Infrequent windows for fish are good, Purse of Riches is too much

Purse of Riches is a big fish from High Tide Harbor in Tuliyollal added in patch 7.4. Through extensive and conclusive testing by the global fishing community, it was determined the window conditions it can bite in are during rain between 16 and 18 Eorzea time after cloudy weather (or, short hand Clouds -> Rain 16-18). This is a notable weather condition because it is the first time any fish has conditions which exclusively involve the rarest possible weather for the zone - a mere 5% chance each for Clouds or Rain to occur at any time. Add in that this weather has to occur in a specific sequence (Clouds INTO Rain) and at a specific time of Eorzean day, Purse of Riches has become the rarest fish in the game by a large margin.

With this weather condition, Purse of Riches will see an average time between windows of roughly 19.5 real world days. This average is nearly 3 - 4x higher than previous and much older ‘rare window’ fish, with the infamous Bobgoblin Bass having an average time between windows of ~5 real world days. Some players have submitted bug reports due to this unprecedented increase in infrequency. There have been some responses to the reports, but we have yet to hear if Purse of Riches’ weather conditions are correct or are just a bug.

With its current conditions, many fishers are feeling disappointed in their inability to have even a chance at the fish due to its infrequency within the next few months alone.


Regardless of whether Purse of Riches' conditions are intentional or not, it has brought forward a conversation around the frequency of fish windows and the core design principles of the Fisher job.

I, personally, don’t look at how frequent a fish’s window is - I look at how engaged I can be when going for a fish. How often am I using skills, abilities, and fishing hole knowledge? Or, how often do I get to see other players fishing and engage with them? These are core principles of what makes the fisher job so unique, even after 10+ years. Fish with infrequent windows typically fall into the latter’s category of engagement; they become informal and almost impromptu mini-community ‘events.’

Moderate infrequent windows for a fish is a positive aspect of the job, and supports the core design philosophy of the Fisher: interact with other fishers, share information, and build a community. But, during the time preceding a notably long period until the next window, we see a downturn in the morale and interest in the community, with increased frustration - until now, these only occur a few times a year. With Purse of Riches however, these moments will become much more common. When a fish window becomes too infrequent we will see negativity and demotivation appear more often, providing a bigger overall hit to the community. Simply put - Purse of Riches is too infrequent to positively impact the fishing experience as a whole.

Infrequent windows are not the only way to achieve this effect (nor should it be). We see similar, if not stronger, support towards this core principle through highly technical and uncommon windowed fish. For example, look towards when Snowy Parexus was added, or the continual Ruby Dragon windows for this in action. Players come together, helping each other on-site with sharing bait, strategies, and support. Not only do these (among other) fish support the Fisher job’s core design and philosophy, they contribute to a stronger community which in turn help build the confidence and knowledge of fishers as a whole.

Overall, I do think infrequent window fish are needed to support the core fisher job design, their infrequency should be reasonable to the average player so they do not feel like they lack ALL control over their ability to catch a fish. Purse of Riches is a step too far in that regard. Regardless of if Purse of Riches conditions are a bug, or are even changed - I hope that we see more engaging fish which utilize multiple abilities and continue to encourage community involvement.

Seconded. As a player who works an office job Monday-Friday, I find that the upcoming Purse of Riches windows are not favorable for my timezone and availability. Predicting the weather windows out from here, in the next four months, the fish will have only ten windows where it is available to be caught. Of those ten windows, only ONE WINDOW occurs during the hours I can normally access and play the game. One more window (on 6/7, so the one FOUR MONTHS away) happens at 5:26am in my timezone. Historically I have refused to interrupt my sleeping hours just to attend a fish window unless I would be waking up soon after anyway, but a fish with this little availability to me would challenge me to make unhealthy decisions, like interrupting my sleep schedule, just to get that additional chance at it, especially if it becomes the first chance I've had in four months.

Fishers have seen other fish whose conditions have tempted them into making similar unhealthy choices about their engagement, but Purse of Riches' extremely low availability makes those unhealthy choices more tempting, and frankly, I don't find that very fun, or encouraging. I agree with Fruity Snacks that fish with infrequent windows do lend themselves to miniature community events where fishers congregate under those rare conditions, and this is good for the community, but Purse of Riches takes that too far. I also find downtime to be the least interesting aspect of a challenge. It is literally the least engaging way of making a fish challenging, because it literally means I cannot engage in that piece of content for an extended period of time. There is no "improve your skill, get better gear with better stats, learn how your abilities interact to make the most of your attempt" that can affect anything about a fish simply not being available.

There is a lot of content in the game that I enjoy playing and I don't play simply for the fishing, but the fishing is a major part of what I enjoy doing. This situation where a fish will be unavailable to me for so long simply because its overall availability is the lowest of any other fish (by a wide margin) is just very frustrating and disheartening.

While I echo Fruity's sentiment that a moderate infrequent window is a positive aspect of the job, Purse of Riches's availability is a detriment to itself. I work an office job Monday through Friday. Missing windows is not uncommon for me, but it has never been this drastic before. Of the upcoming ten windows, none of them occur during hours when I would be able to access the game without interrupting my sleeping or work schedule. The first window that would not require this of me is in August.

When Purse of Riches was first discovered on January 10, I unfortunately slept through the window. At the time, I didn't sweat it. I have always had a steadfast rule that I will not interrupt my sleep schedule specifically for a fish. The mantra has always been "there will be another window". However, that mantra was always said with the belief that the next window I could attend would be within a reasonable period of time. A few weeks, maybe a couple months depending on the fish. Not seven months. This single missed window has haunted me for the last month and has greatly contributed to the temptation to wake up at 5:06 AM on 2/19, just so I don't miss it again.

This is the first time in my entire journey catching Big Fish that I've been seriously tempted to get up at an unreasonable hour, all just to catch this fish before August. I also personally find downtime to be the least interesting aspect of a challenge when it comes to fishing and while I don't mind it, an extremely low availability only acts to the detriment of the fish and the player base by encouraging unhealthy choices such as disrupting sleep schedules. I greatly dislike that I even have to seriously consider such a thing and the only reason I am is because of this downtime.

I am the type of person that, knowing my usual work schedule, will wake up as soon as the servers go live on big patch days just so I can squeeze in a little bit of time to play the new content before I have to go into work. It is something I do with excitement and have never done out of obligation, because I know whatever content I don't get to before work will still be there after I get back. This is not the case with Purse of Riches. If I don't get up to see that 5 AM window, Purse of Riches won't be there for another month. And if I don't get up for that 5 AM window, Purse of Riches won't be there outside of working hours for another two months. And if I don't get up for that 2 AM window, the cycle continues on. I feel no excitement at the prospect of getting up for this fish window. All I feel is an extreme sense of fear and dread at the prospect that Purse of Riches slips from my grasp or never even bites, meaning that I would have disrupted my entire sleep cycle for nothing, and would have to do it all again a month later for another shot at it before August.

