We are the worst summoners of the whole franchise.

Playable summons of every mainline game:

FF3

Chocobo
Shiva
Ramuh
Ifrit
Titan
Odin
Leviathan
Bahamut

FF4

Asura
Bahamut
Bomb
Chocobo
Cockatrice
Goblin (Imp)
Ifrit
Leviathan
Mindflayer
Dragon (Mist)
Odin
Ramuh
Shiva
Sylph
Titan
Whyt

FF5

Chocobo
Remora
Sylph
Ifrit
Ramuh
Shiva
Catoblepas
Golem
Titan
Carbuncle
Odin
Syldra
Bahamut
Leviathan
Phoenix
Eggman

FF6

Alexander
Bahamut
Bismarck
Cait Sith
Carbuncle
Catoblepas
Crusader
Fenrir
Golem
Ifrit
Kirin
Lakshmi
Maduin
Midgardsormr
Odin
Phantom
Phoenix
Quetzalli
Ragnarok
Raiden
Ramuh
Seraph
Siren
Shiva
Unicorn
Valigarmanda
Zona Seeker
Cactuar
Diabolos
Gilgamesh
Leviathan

FF7

Alexander
Bahamut
Neo Bahamut
Bahamut ZERO
Choco/Mog
Hades
Ifrit
Leviathan
Knights of the Round
Kujata
Odin
Phoenix
Ramuh
Shiva
Titan
Typhon

FF8

Alexander
Bahamut
Brothers
Cactuar
Carbuncle
Cerberus
Diablos
Doomtrain
Eden
Ifrit
Leviathan
Quezacotl
Shiva
Siren
Pandemona
Tonberry
Angelo (arguably)
Odin
Gilgamesh
Phoenix
Boko
Mini Mog
Moomba

FF9

Dagger\\'s summons
Ramuh
Ifrit
Shiva
Atomos
Odin
Leviathan
Bahamut
Ark

Eiko\\'s summons
Fenrir and Titan
Phoenix
Carbuncle
Madeen

FF10

Valefor
Ifrit
Ixion
Shiva
Bahamut
Anima
Yojimbo
The Magus Sisters

FF11


Carbuncle
Fenrir
Diabolos
Ifrit
Titan
Leviathan
Garuda
Shiva
Ramuh
Alexander
Odin
Atomos
Cait Sith
Siren

FF12

Belias
Mateus
Adrammelech
Zalera
Shemhazai
Hashmal
Cúchulainn
Zeromus
Exodus
Famfrit
Chaos
Ultima
Zodiark

FF13

Odin
Shiva
Hecatoncheir
Brynhildr
Alexander
Bahamut

Now, in contrast, in FF14, we have:

Carbuncle
Ifrit
Titan
Garuda
Bahamut
Phoenix
Solar Bahamut

While I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment, we cannot overlook the abomination that is FF15's "summoning", as much as I like to pretend it doesn't exist.
Though I would concur that FF16 doesn't count for having a Summoning system. Which is probably why the game in general plays most like FF14's (barely-Summoning) Summoner.

Since FF13, summoners having been downgraded at each iteration.

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Originally Posted by Brandr

Since FF13, summoners having been downgraded at each iteration.

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Why put that on FF13? They have pretty interesting mechanics, unique designs, and are actually useful (especially for AOEing groups of enemies, toppling large-sized lategame enemies or when you need I-Frames or a heal/revive) and are used in the speed run.

Now FF12's summons, those are truly worthless. Practically 0 reason to ever Summon unless you just want to admire their design. If you want to argue that Summoners have seen nothing but downgrades, you'd have to start there (though I'd disagree; FF7 Remake + Rebirth handled Summons nicely IMO).

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Originally Posted by jrollins89

Why put that on FF13? They have pretty interesting mechanics, unique designs, and are actually useful (especially for AOEing groups of enemies, toppling large-sized lategame enemies or when you need I-Frames or a heal/revive) and are used in the speed run.

