen and buff just like they added unnecessary buffs for already broken classes like machinist, black mage, monk,etc. Who knows.

RDM was pretty fine in endwalker due to white / black stance and generally required knowledge, thus why most didn't bother to play this class. Then in dawntrail they changed rdm so it became a braindead class that everyone started to spam. Then they buffed it a lot to make it tanky, insane heals, can't win 1v1 against it and has good burst + CC. This job all it ever got was buffs and buffs. It's still pretty strong, it's just that some other classes got insane buffs so they are once again leading the charge. I am fine with seeing less and less rdm because honestly nobody likes this new rdm. Too much CC, stupid shield and healing potencies. Nah, your class is fine. Seriously you have one of the best mitigation shield.

Once other classes (if ever) receive nerfs, rdm will once again be "strong". Everybody is tired from shield / heal and cc meta. Square will next patch most probably buff blm again for unknown reasons.

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Can you tell me where the good burst and broken healing potencies are on this job because I have yet to find them. This job has notoriously low damage sync and the healing it gets of Prefulgence is not at all strong compared to other jobs, most of the time it's being sent into overheal anyways on frontliners or just being popped for survival. 1v1 doesn't really matter in CC? Jobs don't kill each other 1v1 in neutral because you can just leave fights, this isn't duelling. Forte is good I agree but it's far from broken, it's a flash mit with a tiny duration that gets broken after 8k potency hits it, it's strongest on big hits as a flash guard, nothing unfair or broken about that at all. The shield you get from your melee combo is only 12k total...that goes up in increments of 4k so it's really not particularly strong either. Again this job doesn't need crazy buffs it just needs tweaking more than anything because parts of the kit feel bad in practice. I assure you this job is nowhere near as broken and absolutely not as braindead as you have led yourself to believe lol, even as a frontliner a RDM is not obnoxious at all to fight by itself. RDM is a little bit of everything but highly diluted master of none. (also of all the jobs you could've listed as broken you put MCH?)

Winning 1v1s in Crystalline Conflict? Really?