I also agree that absurdly rare big fish windows are unhealthy for the game and fishing community. I don't think its enjoyable for players who enjoy fishing content to just have fish out of reach because they cant even make it to the fish window. I think rare fish are interesting and drive discussion and interest in fishing, but once a month windows are absurd. I think weekly windows would be a lot more reasonable for future rare big fish.

And I agree that the "mechanics" and strategies behind each big fish are much more interesting than the availability!

It should be important to note the short window as well. Not only is the downtime extremely lengthy (current tracking is 9 hours, 20 days, 18d, 28d, 1d, 1d, 14d, 11d, and 10d) but there's only 5 real world minutes per window.

Next 10 windows are from 18/02 to 07/06 and of these 10 windows:

• 1/10 is one a weekend (6:26a Eastern 07/06)
• 3/10 are between 1:26-5:06 am Eastern
• 5/10 are during prime 9:00a-5:00p Eastern work hours
• 1/10 (the 18/02 window) is during evening hours on a weekday (7:46p Eastern)

I like some waits between windows but I think for a worldwide game waits of this length that are almost exclusively at these kinds of hours is pretty bad for a large portion of players. I set alarms and would wake up 3-6 times through the wee hours of the morning to finish off the ARR-ShB Log and it was honestly a miserable experience.

Time requirements, weather requirements, and moderate waits between windows doesn't just make the FSH content more enjoyable to figure out but it is also semi-representative of real life fishing where different fish will respond differently to weather and time of day.

However, the current standing knowledge of Purse of Riches goes far beyond this into absurdity in my opinion. There's supposed to be a down time of 92 days according to existing weather pattern knowledge and belief of required conditions!

Jeremy Wade could complete a season of River Monsters in that amount of time.

The weather conditions for Purse of Riches makes me sad for everyone who is not able to be in FFXIV at the drop of a hat. Rare fish are fun events to get together with other fishers and celebrate friends getting the rare catch, but this level of duration between windows promotes an unhealthy relationship with the game. Do I wake up in the middle of the night to go try and catch a fish? Do I put off a social engagement or try to take a day off of work to try and try to hit the window before it's gone for 90 days?

This level of downtime artificially lengthens the amount of time the average fisher will be able to progress towards completing their Fishing Log. If the rarity was caused by a technical difficulty that let me attempt to catch it more frequently I wouldn't care but this will have the side effect of encouraging the players to have a hostile relationship with self-care.

I mean so long as the fish isn't needed for any quests or something, a super rare fish sounds cool, actually?

As someone who loves fishing in the game, that's neat. More like that please, for other jobs, too!

Plus let's not forget it's still on the quite easy/fast side of things to get, comparing actually difficult stuff like say, getting Insane in the Membrane in WoW back when it was first added, legendary precursor drops in GW2 before the rate got upped or even worse, many of the epic spawns in early EQ1, like the Enchanter stuff where you needed a Monk to essentially camp stuff days and nights for you to be ready to ideally IRL give you a ring that your 20-50 people need to log in and you should start the phone chain. (none of these were or are good designs, it's for illustration)

Those were all bad because they were needed for something. This just being fluff for bragging rights if you did actually manage to be by chance in Tuli when the stars align? That's kinda neat!

Hi, I reported Purse as a potential bug or mistake, and received this response confirming it is working as intended:

"We understand that you feel there may be an issue with an aspect of game play not functioning properly, and we apologize for any hindrance this may have caused you. Based on your description, we have found that your reported concern is not in error and working as designed."

For reference, this was my report:

"Purse of Riches appears to have abnormal spawn conditions, either due to copying assets from an adjacent item number (Punutiy Pain) or from perhaps a simple oversight when selecting the weather conditions (max possible rarity was chosen for the first time ever for a fish), resulting in erroneous and unusual downtimes of up to 90 real world days. Regarding Punutiy Pain, both items were added in Patch 7.4 and have Clouds --> Rain weather. Since their item numbers border each other in the client, I am cautiously filing a bug report in the event that the Purse of Riches spawn conditions are unintentional. Thank you."

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Originally Posted by IhzaMhaskova

It should be important to note the short window as well. Not only is the downtime extremely lengthy (current tracking is 9 hours, 20 days, 18d, 28d, 1d, 1d, 14d, 11d, and 10d) but there's only 5 real world minutes per window.

Next 10 windows are from 18/02 to 07/06 and of these 10 windows:

• 1/10 is one a weekend (6:26a Eastern 07/06)
• 3/10 are between 1:26-5:06 am Eastern
• 5/10 are during prime 9:00a-5:00p Eastern work hours
• 1/10 (the 18/02 window) is during evening hours on a weekday (7:46p Eastern)

I like some waits between windows but I think for a worldwide game waits of this length that are almost exclusively at these kinds of hours is pretty bad for a large portion of players. I set alarms and would wake up 3-6 times through the wee hours of the morning to finish off the ARR-ShB Log and it was honestly a miserable experience.

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When it comes to specific times for fishing, we do need to remember that FFXIV is a global game and fishing is a global activity (even more-so now with the CN/KO expansions). What is bad for one region is good for another, and while it sucks to be in a region where a string of windows don't align the full randomness of windows is needed in order to help support the flavour and style of Fisher. So when the times happen is not an amazing argument - the frequency of them would be stronger to point out.

I would consider myself a casual Fisher, but I do like to chase achievements. In particular, I go after achievements that align with dedication, determination, perseverance, and skill—and actively avoid ones that boil down to luck, especially ones that hoist layer upon layer of luck. Just as Fruity_Snacks outlines, there is a "sweet spot" where some chance fosters community and doesn't damage morale.

Within and without FFXIV Fishing, once you cross the threshold where people feel like the main factor is pure chance and personal luck, most will lose interest. Their own personal contributions to the effort don't matter so much as an arbitrary dice roll. Then you further limit how many times you can even get that dice to roll, and people won't even bother. There's a balance to be struck, but this is tipped much too far in the realm of rarity as-is.

I really hope that this fish has a high catch rate because a fish being unavailable that much is worrisome. A slippery fish or challenging fish is one thing, but a fish that is unavailable for 3 weeks on average? A fish that will be unavailable for over 90 days later in the year? I wonder how people will feel about Purse during the 90 day downtime.

I already hear people joke about how fishing is a job for people who are unemployed. Do you work a job or have school? I guess you gotta be willing to ruin your sleep schedule and hope/pray you can attempt to fish for Purse every couple months or so.

