Housing for All

since our goodly cooperate masters are willing to offer an ear as of late this is now the perfect chance for me to yell loudly into the microphone.

enough is ENOUGH Square Enix! everyone deserves a house an plot of land stop abusing your playerbase an stop feeding the addicts retire the ward system its done its over other games are advancing YOU have no excuses left to say to that an they are mocking your design for housing in particular.

you learned a valuable lesson from island sanctuary as a structure now take what you have learned from that an take what you have from the apartment system which out fills new space after caps are reached and ADD a single/solo player instance housing system this will cut back on your costs an your storage spaces if everyone owns a house the problem will be resolved an you'll never have to hear about it again nor keep pouring resources into it outside the occasional new furnishings an house skins.
you have nothing to lose an everything to gain from such a new system.

let players have their own little space to customize as they see fit with any house size they want it to be you'll eliminate two birds with one stone there will be no more gripes or moaning at how bad your system is and there will be no shortages of supply and you can shut off inactive instances to preserve optimal performance. no one loses everyone wins done and dusted now lets see you get this done once and for all.

Instanced housing would be great. We can start off with a small, and spend gil to upgrade it inside and out to a medium and then to a large, too! And then no one has to worry about the auto demo timer and the current housing places could be used for free companies only if need be. I will happily let my medium lot get dismantled in an overhaul of the housing system so long as I get my furniture back and everybody gets their own house. I wouldn't even care if I don't get the gil I spent into getting the plot of land back!

The current housing system is a nightmare and just isn't fun.

for years i've hoped to see apartment update, where you could choose s/m/l interior from the normal houses for your apartment -- in addition to the xs fc room size currently only available.
should siphon at least some money out of economy...

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

for years i've hoped to see apartment update, where you could choose s/m/l interior from the normal houses for your apartment -- in addition to the xs fc room size currently only available.
should siphon at least some money out of economy...

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yeah they should redo apartments too make them a more viable alternative if people don't want a neighborhood or house etc. in another thread i proposed the idea of making apartments like the equivalent of a penthouse style apartment with an outdoor balcony so that people can place some outdoor furnishings on the patio deck with in reason of course obviously item size restrictions would be in place to prevent clipping or instance crashing etc. but i think people would be content with that having both an indoor suite and an outdoor sitting/afking spot for their apartment

Wards aren't the problem; a limited number of wards is. WoW and LOTRO both have ward like systems and neither have a housing shortage because they open more up as needed to meet demand. I would rather have neighbors who designs I can enjoy then an instance I am all alone in. It would be extra cool if a FC could claim a ward like in WoW, so my friends could be my neighbors.

I would be cool with them redesigning the wards to have same sized plots so players can put any size house they want on it.

They should also allow Apartment to change the interiors like they are going to do for houses.

While Instanced Housing would be fantastic, do we seriously think SE has the infrastructure to support it?


The budget XIV gets is on the smaller scale for MMO's.

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Originally Posted by iMaximusRex

Wards aren't the problem; a limited number of wards is. WoW and LOTRO both have ward like systems and neither have a housing shortage because they open more up as needed to meet demand. I would rather have neighbors who designs I can enjoy then an instance I am all alone in. It would be extra cool if a FC could claim a ward like in WoW, so my friends could be my neighbors.

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Afaik though, WoW’s wards are instanced and not permanently loaded like ours are in XIV. So that’s likely why they’re able to just spin up new neighborhoods on demand, whereas we have to worry about server drain.

I really like WoW’s take on the neighborhood idea though. Being able to create them with friends or FCs would be so nice, and the activities sound fun. Here, you’re lucky to win a house at all, let alone live near anyone you actually know or play with. Our wards are pretty much ghost towns, either because no one is spending any time there, or you’re not in the same time zone as your neighbors, etc.

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

Afaik though, WoW’s wards are instanced and not permanently loaded like ours are in XIV. So that’s likely why they’re able to just spin up new neighborhoods on demand, whereas we have to worry about server drain.