Now FF12's summons, those are truly worthless. Practically 0 reason to ever Summon unless you just want to admire their design. If you want to argue that Summoners have seen nothing but downgrades, you'd have to start there (though I'd disagree; FF7 Remake + Rebirth handled Summons nicely IMO).

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I'm saying it's a downgrading in quantity.

Ah, fair enough. I misunderstood and had to glaze FF13 a bit.

But yeah, FF14 could definitely do with more (non-Bahamut) summons. No shortage of candidates who already have models to choose from in this game.

not to say the job could use more summons since that seemed like the point of the EW rework, but rating the different incarnations of the job based on that alone seems a bit silly

I want quality over quantity and more to do than spam gemshine most of the fight but if i had to pick quantity heres my wishlist.

In terms of more summons i want the gems to rotate like phoenix and bahamut.
Phoenix can grant us shiva, ramuh and leviathan gems.

Maybe solar bahamut can give us 3 gems that have 4 summons in a row each. Im thinking the 12 espers from the ivalice .

Lunar phoenix can do the same thing but give us 4 of THE twelve from the last 24 man for each gem.

That will be the only thing that makes me tolerate solar bahamut and the potential lUnAr PhEeNiks . I hate solar baha's design and lunar phoneix would make me so mad if thats all summoner gets

How many of these games built half their lore around the fact that summoning is incredibly dangerous and summoning of simulacrum is a maths equation and not just vomitting out as much magic as possible

Seriously do people actually want consistent lore in this game or do they just want to cosplay their favourite characters from old FF games without actually going back and playing said games

Like if you are dying for how strong rydia is then FF4 is right there

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

not to say the job could use more summons since that seemed like the point of the EW rework, but rating the different incarnations of the job based on that alone seems a bit silly

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So you're satisfied with 7 summons?

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

How many of these games built half their lore around the fact that summoning is incredibly dangerous and summoning of simulacrum is a maths equation and not just vomitting out as much magic as possible

Seriously do people actually want consistent lore in this game or do they just want to cosplay their favourite characters from old FF games without actually going back and playing said games

Like if you are dying for how strong rydia is then FF4 is right there

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Job lore for summoner was weird and boring tbh. Allagan soldiers that used books to simulate the primals the enslaved as power plants? The job quest were forgettable after level 50 and I found d arcanist and scholare lore far more interesting.

Summoner is at least more comparable to its in lore description than scholar now. Scholar was a battle tactician with fairy heals. Poisons and shields. Now it's literally white mage with a book and shields and I despise the de evolution. Get rid of the angel transformation. Replace it with a mechanically identical super mode that better fits the scholar aesthetic.

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Originally Posted by Brandr

So you're satisfied with 7 summons?

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I'm not satisfied with your reading comprehension at least

Side note but God i miss bane as a skill on both arcanost jobs, especially scholar

I mean they could at least give like an ogcd where Leviathan or Ramuh pop out or something. Don’t Ramuh-Egi models literally already exist in the game files as enemies from one of the trials?

Like obviously it’s not going to be comparable to a single player game but like they could at least throw us a shard of a bone lol

Also let’s be real Summoner would be absolutely ass if it’s stuck with the exact same 3 summons using the exact same barely-different-except-Ifrit abilities and summoning the exact same cavalcade of Bahamuts, for the entirety of FFXIV’s lifespan, whatever that ends up being. Like, sooner or later it’s gonna need new summons (please god not another Bahamut), unless we want to hit level 150 still using effectively the same rotation as we did at like 60-70, plus/minus some oGCDs

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

I'm not satisfied with your reading comprehension at least

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Wow! What a troll! Nice rage bait there, kid!

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Originally Posted by Connor

I mean they could at least give like an ogcd where Leviathan or Ramuh pop out or something. Don’t Ramuh-Egi models literally already exist in the game files as enemies from one of the trials?