I don't mind the idea of fish having less availability than others. I think it's nice to not constantly feel obligated to go to a fish every hour or every day, but a downtime of 3 weeks on average? This is going to have a similar impact anyway. There have been times where I really tried to catch a fish and had terrible luck, but I felt okay with taking a break because there will be other windows. For Purse, however, I feel obligated to go to as many windows I can because of how few windows there are and how many of those windows I'll actually be able to make.

As a fisher, I like to fish. I want to fish. The idea of waiting a couple months at a time so that I can fish for 5 minutes, especially a straight cast fish, doesn't feel great. Overall I've been very happy wish FSH this expansion. We got some great abilities and fun new mechanics. If this fish truly isn't bugged, I hope we don't see another like it.

If we are going to have extremely rare fish wish huge amounts of downtime, I think I would want to see that as a separate category from Big fish? Maybe legendary fish (fishing ultimate) and there's like one an expansion with it's own achievement(s).

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Originally Posted by Stelle

If we are going to have extremely rare fish wish huge amounts of downtime, I think I would want to see that as a separate category from Big fish? Maybe legendary fish (fishing ultimate) and there's like one an expansion with it's own achievement(s).

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Not everything needs to be exclusively for achievement hunters and album collectors. A fish can just be super super rare and hence virtually nobody will have it.

Why is this fish something a fisher has to have?

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Not everything needs to be exclusively for achievement hunters and album collectors. A fish can just be super super rare and hence virtually nobody will have it.

Why is this fish something a fisher has to have?

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It's the Fisher's way.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Not everything needs to be exclusively for achievement hunters and album collectors. A fish can just be super super rare and hence virtually nobody will have it.

Why is this fish something a fisher has to have?

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Sorry, I'm confused. Why does a fish tied to achievements need to be for achievements...? I don't know if I understand your question. :( A lot of fish are super super rare. I mentioned the idea of "legendary" fish not because it's something I necessarily want, but because this fish doesn't fit what is expected/reasonable for a Big Fish imo.

There's regular fish that aren't necessarily tied to achievements and there are big fish that are which are requirements for achievements and fishing titles. These titles are super rare and actually difficult to get. It's a form of bragging rights.

A fish like Purse of Riches is tied directly tied to achievements. Every expansion us fishers get the expansion achievement title and like Big Fish and The Final Fish. You mentioned how a super rare fish is a cool idea. That's what a lot of big fish are especially when you consider the x.55 fish like Ruby Dragon, Cinder Surprise, and Sidereal Whale. They might not be down for down for months at a time, but even so I've known people to spend months if not years trying to catch just one of these 3 (myself included).

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Originally Posted by Carighan

I mean so long as the fish isn't needed for any quests or something, a super rare fish sounds cool, actually?


Plus let's not forget it's still on the quite easy/fast side of things to get, comparing actually difficult stuff like say, getting Insane in the Membrane in WoW back when it was first added

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Insane in the Membrane is a achievement according to a data tracking website that 3% of active players have. According to a site that tracks XIV achievements, Endwalker's fishing title "The Final Fish" is a title that is owned by 1.5% of players who track their titles/achievements. Shadowbringer's fishing title "Big Fish" is owned by 2.1% of players who track their titles/achievements. And again for XIV, this is is a site for people who track their achievements meaning these titles are even more rare when you include people who don't care about titles/achievements. Plus fishing titles have only gotten easier to get with each expansion.

But like I said before. I like to fish and I want to fish. I have caught every single fish in this game whether that's regular fish, big fish, spear fish, or ocean fish. Every. single. one. Aside from Purse, but fingers crossed at the upcoming window this month. I enjoy fishing because of the community and challenge and Purse of Riches is disappointing to me. It is rare because of a time gate and won't give any sense of bragging rights unlike other rare fish that have challenged and united us. Also this is only a x.4 fish. The difficult fish of this expansion haven't even been released yet.

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Originally Posted by Stelle

Insane in the Membrane is a achievement according to a data tracking website that 3% of active players have.

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Now, yes. You weren't around for late TBC / early WotLK, I take it? Insane in the Membrane (granting the "xyz the Insane"-title) was a very well-named achievement. It was made easier multiple times in WoW's lifetime, and still only 3% of active players have it, back then it required ~4-6 hours of farming each day for roughly 6 months, assuming you want weekends off.

(back to the topic I agree it should be its own achievement, just that fish, ideally give a title, too)

I only have a little experience in WoW so I'm honestly not familiar with it at all, but my partner was an OG WoW player and did get the achievement while it was current. This is what they told me when I asked them about how it compares to fishing achievements in XIV: :eek:

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"It was a grinding achievement and not hard to get. There's no research required and most people that got the achievement already had a good chunk of the progress done before the achievement came out. My guild would do stuff to gain rep for fun on the weekend for example. Getting insane in the membrane is more similar to getting the original relic weapons in XIV than it is to fishing achievements. Fishing achievements aren't grinding, they're research heavy, time sensitive, and luck + skill based."

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Even though I don't know much about WoW, I am still familiar with actively working towards achievements in XIV that take 6+ months if not years to accomplish not including fishing! c:

Anyway yes back to topic! In my opinion, I don't think Purse is interesting enough to warrant a title on it's own because it's difficulty isn't based on fishing. And it's kinda boring ^^;

It's difficulty is based on being able to make it to a window because of real world constraints the average person may have (ex. having a job, going to school, spending time with family/friends, sleep, game/life balance, etc.) Additionally, it's a only a straight catch. Even just adding an ambitious int would make this fish more interesting imo. However, if this really isn't a bugged fish, I'm guessing this is intentional because they wanted the "difficulty" to be getting to the fish window rather than actually fishing itself. Thus extending how long the average fisher is "progging" without having to actually fish. Maybe they wanted to try a different way to increase the rarity of a fish by making it less accessible to the average player. Some players might be able to go to a lot of windows, but the average player might only be able to go a handful times in a year.

However I'm not sure what the bite rate is. I've heard people say it's easy to catch so maybe the average player will be able to catch it within a year after a few windows of attempts, but idk. I've also had my fair share of terrible luck with "easy to catch" fish lol. I went to the previous window and there were a decent amount of us considering how early it was and a few people caught it including one person who caught it twice. I'm really curious what the bite rate of the fish is, but at this point I think we only have data from two windows. :confused:

We'll have to wait and see!

Edit: I dont think I was clear on what I meant when I brought up the idea of legendary fishing. I don't want Purse to be separate from Big Fishing, but if XIV decides to continue with intentionally increasing rarity of fish by making them significantly less accessible to the average fisher I think I'd like them to put those fish in their own category outside of Big Fishing, but idk. Purse is unlike any other fish we've experienced so far so it's new ground.