I really like WoW’s take on the neighborhood idea though. Being able to create them with friends or FCs would be so nice, and the activities sound fun. Here, you’re lucky to win a house at all, let alone live near anyone you actually know or play with. Our wards are pretty much ghost towns, either because no one is spending any time there, or you’re not in the same time zone as your neighbors, etc.

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What are neighborhoods going to fundamentally change If the player base themselves don't want to be out in a isolated instance.

wards are empty because the aggregate player base does not find housing that high on the priority list.

Why is the wards empty, is my question?

Why do players not want to spend time in the ward system?

How would a neighborhood system change this when players already don't like isolation? Players spend the majority of their time in the hubs. How will the neighborhood system change that priority from the hub space to the neighborhood? Because realistically I don't think it's going to change anything. The players are still going to prefer the social mixing pot of the hubs over isolated neighbourhoods any day of the week

At a baseline, just allowing apartments to be resized internally when they add that to housing, and hopefully figuring out indoor gardening for real so they can actually update that feature again, would be nice.

Wards as they are now, are just completely pointless. I have had an FC and personal house since they were established and I have had a total of 1 positive interaction with another player. If they want to keep the wards they need to take a note from WoW and give us ward based activities that require cooperation and give us meaningful rewards for completing them. As it stands now there is zero reason to keep this rushed and poorly designed system in place. Just because Yoshi PR likes wards, doesn't mean they are good for the game or even liked by the player basen and it's about time he realizes that and takes the L so players can have what they actually want. They don't even need to get rid of wards, just give us instanced housing as an option. I would move to an instanced ward in a heartbeat.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Wards as they are now, are just completely pointless. I have had an FC and personal house since they were established and I have had a total of 1 positive interaction with another player. If they want to keep the wards they need to take a note from WoW and give us ward based activities that require cooperation and give us meaningful rewards for completing them. As it stands now there is zero reason to keep this rushed and poorly designed system in place. Just because Yoshi PR likes wards, doesn't mean they are good for the game or even liked by the player basen and it's about time he realizes that and takes the L so players can have what they actually want. They don't even need to get rid of wards, just give us instanced housing as an option. I would move to an instanced ward in a heartbeat.

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People spend the majority of their time in hub cities , or one of the city hubs , what's changing the housing system going to do if the players are still going to spend the majority of their time in the hubs anyway?

Change the housing system and the players are still not going to want to spend time in an instance isolated area.

I think people forget how niche housing actually is. It's not that high on the priority list for most players.

Do you honestly think players are going to prefer doing quest for their housing rather than spending time in the general area where most people congregate?

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Originally Posted by Solowing

What are neighborhoods going to fundamentally change If the player base themselves don't want to be out in a isolated instance.

wards are empty because the aggregate player base does not find housing that high on the priority list.

Why is the wards empty, is my question?

Why do players not want to spend time in the ward system?

How would a neighborhood system change this when players already don't like isolation? Players spend the majority of their time in the hubs. How will the neighborhood system change that priority from the hub space to the neighborhood? Because realistically I don't think it's going to change anything. The players are still going to prefer the social mixing pot of the hubs over isolated neighbourhoods any day of the week

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/agree

Move all housing wards to Balmung Quicksands.

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Originally Posted by Solowing

People spend the majority of their time in hub cities , or one of the city hubs

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If that is the case this game is in a lot more trouble than we thought. A few dozen ppl around the aetheryte in LL may look like a lot in that limited space, but if that is the majority of the playerbase than this game's population is so small I wonder how they keep it afloat.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

If that is the case this game is in a lot more trouble than we thought. A few dozen ppl around the aetheryte in LL may look like a lot in that limited space, but if that is the majority of the playerbase than this game's population is so small I wonder how they keep it afloat.

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Of course , a lot of players are around engaging with content. What I'm saying, those who just want to relax and enjoy a social experience tend to hang in the major city hubs.Because there's a lot of emergent interactions that are going on there. It's a virtual crossroads.

We are a social creature we like interactions, but the ward system isnt in a crossroad area. Had they been integrated into the city hubs? Oh yeah , you see a lot more interaction and use because its front facing and people wanna feel apart of it.