Like obviously it’s not going to be comparable to a single player game but like they could at least throw us a shard of a bone lol

Also let’s be real Summoner would be absolutely ass if it’s stuck with the exact same 3 summons using the exact same barely-different-except-Ifrit abilities and summoning the exact same cavalcade of Bahamuts, for the entirety of FFXIV’s lifespan, whatever that ends up being. Like, sooner or later it’s gonna need new summons (please god not another Bahamut), unless we want to hit level 150 still using effectively the same rotation as we did at like 60-70, plus/minus some oGCDs

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I completely agree with you!
Every job, with few exceptions, in this game has been a homage to a character of the Final Fantasy franchise, but I think Summoner is the most iconic of all.
Since its introduction in FF4, it has been a fan favorite, to the point the whole plot of FFX and FFXVI are about Summoners!
In FFIX we had the co-protagonist being a summoner alongside a party member, and in FFVIII, every member of the party is a summoner!!

Hell, in ARR intro cutscene, Louisoix defeated Bahamut using Summoning powers!

This job should be worth of more love and dedication!

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Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain

Job lore for summoner was weird and boring tbh. Allagan soldiers that used books to simulate the primals the enslaved as power plants? The job quest were forgettable after level 50 and I found d arcanist and scholare lore far more interesting.

Summoner is at least more comparable to its in lore description than scholar now. Scholar was a battle tactician with fairy heals. Poisons and shields. Now it's literally white mage with a book and shields and I despise the de evolution. Get rid of the angel transformation. Replace it with a mechanically identical super mode that better fits the scholar aesthetic.

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Yeah now we have exactly the same lore except it’s tied to a job that no longer relates to it at all so we have the worst of both worlds

Repeating the AST quest problem I really don’t think is a desirable result

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Yeah now we have exactly the same lore except it’s tied to a job that no longer relates to it

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Didn’t they literally say outright ‘we don’t make abilities that are consistent with job lore’…because they don’t make job lore anymore lol? I think that ship has sailed sadly considering we have: Seraphism, Radiant Finale, Solar Bahamut, basically every AST card, to name a few lore breaking abilities.

‘Lore’ has absolutely no bearing on job/class design anymore, I guess because ‘there’s too many jobs’ for it to be feasible. One has to question why in the ever loving fuck they would keep adding classes when they literally cannot handle even the most basic aspects of the existing ones (what is it), but here we are lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain

Summoner is at least more comparable to its in lore description than scholar now. Scholar was a battle tactician with fairy heals. Poisons and shields. Now it's literally white mage with a book and shields and I despise the de evolution. Get rid of the angel transformation. Replace it with a mechanically identical super mode that better fits the scholar aesthetic.

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Yeah that's really utterly random, that angel mode.

I mean at the very least have that actually be the effect of Seraph, evolve your fairy into some angel-fairy (but still a pet), and now your spells are slightly stronger because Seraph does a copy effect every time you cast something or so. Super-fairy-mode, after all.

Make it pet-based! -.-

Even without going back to the pet job design it still gets me how they didn't do the most obvious option of adding 3 more summons after Phoenix and instead slapped in Solar Bahamut. Ramuh, Shiva, and Leviathan there seemed like a no-brainer.

Though considering how Shiva is in XIV I kinda perfer them be a transformation type like Seraphism or Enshroud. A hydaelyn-shiva hybrid transformation like Eden Shiva as the lv100 would've been pretty hype imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

Even without going back to the pet job design it still gets me how they didn't do the most obvious option of adding 3 more summons after Phoenix and instead slapped in Solar Bahamut. Ramuh, Shiva, and Leviathan there seemed like a no-brainer.

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In particular because:

• The models exist already, including animations for their big attacks.
• The design of I/T/G means that any new set of 3 minor summons can "cleanly" slot in, needing very little new design and creativity.
• Nobody, absolutely nobody, asked for or wants Temu Bahamut. It feels like someone hacked the game and added their OC Bahamut clone as a self-insert.

When I posted the idea that each "set" of 3 minors ideally had a theme (say one is all line AoEs, one is all forced movement, etc etc), what you mention about Shiva is another cool idea, one is a set where you become the summon for 2-4 attacks!