Yeah that's how I understood it. I'd even go as far as having some insanely crazy rare fish - like this - be their own unique achievement + maybe even a title. No material impact, cool for bragging rights.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Now, yes. You weren't around for late TBC / early WotLK, I take it? Insane in the Membrane (granting the "xyz the Insane"-title) was a very well-named achievement. It was made easier multiple times in WoW's lifetime, and still only 3% of active players have it, back then it required ~4-6 hours of farming each day for roughly 6 months, assuming you want weekends off.

(back to the topic I agree it should be its own achievement, just that fish, ideally give a title, too)

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I was around during late TBC / early WotLK, and even had a friend decide to grind for the Insane title prior to any of the nerfs. While it definitely was a grindy title, it was something that you could essentially work on at every moment (and you could even speed it up by throwing copious amounts of gold at it). You put in the time for those 6-ish months, you get your title. In comparison, The Final Fish could easily take you just as many months (or less, if you're extremely lucky), simply because you're not guaranteed to get a big fish to bite.
The 3% vs. 1.5% is kinda hard to compare too, considering the Insane's 3% is based on a larger number of players (data taken from the Blizzard API) vs. the Final Fish's 1.5% from players that specifically made a profile on ffxivcollect (with that 1.5% being 4129 characters).


At the end of the day, both titles are incredibly rare for different reasons.

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Originally Posted by Stelle

If we are going to have extremely rare fish wish huge amounts of downtime, I think I would want to see that as a separate category from Big fish? Maybe legendary fish (fishing ultimate) and there's like one an expansion with it's own achievement(s).

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Legendary fish already exist and are already a classification of fish - that is, they are the last fish added in the expansion in the X.55 (or equivalent) patch. Ruby Dragon, Opabinia, Namitaro, Cinder Surprise, Unconditional, Shonisaurus - these are all legendary fish. They do not need their own achievement. Fabled Legendary Fish also exist, for what it's worth. Those are the blue-background legendary fish like Sothis, Glass Dragon, Jewel of Plum Spring, Elasmosaurus, Sea Faring Toad, etc.

Additionally, why? What value does a separate achievement for "long downtime" fish provide? What does it do? What would you define as a long downtime fish? The achievements themselves are fine as-is.

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Originally Posted by Stelle

There's regular fish that aren't necessarily tied to achievements and there are big fish that are which are requirements for achievements and fishing titles...

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For clarification on this for those who don't fish - all fish in the 'overworld' (not diadem, cosmic exploration) and ocean fishing contribute to titles, achievements, items, etc. Big fish included. It's the "I Caught That" series of achievements. The "Go Big or Go Home" (and variants) series are tied specifically to big and legendary fish from each expansion.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Not everything needs to be exclusively for achievement hunters and album collectors. A fish can just be super super rare and hence virtually nobody will have it.

Why is this fish something a fisher has to have?

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(This is not directly a response to you, Carighan, just more that I'm answering your question to broadly address some trends in this thread so far)
Fishing is a completely optional and you-do-it-because-you-want-to-not-have-to piece of content in the game. No one needs the fish, but many would want it. The issue I see - even in this thread - is the bewildering and completely weird idea that it needs to be gotten now. There is no rush, there is no immediately need right now, and there is absolute reason anyone should be pushing for Purse of Riches right now. It's not going anywhere, it's not a race*, it is not time limited availability like the diadem titles were. You can choose not to get it for a year and nothing about your day to day will be impacted. The perceived rush to get any fish immediately, quickly, and easily is counter to the core design of fisher in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Stelle

Also this is only a x.4 fish. The difficult fish of this expansion haven't even been released yet...

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I'm also seeing a lot of comparing Purse of Riches to the likes of Ruby Dragon or Cinder Surprise within the context of 'taking ""years"" to catch'. I'm also seeing this comment a lot about 'oh it's only .4 what horrors will the .5 fish bring???'

The former comment is not a great comparison to make. There has been 0 (ZERO) indication or evidence that Purse of Riches will reach anywhere near the level of length as Ruby or Cinder might take even in the usually exaggerated timelines people give (as is tradition with fishing, "years" to catch fish is rarely if ever actually 'years'). It's an empty equivalency. Additionally, the X.4 fish have never been a bellweather for the upcoming .5 fish frequency or state. There is some patterns we've seen in the past where we see "downtime" fish come up in .4 patches (like Bobgoblin Bass), but we also see them in other patches as well. While the patches do progress from more common to more rare, that is not a hard metric or pattern that can nor should be adhered to. For example, the we got one of, if not the lowest, uptime fish in patch Endwalker patch 6.3 (Vidyutvat Wrasse), but didn't see anything as infrequent until 6.55 (Furcacuada, and even then that's cheating with its 90s window).


The goal of this thread was to discuss fish infrequency, not the convenience of getting titles or achievements or even if it's necessary to do so quickly (it's not). I would ask we continue on that topic. What alternatives to infrequent fish would be good to see (or have already been seen) in the future?

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Originally Posted by Fruity_Snacks

What alternatives to infrequent fish would be good to see (or have already been seen) in the future?

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We haven’t had an always-up big fish since Shadowbringers. ARR through Shadowbringers, there were big fish with no window conditions. Often these fish hate rarer bite rates and/or a high chance of slipping the hook, to compensate for the constant availability. I enjoy the combination of always up with a high slip rate, like Dammroen Herring or the Matriarch. It’s nice to have a fish that I can attempt whenever I have the time for it, and if I decide to take a break from my attempts, I can come back whenever I want, whenever is convenient for me, to continue.

I would far rather have another Dammroen Herring, always available and voraciously snapping up my premium scrip bait only to have a 90% or greater chance to slip, than a fish like Purse of Riches, that is a straightforward fishing experience that I can only go for a handful of times in a year.

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Originally Posted by Fruity_Snacks

Legendary fish already exist and are already a classification of fish - that is, they are the last fish added in the expansion in the X.55 (or equivalent) patch. Ruby Dragon, Opabinia, Namitaro, Cinder Surprise, Unconditional, Shonisaurus - these are all legendary fish. They do not need their own achievement.

Additionally, why? What value does a separate achievement for "long downtime" fish provide? What does it do? What would you define as a long downtime fish? The achievements themselves are fine as-is.

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I'm going to repost something I said earlier:

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Originally Posted by Stelle

Edit: I dont think I was clear on what I meant when I brought up the idea of legendary fishing. I don't want Purse to be separate from Big Fishing, but if XIV decides to continue with intentionally increasing rarity of fish by making them significantly less accessible to the average fisher I think I'd like them to put those fish in their own category outside of Big Fishing, but idk. Purse is unlike any other fish we've experienced so far so it's new ground.

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Again, I understand that I was unclear, but as I’ve stated a couple times I am not interested in a separate category simply because a fish has a long downtime. The achievements themselves are fine. I am concerned about XIV using Purse to test the waters with how much downtime they can put between windows and if we'll be seeing more fish with longer average downtimes. The time between windows, an average of 19.5 real world days, makes this fish significantly less accessible to the average fisher because of it's downtime alone. And that's not taking it's rarity/catch rate which I have no idea what that is.