I do like housing , but the hunger on the forum doesnt match up to the hunger for it ingame. People are gonna say.Housing is as high of a priority as they think it is.Then the data needs to reflect that. Take a walk through several wards and keep asking yourself if people are so hungry for housing , why is it so empty in what's available?

Why does the forum say one thing? And in game shows another?

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Originally Posted by Solowing

Of course , a lot of players are around engaging with content. What I'm saying, those who just want to relax and enjoy a social experience tend to hang in the major city hubs.Because there's a lot of emergent interactions that are going on there. It's a virtual crossroads.

We are a social creature we like interactions, but the ward system isnt in a crossroad area. Had they been integrated into the city hubs? Oh yeah , you see a lot more interaction and use because its front facing and people wanna feel apart of it.

I do like housing , but the hunger on the forum doesnt match up to the hunger for it ingame. People are gonna say.Housing is as high of a priority as they think it is.Then the data needs to reflect that. Take a walk through several wards and keep asking yourself if people are so hungry for housing , why is it so empty in what's available?

Why does the forum say one thing? And in game shows another?

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Here's the thing - how do we know that housing is empty (even when almost every plot is owned) when the majority of housing takes place inside the house/apartment and not outside in the ward?

We may be social creatures overall but we also have occasions when we want to be away from the crowds, with some players feeling that need more often than other players.

Further more, the hub cities tend to have only one active "instance" going except at expansion launch. That means players that want to be in a city like Limsa are all being funneled into the same Limsa. On the other hand, players that want to be in Mist are being divided between 60 different instances just from wards/subdivisions alone or potentially up to 7200 instances if you break it down to houses and apartments. If there are 200 players that want to be in the sole Limsa and 200 players that want to be in their personal/FC housing in Mist, which is going to look busier? Limsa, of course, but that doesn't mean there are fewer players in Mist.

If there were 60 separate instances of Limsa running, with the game trying to spread players going to Limsa evenly between those instances, would it look any different from what one usually sees in a Mist ward?

I've pointed this out many times in the past. The current ward system does not offer a good visual in-game representation of how popular housing is because players are so spread out between multiple instances. It's not efficient as a social activity for the same reason. WoW's system is no better at those things (it's actually worse due to the size of Neighborhoods) despite the current hype though it is better at allowing every player that wants a house to get one.

Housing looks empty because of the poor system design, not because of a lack of interest. I've talked in the past about how it could be redesigned to make it not just feel more active and social but also address the player demand for more medium and large plots. Each district has one ward and every plot within the ward is instanced, with the placard allowing players to choose whose house to visit much as the apartment building entrance is used to select whose apartment to visit.

For the sake of numbers, I logged onto one of my Coeurl characters just now. Limsa shows 127 players (including those in the inn and barracks). Mist shows 81 players (38 of them inside of a house, apartment or in a company workshop). Limsa may be more popular because of people hanging out at the aetheryte but Mist still has a good number of players present. I teleport over to Gridania - 95 players including those in the inn and barracks. Lavender Beds has 111 players (71 inside of a house, apartment or a workshop).

Are you that certain that housing is that unpopular, considering several of the players in Limsa and Gridania were showing as being in cutscenes and so were actively doing quests as opposed to just being in the cities to chill and socialize?

i bid on a small by the time i got it decorated i won a med house bid dont worry then you win

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

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The housing ward is empty, and that creates a feedback loop. Where players don't want to spend time in areas nobody else is in. If you're in the ward, you are likely there for your own curiosity, or you are there seeking something. If you are looking for emergent interactions, the hubs cities are better facilitators for player interaction. And since most players are here for the social aspect, the hub city is the defacto place for it.

I don't disagree.

And that perception of looking less busy, is what is going to be a reason why people would still prefer the hub cities. Social Motion creates Social Motion. If you are here for the social aspect, you are going to go where the social space is. And those who are also there for the social aspect are going to follow them. Its a zero sum. The more people in the City Hubs, the less are in the wards. Perception is everything. People like being in places where people already are.