The reason I brought up .5 and .55 fish was because I was discussing how long it can take to catch a fish even if a fish is up more frequently and difficulty/rarity because difficulty/rarity was being discussed. The other reason is because looking at a fish with more downtime impacts other aspects of fishing including rarity and accessibility. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for someone to be concerned with how long a fish will take them to catch, especially when they’re being time-gated by months at a time. And it’s not like fishers who have full time jobs and irl responsibilities are unfamiliar or automatically resentful with the fact that fishing may take them longer than someone else who works from home or is unemployed. I think there can be longer windows between windows or other ways to increase the rarity of fish without causing as much frustration and strife within the fishing community.

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Originally Posted by Fruity_Snacks

I'm also seeing a lot of comparing Purse of Riches to the likes of Ruby Dragon or Cinder Surprise within the context of 'taking ""years"" to catch'. I'm also seeing this comment a lot about 'oh it's only .4 what horrors will the .5 fish bring???'

The former comment is not a great comparison to make. There has been 0 (ZERO) indication or evidence that Purse of Riches will reach anywhere near the level of length as Ruby or Cinder might take even in the usually exaggerated timelines people give (as is tradition with fishing, "years" to catch fish is rarely if ever actually 'years'). It's an empty equivalency.

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I think with more challenging and rare fish (like .5 and .55 fish or even blue-backed ocean fish, there is an expectation that those fish can and probably will take longer to catch even if you go to every window.

For Sidereal, it took me about a stack of stardust & 6 months of actively fishing. I was able to make most windows at the time. A friend of mine took about 3 times longer when you don't include breaks and well over a stack of stardust. Placodus I think took me around 8 months? However, I do know people who have spent literal years trying to get Cinder, Ruby, and Whale. Cabinkeep despite not having a low bite rate and a ton of uptime still took me about 300 casts to catch. Meanwhile someone else I knew caught every single big fish that was currently available within a few months. Yes, some people joke how long it's taken them to catch a fish, but for others that is their lived experience.

I mentioned these fish just to point out luck. Uptime, downtime, rarity, etc. At the end of the day, it boils down to luck sometimes.

I have a friend who’s first 3 Purse attempt windows are April, August, November/December. Normally I’d say catching a fish within 3 windows is great! But a time commitment of 15 minutes over 11 months isn’t so great imo. I understand why someone would be frustrated about that. Even if the fish isn’t difficult to catch, that’s still more time invested into one fish than any fish I’ve personally fished for. It would have nothing to do with a lack of effort, skill, or or even bad luck unless you consider having a job bad luck.

Luck, good or bad, is also a huge part of the fishing experience imo and hard to separate. I go into fishing knowing it’s a balance of time commitment, knowledge, and luck and I enjoy that about it. Good luck on a fish like Purse could still be a huge time commitment for fishers, but bad luck on Purse could be devastating.

Maybe I’m being overly concerned over the experience of a few and the idea of a theoretical issue. I apologize for getting off topic and discussing how infrequency impacts other aspects of fishing instead of focusing on infrequency itself and potential alternatives. It wasn’t my intention to derail your conversation T-T

Just to echo everyone here I am in agreement that what feels like excessive downtime between windows is not good for the job.

I got into big fish fishing when I decided I wanted to fill out my fishing log. As I slowly worked my way through I'd focus for a bit then I'd take a break. I never felt like I was missing out on anything because there was always another fish. Always another window. Now I'm basically caught up with fishing. I'm just missing two fish right now and only one am I concerned about. That's Purse of Riches. Not because it seems like it will be hard to catch but because I'm not sure when I get to catch it. I've experienced waiting for a fish who took a vacation. I had to wait a month once I realized more about fishing for an attempt at Bobgoblin Bass. That was fine I knew I'd get a chance and if I didn't get a catch? The next window was not that far off. Looking at when Purse is up I get an attempt this month as the time the window is open works with my life and I can go however looking at further windows only a window in May works around a healthy sleep schedule for my time zone and not interfering with anything else. I can only imagine how that looks for others are affected.

Infrequent windows to make a fish rare isn't the way to do it. If they had wanted a rare weather condition? I think it being up anytime there was that weather conditon would have been better or at the VERY least having the fish up for much longer then 5 real minutes. These kind of horror stories don't inspire new fishers if anything it might scare them away. I heard about Ruby Dragon, Warden of the Seven Hues, Lancetfish and Cinder Surprise I wasn't intimidated that they were rare bites, took time to prepare or had longer time between when I could attempt them. I got excited at trying for them and when I caught them I felt triumphant. Now I'm just praying my luck is good for purse so I don't have to worry that it will take a year to catch not because it's a challenge but because I can't get to a window.

the fish currently counts towards no achievement and has virtually no benefit. There will be a new fishing title in half a year and that gives more than enough opportunities to catch it

its a straight catch and it only needs the lowest amounts of layers of rng to get (simply bite and dont escape). There are much worse fish to get than this one, which 80% of people will most likely get 1st try

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Originally Posted by Fruity_Snacks

What alternatives to infrequent fish would be good to see (or have already been seen) in the future?

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I'd personally like to see fish that make more use of refresh. It's a really neat mechanic to extend intuition lengths that I've made use of in other contexts, like with the Fabled Legends in Ocean Fishing, but I don't think there's really any fish in Dawntrail yet that capitalize on its introduction. Perhaps that will be introduced with the legendaries in the .5 patch, but it would be neat to see it on non-legendaries as well. We've had three intuition fish introduced in Dawntrail already in Shin Snuffler, Esperance Carp, and Gigagiant Snakehead, and if their windows weren't so short I think they could have been great candidates to see that mechanic at play.

I also really like that they've been having us use the lures for fish like Thunderswift Trout and Datnioides Aeroplanos. It's a really interesting way to mix things up without deviating too much from the standard straight cast you typically see. It's relatively minor but it does add an extra element of GP management since you'll be spending about 60 GP per cast in addition to 100 if you chum. It's not that extra challenging but I think the fact that only 6(?) Big Fish thus far make use of it is a shame. I'd love to see more!

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Originally Posted by RareBirdAlert

We haven’t had an always-up big fish since Shadowbringers. ARR through Shadowbringers, there were big fish with no window conditions. Often these fish hate rarer bite rates and/or a high chance of slipping the hook, to compensate for the constant availability. I enjoy the combination of always up with a high slip rate, like Dammroen Herring or the Matriarch. It’s nice to have a fish that I can attempt whenever I have the time for it, and if I decide to take a break from my attempts, I can come back whenever I want, whenever is convenient for me, to continue.

I would far rather have another Dammroen Herring, always available and voraciously snapping up my premium scrip bait only to have a 90% or greater chance to slip, than a fish like Purse of Riches, that is a straightforward fishing experience that I can only go for a handful of times in a year.

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Also more of this please yes yes. Dammroen Herring might be my enemy but the sense of achievement I got when I finally caught it was almost as much as when I caught a Legendary.

EDIT: I'd also like to state for the record that when attempting Purse of Riches's window tonight, I only had it bite once and it slipped. Just like I predicted it possibly could in my initial post about this.

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Originally Posted by NobleJanobii

All I feel is an extreme sense of fear and dread at the prospect that Purse of Riches slips from my grasp or never even bites, meaning that I would have disrupted my entire sleep cycle for nothing, and would have to do it all again a month later for another shot at it before August.

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This means without violating my usual sleep schedule, I would have no means to attempt Purse of Riches again for six months. All Big Fish have a 15% chance to escape so there is literally nothing that could be done about this, and I think that really highlights why its infrequency is a problem. While the windows coming up are likely more accessible to people outside NA, which is very fair considering this is an international game, this sort of thing could easily happen to an international player in EU, JP, or OCE when a batch of windows occurs that are inconvenient to them. When windows are a rarity, things like slips or simply not biting actively punish the player for things completely out of their control, and now I'm faced with either waiting half a year at another attempt (which could easily result in this same situation meaning I'd have to wait another three months at an attempt), or getting up at horrible hours just to attempt it.

That isn't fun. That isn't engaging. It's frustrating.

EDIT 2: Got up at 5 AM and didn't even have a nibble from it this time. Just adding to re-echo my sentiments and prove the points I've laid out above and in my original post.

Tonight was the second Purse window I was able to make, my first being the initial window it was discovered in, and between those two I only had it bite once tonight, at the very end of the window. I was lucky to catch it, but the overall vibes were... frantic, knowing that the next reasonable time I'd be able to make would be in another month following this already past month of downtime. There was no dopamine hit I usually get when I successfully catch a big fish (especially one as notorious as Purse has become), just a sense of exhaustion that I shouldn't be feeling on my second attempt ever.

I personally love downtime kings like Bobgoblin, but when a normie big fish has the potential to be unavailable for consecutively 1/4 of a year, not even including multiple month-long downtimes prior to that, it becomes very unreasonable and not as relaxing or fun as fishing should be.

Third window just complete. Not even a bite. It's really stupid to have a fish that shows up so rarely and when it finally is up it doesn't even bite

I recently started fishing and I know everyone enjoys different aspects of fishing, but I really struggle to see the appeal of long downtimes combined with low catch rates. It doesn’t make me feel like I need skill to catch them, just hope I get lucky with the layers of RNG stacked on top of each other. I'd rather the skills do more and actually take effort to catch it than rely purely on RNG.

I’m personally not upset about missing Purse because I’ll get it eventually. But I do think fishing is really unfriendly to a lot of players. I get that they can’t use fixed windows because of regional timing, but I don’t think the current approach is actually that fun. A lot of people I speak to don't go "Omg yay" they rather go "Omg finally it's over." I think RNG is fine in moderation, but when people say it took them years to get a single fish, that makes me feel like the system might be a little too much.

And the real‑life fishing argument I keep seeing used doesn’t really convince me about why it's even needed in the first place. We’re catching giant fish in small puddles, prehistoric animals and sharks with a flimsy fishing rod. Realism has long gone out the window.
Maybe they could tweak Fish Eyes to cost less GP and last longer that way atleast some of the older fish are a little easier. But right now, I don't know. It seems very difficult for someone to want to start their fishing journey and see six expansions of rare fish of which some have insanely long downtime windows or hearing multiple people say "This fish took me years." about multiple fish.

I'd like to echo the sentiment already captured by previous posters. I'm an adult, I work a 9-5 office job, I want to maintain a healthy relationship with this game such that I can enjoy it without it negatively affecting my sleep, health, or day to day life. I have a lot of fun fishing and I've made really good friends through helping others and them helping me. Even if this design was intentional, I don't think it's achieving the desired results across the playerbase. This game is a monthly subscription, and due to the design of this fish, you may go an entire subscription period without being able to interact with this fish. And I fully recognize that its designed to be a rare fish, however, this is simply hostile. There's 19 windows left in 2026, and the window lasts 5 minutes. So there's 135 minutes that this fish is catchable for the rest of the year. Nothing else in this game behaves like this. Prior to this fish, you'd have multiple opportunities per month, or per subscription period, to access the other rare fish. FFXIV usually prides itself in being accessible, and time gating to this degree is uniquely anomalous. I've observed an incredible amount of vitriolic frustration from other players who find this fish so categorically inaccessible that it's souring their opinion of this aspect of the game. Which, while hyperbole exists throughout the internet, in this regard it feels justified given that players feel like they're being denied an opportunity to engage with the game.

So I offer 3 suggestions:

1. Extend the duration of the window, 5 minutes is too short. If the window only appears once a month at least give us 20 minutes
2. Make the Purse of Riches exceedingly common during the window. I've attended 3 windows and haven't caught this fish. If the windows only appear for 5 minutes every month then the achievement of this fish is simply being able to attend it.
3. Add a second weather transition. This is basically just asking to make the fish appear more often. Clouds and Rain are the 2 most infrequent weather states in Tulliyolal, which is directly contributing to the rareness of this fish.

https://i.imgur.com/pBKkevR.png

I was lucky to be able to catch Purse of Riches near the end of the first window last evening (NA timezone), and didn't have to break my rule about waking up early for a fish to attend what would have been a 4:00am window for me. But my opinion remains that opportunities to catch this fish are too infrequent. With a more frequently available fish, it's less impactful to be missing windows due to work, sleep, or simply having something else you'd rather do. But with Purse of Riches, it feels like there is far more pressure to prioritize this fish, because of how long it might be before another attempt can be made, and I don't enjoy how that makes me feel, or how that makes fellow fishers feel.

This is a straight-catch fish that's somewhat shy and perhaps a bit slippery based on early numbers, with no intuition requirements, no need to fish skillfully for mooches, no special technique highlighting the use of Ambitious Lure for a clear advantage, no real strain on your GP if you maximize your resources ahead of time. And it is generating this much discussion, most of it negative. I'd rather see Dawntrail fishing be talked about for the amazing changes it brought to our fishing kit and how much fun they are because Ambitious/Modest Lure and Swimbait make fishing so active and engaging. Instead the conversation is dominated by a fish that is the opposite of engaging because of its downtime and lack of demand on kit usage. Unfortunately I think Purse of Riches will continue to be a large part of the Dawntrail fishing story, because even non-fishers are starting to hear about the "insane downtime rare fish," let alone the conversation it's sparked among the fishing playerbase.