People would find the fullest instance of Limsa and attempt to amass there. Which would bring other people. (I left Brynildr during Stormblood, and transferred to Excalibur specifically looking for a large population server to join, Balmung was first choice, but its consistently locked status prevents me from inviting new friends, so I looked for "not as full" servers)

I personally don't see the ward system as a representation of how popular housing is. I just see a Housing system, that has the unique attribute of having a neighborhood where you live alongside other players. If I want to visit another player like my friend, who lives in Excalibur's Mist in Ward 4 Subdivision Apt 50. I can just.... Go over there.... No need for a friends list, no need for them to be online. You, I, or anyone else in this thread can go visit it. Its has a "physical" address. I don't need their BattleTag, I don't need a friends list, I don't even need them online. For myself I REALLY like it. And personally, I am a fan of it, I like having neighbors, I like having a Ward that can organically change over time. Both Housing styles and tenants. I love having a permanent address that persists as long as I utilize it in some fashion. I get why you guys want what you want. But I like what this system offers. And I'd rather not see yet another system homogenized for accessibility sake.

So lets say you have 1 ward with 50 plots and 100 people living within it. Anyone not on your friends list will not appear. Its less social because of the limitations needed to make it accessible for all. Thousands of players may live in that instanced spot, but only friended or invited will see your name on this selection list? Imagine how Island Sanctuary works, but to get into someones plot


Never said housing was unpopular :P Housing just isn't top 5 of the aggregate player priorities. Not unpopular, it adds to the game. But its not game saving or game breaking. Those who are into it can get INTO it, but we are a minority in the general audience. If they delay the housing upgrade to 8.0 I wouldn't be shocked. Abit disappointed, but not shocked.

People want housing. They just don't care about wards, or want to deal with a dumb lottery system for a virtual house. There are so many reasons why the current system sucks and discourages interested players.

It's embarassing that such a big game can't even give a house to every player. There are free games out there giving you a whole island to decorate.

Seriously! I got a house by moving to Dynamis, but I don’t care about being part of a neighborhood, or having a yard or outdoor furniture, I just want a good sized personal space that I can invite other players into. Instanced housing or a bigger apartment (the size of a Medium house) would suit me fine.

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Originally Posted by Solowing

The housing ward is empty, and that creates a feedback loop. Where players don't want to spend time in areas nobody else is in. If you're in the ward, you are likely there for your own curiosity, or you are there seeking something. If you are looking for emergent interactions, the hubs cities are better facilitators for player interaction. And since most players are here for the social aspect, the hub city is the defacto place for it.

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You're making an assumption about player motivation that is less true now than it was 10 years ago. Research has shown that how people prefer to socially interact now is different compared to how they preferred to interact before smart phones and social media began saturating society. This extends even into game play.

There are a few reasons why MMORPGs continue to develop content that can be completed solo, a main one being fewer players have a desire to interact with others except in chat. The number of players demanding content that can be played solo in MMORPGs has been steadily increasing over time. That number is not insignificant considering how many MMORPGs are working to provide that content and make it rewarding in a reasonable fashion, if not as rewarding as content with a mandatory group requirement is.

I suspect "some" is a more accurate word to use now than "most" is.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

There are free games out there giving you a whole island to decorate.

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What F2P MMORPG is giving all of its players an entire island to decorate for no additional cost?

Trying to compare apples to oranges rarely works well and MMORPGs are more like watermelons than apples or oranges.

Definitely there is room for improvement in FFXIV's housing system, especially when it comes to basic access to a house, but there needs to be more to your argument than "random free game gives me an island". Your random free game is probably getting heavily subsidized by its whales addicted to gacha.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

What F2P MMORPG is giving all of its players an entire island to decorate for no additional cost?

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Rift, which has been F2P for ages. Granted it was previously a subscription based game when its housing system was originally added.

The 'personal dimension' system is the analogue for housing in Rift, the majority of dimensions can be earned from just playing the game normally, and includes a number of really large ones. The only things paywalled are some of the premium dimensions, premium decoration items, along with expanding decoration item count, albeit the base item count limit upgrades available through in-game currency are already much more generous than what FFXIV offers. And it's all instanced so literally every player can get their own housing/dimensions, and they can be made public or private/invite only.