The way I see it, fishing is somewhat unique content for two reasons. First, it is not schedule-agnostic: log progress can't be made whenever you want, and the schedule is determined by the game, not the player. This is fairly different from most of the other time-consuming achievements and such in the game, which can at least be worked on little by little whenever a player wishes. Second, even if you do everything right, you are not guaranteed the fish: this sets it apart from something like hunts, where even if a mark doesn't spawn for a long period of time, if you show up when it does spawn, you know for certain that you will get kill credit for it.

To be absolutely clear, I enjoy this about fishing and I'm glad it is like this. However, that also means its balance isn't really comparable to other content in the game: a 20 day average wait might be fine for hunts, but it is dramatically less so for fishing, especially with a fish that appears to be moderately uncommon even when it is available. I know quite a few people, myself included, that are going on 3-4 full windows with no catch.

Purse of Riches is unavailable for an average of 20 real-life days at a time. Assuming the average player spends 2/3 of their time at work, sleeping, eating, or otherwise doing anything that is not playing the game, that means most people only get one attempt every 2 months. This already feels bad, but it also averages multiple windows for a single catch, which makes it worse. For me, it crosses well over the line of healthy, fun friction into the territory of frustration and stress.

I've seen some people say that it's okay as long as it's just the one fish out of hundreds. The idea that one fish is widely-regarded as bad and upsets players for potentially months is fine because most people will only deal with it once is unsatisfying to me, which is why I'm so critical of this fish. To be specific about my perspective and the kind of player that I am: I intend to catch this fish multiples times regardless of what happens for data-collection purposes. I'm probably less emotionally invested in a first catch than most people. The availability of this fish is still rather disheartening for me. I understand that pushing variables and trying new things is fundamental in design, and that there is no precedent for a big fish being adjusted, but I do wish we could see some sort of response on this. I really, really love fishing in this game. I would like to love it even more!

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Originally Posted by BeansMcgee

I've seen some people say that it's okay as long as it's just the one fish out of hundreds. The idea that one fish is widely-regarded as bad and upsets players for potentially months is fine because most people will only deal with it once is unsatisfying to me, which is why I'm so critical of this fish.

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For me the benefit would be that we cover a spectrum. I would not want this to be the only fish with ridiculously insanely unlikely catching requirements, but also I would not want there to be a way to "entice" players to get this one (in particular).

So like:

• New category of fish, "Legendary fish", "Rumored fish", whatever.
• Do not count to 100% of the fishing log. In fact go >100% if you were to have enough.
• Only achievement is for catching any single one of them, there is 0 benefit to having multiple. This achievement gives no title, no mount, no nothing.
• Add 1 such fish per expansion, even retroactively. On average you can catch them ~4-5 times a year but the specific reasons might vary. Say one fish only exists during the opening day of a new extreme trial, another is based on RL weather at SQEX JP HQ, stuff like that. Really silly stuff, too.

It would entirely be for bragging rights. But ignoring such a hypothetical solution for a second I agree, they probably ought to change it a bit to also work at least on the reverse weather sequence, or make it independent of the daytime.

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

A lot of people I speak to don't go "Omg yay" they rather go "Omg finally it's over." I think RNG is fine in moderation, but when people say it took them years to get a single fish, that makes me feel like the system might be a little too much.

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From my perspective - a lot more people go "OMG Yay" rather than go "OMG finally it's over." Also, from what I (and others) have seen only maybe 2-3 instances of "it's taken me years to catch a fish" are actually true "it took me years to catch a fish" - a lot of the time it's a handful of windows over multiple years. This is why when I talk about how long it takes to catch a fish, I speak in windows, not timelines.

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

...And the real‑life fishing argument I keep seeing used doesn’t really convince me about why it's even needed in the first place. We’re catching giant fish in small puddles, prehistoric animals and sharks with a flimsy fishing rod. Realism has long gone out the window...

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The actual quote (because this likely started with me, since I took a FanFest quote and tied it to fishing) is "FFXIV is a fantasy game grounded in reality" - not implying that it's a realistic game, but it's a fantasy game with undertones of reality.

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

Maybe they could tweak Fish Eyes to cost less GP and last longer that way atleast some of the older fish are a little easier. But right now, I don't know. It seems very difficult for someone to want to start their fishing journey and see six expansions of rare fish

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Now this is actually a concern that I have as well, and Fish Eyes I think is a big key part of catch-up fish. Still, the average time it takes to catch all the fish (to date) hovers around a 3-4 months. It can take longer or shorter, but as more big fish are added, it's going to be a bigger and bigger thing to overcome. That said, Triple Triad, The Hunt (to a degree, sort of a weak example on my end) would also have similar issues.

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Originally Posted by Alfyn

...
So I offer 3 suggestions:

1. Extend the duration of the window, 5 minutes is too short. If the window only appears once a month at least give us 20 minutes
2. Make the Purse of Riches exceedingly common during the window. I've attended 3 windows and haven't caught this fish. If the windows only appear for 5 minutes every month then the achievement of this fish is simply being able to attend it.
3. Add a second weather transition. This is basically just asking to make the fish appear more often. Clouds and Rain are the 2 most infrequent weather states in Tulliyolal, which is directly contributing to the rareness of this fish.

-image snip-

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I think the main issue that I have with some fish in general, Purse included, is that its not engaging with the toolset we have now in Dawntrail. Fish like Punuity Pain, Ttokatoa, Gigagiant Snakehead (just for Dawntrail, at least) are all far more interesting because of what we got with the Dawntrail expansion, than just Purse. I want fishers to have to use their skills more often than not, rather than just showing up and slapping, chumming, and luring.

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Originally Posted by BeansMcgee

I understand that pushing variables and trying new things is fundamental in design, and that there is no precedent for a big fish being adjusted,

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There is, actually (and technically with Legendary fish). Patch 4.0 iirc adjusted the bite rates of various HW legendaries, like Opabinia and Charibenet.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

It would entirely be for bragging rights.

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And lot of fishing really already is about bragging rights. It's a completely optional thing you (the player in general) decide to do on your own.

Legendary fish already are a category and I don't agree in that we really need a new one (and not one at least Purse would fit into with other fish 'fairly'), all just to add more achievements or to make it so people can get the already small rewards for them as is easier. This thread isn't about how to make getting fishing achievements easier. The main focus is discussing fish frequency and possible alternatives that people would like to see in terms of mechanic usage that could achieve the same impact as very infrequent windows.

If Purse could be strongly influenced by Lures, it would be so much more interesting. I would still hate the downtime and consider it too excessive, but if it was a fish that clearly rewarded you for knowing your kit, I’d at least have grudging respect for the experience of fishing for it. Like if it was a small-jawed bite, in this fishing hole that would mean it would only compete with one other bite of the same type. Slap that one, use Modest Lure, and potentially you can get a guaranteed bite proc that could only be Purse, or without the proc at least strongly skew the chance of getting that bite. That would at least be interesting to do, after waiting a month (or several months) for your next attempt.

I am firmly in the camp that downtimes for Purse of Riches are excessively long. I would even say if the set spawning conditions were made intentionally and not in error, it is actively hostile to players. I have seen multiple US-based fishers mentioning that they cannot even make an attempt for months because of already infrequent windows falling during working or sleeping hours. I am lucky in that I can afford to ruin my sleep to be up for a five minute window and am home more often than not. But most people with jobs or school do not have that luxury. If the main difficulty of a fish is just being able to attend the window to catch it, I believe that is not engaging game design. Fish with catch requirements more complicated than a simple "slap and chum", or that are avid biters but slip easily are more interesting (and fun, in my opinion) than a fish that is just never available to catch.

In addition to the infrequent windows, Purse of Riches is far from a guaranteed catch. I've been to four windows so far, including the discovery window, and have not had a single bite. Perhaps I have particularly bad luck in this instance, but from discussions elsewhere I know I am far from alone in this situation. Waiting up to several months to make an attempt then not even having a bite feels very bad. I know there are mixed opinions on if it feels worse to have a slip or no bites at all, but for me personally I would at least like a slip as a "sign of life" so to speak. A slip means I was close to my goal! It got away but I have incentive to try again! Zero bites just feels like I ruined my sleep for nothing. Compounded after multiple windows is enough to make some players give up entirely and direct their energy elsewhere.

While no player is "owed" or "deserves" to catch a fish, they should at least have the reasonable opportunity to try. I want fish that challenge me to engage with my fishing kit. I want a fish I can fight, not one that makes me unsub for three months because it is taking a long nap. If a fish can't be attempted even once in a subscription cycle, I consider that a failure of design.

I have caught every fish in the game except Purse. My three windows have been: no bite, slip, and slip. Getting a slip in the middle of the night is not fun. This is the first fish window I have found to be too excessively infrequent and where missing a window feels bad. Waiting so long for the next chance is not fun.

The Devs' new choice to elongate the chance of a player being able to go fishing for a fish is a trend that goes against YoshiP's statement (Nov 2025) that you will try to value peoples' time in the future. I call it a trend because I have seen it everywhere in DT for different types of content. Here are examples of where the Devs have made the active choice of making players wait longer:

- FT and Quantum require grinding consumable items to get in;
- the items used to get into FT and Quantum are used against other players to lower their chances of getting in or lowering the amount of rewards earned by other party members;
- they made the FT achievement 100 clears instead of the usual 10 which causes some players to avoid helping other new players prog because they want the achievement;
- players compete in the new Bunny Fate for only a chance at a Pot and the fate was set to a longer fixed 30-minute cycle requiring more waiting and hoping you get a Pot within the larger growing crowd;
- Cosmic Exploration is reliant on the randomness of your World's population density and affinity for Crafting/Gathering to determine when you can see later zones (I'm still waiting for the only sequential fishing missions on Oizys to become available while others already have access to them);
- the DCs are in such a state that one must often go to other DCs to be able to find PFs or active Roulettes, provided the DC is even accessible (some new players even have trouble completing MSQs if they do not understand Data Centre Travel);
- we were told Chaotic would be slightly easier and that there were not enough resources for a Normal version of FT so less-skilled players either had to sign up for Discords a week ahead of time, take a lot more time to prog, or they had to give up after realizing they could not get through prog;
- the most recent Savage was tuned for Week-One Raiders in a way that globally lowered everyone else's stats going into the raids relative to past raids.

I then looked for counter examples. The only very positive thing I could think of where the Devs went out of their way and comfort zone to help save players' time in order to make players' gameplay experiences more inviting and enjoyable was the added matchmaking and added checkpoints in the Pilgrim's Traverse Deep Dungeon. This is the only sliver of healthy and successful light and hope for the future I have seen in DT gameplay system decisions so far. I hear the Criterion Dungeon might have something similar.

The trend of making players wait longer is rampant. Hopefully the trend of valuing players' time takes root and grows strong. Most players have busy lives and have to wait to play their games. Please don't make them have to wait excessively to play content within the game itself. There are more fun ways to make fish harder to catch besides passively waiting longer and longer wait times.

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Originally Posted by Hastatus

-snip for length-

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The other counterpoint is this is what players were asking for in Endwalker. If we can recall, a lot of the feedback around the variant dungeons and other bits and bobs that were added was "I could do it all in a week" - now we can't. That isn't to say "this is what we asked for" - but I can see why the FT achievement and bunny fate are the way they are. (I think the quantum thing is actually pretty cool, so going to disagree with you on that).

I don't think SE plans or wants to make it so that you NEED to spend 2-3 months doing a thing to get a thing, which is why all of what you pointed out are purely side pieces of content. Just like fishing, it's on the side and a 'if you want to engage with it you can, but if not that's fine. You don't miss any sort of progression." That's why fishing is the way it is - it's optional and you choose to engage with it. I keep bringing up the Heavensward Era fish - Bobgoblin Bass, Sea Butterfly, Charibenet, Flarefish, Second One - all as interesting ways of making fish engaging for longer, but not requiring infrequent windows. These are good fish.

Fish like SB or Chari feel rare, but they aren't terribly so if you look at the numbers. They are good because they are up often in smaller windows, and allow for skill expression to improve their uptime by maximizing intuition per window. And despite their somewhat common windows they can still take weeks to catch for the average fisher. That's good, engaging, fishing. Fish like Shin Snuffler or Esperance Carp could have been similar, but their intuitions and their windows don't allow for more than 1 int per window, that's not as great because the int just becomes prep time. If their ints were shorter OR their windows were longer - then we'd be looking at some great fish.

Options are there for sure, and I think going into 7.5 and especially 8.0, we're going to start to see things change for fishing.

That's a good point, a massive block of feedback about ShB and EW in general was "This is all done way too quick", which we now see the opposite of in fishes such as this have egregious fishing window restrictions or how grindy the paste for the combat relics is, nevermind what fishers suffer through on the exoplanets.

I do think overall though there are other ways to implement this sort of thing without introducing a window that's so infrequent it's egregious. Purse feels like an over-correction rather than proper implementation.

I don't mind waiting a bit on the fish if they're engaging like with Ruby Dragon or Ealad Skaan. Heck, one thing I'd really like to see is another instance of like the Warden where the fish is always up but its prerequisites for intuition aren't, so you have to try and utilize your skills to work around that. Fish Eyes especially becomes a bit of a fun gambling tool for that since it can help you get the one remaining fish you need for the int, but is the GP loss beforehand really worth it? Or is it better to just wait another half hour until the window opens again and hope you get the right mooch. Combo that with the lures and oh man you've got some fun potential there especially for a legendary.