So yes, FFXIV's housing system is woefully behind in comparison to what some F2P games offer.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

Rift, which has been F2P for ages. Granted it was previously a subscription based game when its housing system was originally added.

The 'personal dimension' system is the analogue for housing in Rift, the majority of dimensions can be earned from just playing the game normally, and includes a number of really large ones. The only things paywalled are some of the premium dimensions, premium decoration items, along with expanding decoration item count, albeit the base item count limit upgrades available through in-game currency are already much more generous than what FFXIV offers. And it's all instanced so literally every player can get their own housing/dimensions, and they can be made public or private/invite only.

So yes, FFXIV's housing system is woefully behind in comparison to what some F2P games offer.

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I played RIFT for several years. Dimensions remains my favorite housing system and a lot of what I've recommended in this forum for housing improvements comes from my experience in RIFT. But one thing that needs to be acknowledged is the heavy cash shop monetization that drove most of the system. That I did not like.

Implying RIFT gave players an entire island to decorate for free is disingenuous. What we got for free was a tiny piece of the starter zone for the character's faction and something like 10 items to decorate that had little relevance to each other.

The large Dimension Keys earned through game play were either a serious grind or obtained through extremely lucky RNG, especially if they couldn't be purchased from the auction house. How did players ease grinds in RIFT? Buy items and potions off the cash shop that provided QOL. A lot of the better Keys were locked behind the cash shop, and all too often the shop loot boxes. Could you technically earn them through game play? Sure, after hundreds of hours of platinum grinding whether to buy the Key for the crazy platinum price or use the platinum to buy REX from other players (who used real money to buy the REX) to get the store credits.

Let's not forget the cost of getting items to decorate a Dimension once you got the Key. Sure, there were some very basic items at vendors that you could buy for platinum, or even silver in the case of the more basic Building Blocks. But it was the Dimension loot boxes off the cash shop that contained most of what players wanted. Some of it would end up cheap on the auction house thanks to whales buying hundreds of loot boxes trying to get the rare items but the whale had still paid real money at some point for the item to get there.

In the end, there was almost always some money involved even if it was another player who paid it. I don't consider that free.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

... Implying RIFT gave players an entire island to decorate for free is disingenuous. What we got for free was a tiny piece of the starter zone for the character's faction and something like 10 items to decorate that had little relevance to each other...

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Hold on now. You asked what F2P games let players 'get a whole island to decorate at no additional cost'. Rift does allow F2P players to do just that, without having to engage in any RMT, which is what I was pointing out. Do players still have to earn it in game? Yes. Can it be grindy? Also yes. It's also true that there are a whole slew of decoration items only available through RMT purchases, but there are also plenty of crafted or vendor purchased decoration items as well. Yes there are limits, but that's not what you were asking.

I wholly agree with you that Rift's monetization went crazy and has a lot of undesirable elements to it. Particularly since Trion went under and Gamigo bought the game from them. Independent of that however, it's still true that the basic dimensions that were added to the game prior to all the RMT nonsense are still attainable purely through in-game earned currency, which includes several larger dimensions such as the Moonshade Highlands one.

Even so, the dimension system was initially added to the game when it was still subscription only and had no cash shop. The game is 2 years older than FFXIV and completely blows FF's housing out of the water, aside from the shady monetization tactics that were later slipped into it.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

Even so, the dimension system was initially added to the game when it was still subscription only and had no cash shop. The game is 2 years older than FFXIV and completely blows FF's housing out of the water, aside from the shady monetization tactics that were later slipped into it.

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And yet it had to Go F2P...Almost like housing isn't enough to float a game...

SWG Fans still talk about their housing, and their game was shut down.

All of XIVs eggs are not in the housing basket, nor should it be. To put more eggs into its basket you'd have to take out another basket. But those baskets are floating the game.

I get why y'all want change, but they are too deep in the hole, and requires consideration for both sides. Not "Gimmie what I want, and damn everything else"

Instanced Housing is fine, but how will they respect the commitment to keeping a ward plot active while giving other equivalent plots without the commitment is the question.