7.3 and that mysterious ________ (spoilers obviously)

So, I was just sitting here bored while waiting on my roulettes to pop and I had a thought that may or may not fit the lore, but the established lore doesn't seem to be so solid anymore anyway, so why not. What if Calyx is so invested in the key and our soul crystal because the mysterious ascian he talks to at the end of 7.3 is someone claiming to be Azem and sending him out to get more information on an imposter (us) and get their hands on the key/stone?

It could be a random ascian claiming the title or one who truly believes they are Azem for whatever reason.

It could be a forth unsundered ascian that even the 3 others were unaware of for reasons.

It could be the actual Azem shard of the Ninth who was raised to the seat when we couldn't be found or were discovered to be a minion of Hydi or discovered their own identity.

It could be an Ultima shard posing as Azem since the unsundered are no longer around to call her bluff, a theory I really like since Ultima being the new big bad would make total sense.

It could be someone who unlocked many of the ascian secrets and are an imposter themselves but still needs the key to move between shards.

And that is just naming a few. There are so many possiblities and I think we may be missing the mark by focusing on the other missing ascians. On top of that, knowing the way SE cannibalizes their own stories, Calyx it feels is already being set up for a redemption arc and could even be the Ardbert/Azem Shard of the 9th. Which at some point he could discover, like Ardbert did, and help us defeat the imposter. Which could likely happen while we are all in Amaurot 3.0 Or he just already knows and is trying to learn more about his own soul/destiny while playing the game with the mysterious ascian and will reveal it, dues ex machina style yet again, when we are in the final 8.0 confrotation.

Anyway that is just my bored mind wondering around

Edit: Guys this is fiction. Literally anything is possible, esp considering they already do not adhere to established lore. And I was just having fun thinking about this lol

I suppose it's not impossible that the other Azem shards could have been an Ascian, but I think Emet would probably have mentioned that and that they'd normally try to get the one on the Source given the importance of the Source and how it wouldn't be destroyed like the other shards.

The most key thing though is what the scions say. I vaguely recall they spelled out to us that only Ascians had all this knowledge and SE usually only makes them spell things out to us if it's correct.

I couldn't see a reflection of Azem being a raised Ascian to be honest, nor can I see it being a forth unsundered. It's just probably an ascian with their own self interest.. As I am not sure how much they really want to continually go back to the old story arc with hard references like "Oh, btw, 4th unsundered".

There were no Azem shards involved with the Ascians, Emet-Selch would have recognized them. He knows who you are the first time he sees you and spends the rest of Shadowbringers coping about it. I don't think there are any unknown unsundered, either. But there are many interesting possibilities. I think there are ways an Ascian, or someone with their powers and knowledge, could become stronger, now that there is no one to stop them.

Azem also couldn't even be raised up. Their crystal, the one we carry, is something Emet-Selch made on his own and isn't imbued with unsundered Azem's memories. What it has, like the summoning spell, is just what Emet put in it himself. Because he's a sentimental old bastard that misses his best friend.

That said, we don't know if more than one shard is raised up at once, and the black masks and who they were wasn't fully resolved as they were treated like Ascian mooks in ARR and HW, but I don't think showed up from SB onwards.

But there is nothing stopping the writers from making another shard of Azem a villain. Or perhaps just another person with the Echo ends up against us.

Also, if the Ascians found a shard of Azem, well Emet Selch would be the first to know about that

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Originally Posted by Garruss

Also, if the Ascians found a shard of Azem, well Emet Selch would be the first to know about that

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Emet journeyed with us how long and talked to us how often before he realized we were a shard of Azem? Literally the entirety of ShB.

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

There were no Azem shards involved with the Ascians, Emet-Selch would have recognized them. He knows who you are the first time he sees you and spends the rest of Shadowbringers coping about it.

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He didn't. In the final confrontation with him he did a shocked Pikachu face then was all like "NO IT CAN'T BE! Bah a trick of the light!" when he finally saw us in our ascian form and realized who we were.

Anyway Emet aside, if SE got some good writers this time through I think a false Azem manipulating Calyx for their own mysterious purposes would be a fantastic story arc if they are bent on brining Ascians back at all.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Emet journeyed with us how long and talked to us how often before he realized we were a shard of Azem? Literally the entirety of ShB.

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If you talk to him between quests, he makes multiple comments about things you "wouldn't remember" from the ancient world. Whether he's already aware of the WoL being a shard of Azem or is just generally being salty about us being sundered is ambiguous, but it can certainly be read either way.

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He didn't. In the final confrontation with him he did a shocked Pikachu face then was all like "NO IT CAN'T BE! Bah a trick of the light!" when he finally saw us in our ascian form and realized who we were.

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He could've also been in denial about it. This is well after we failed to meet his expectations by containing the Lightwardens' light, so he's clearly given up on us actually awakening as Azem. That we now suddenly (if briefly) manifest an Ancient form is shocking, but he's a stubborn old bastard and refuses to back down, so he denies it.

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Anyway Emet aside, if SE got some good writers this time through I think a false Azem manipulating Calyx for their own mysterious purposes would be a fantastic story arc if they are bent on brining Ascians back at all.

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We also still have at least two Ascians unaccounted for. Pashtarot appeared once in a cutscene and never again, and Halmarut was mentioned in Akademia Anyder and nowhere else. Altima and Deudalaphon were apparently defeated by Gaius sometime between the Praetorium and his return pre-Shadowbringers, but whether he has the actual power to kill them for good or just slay their hosts is unknown. (Emmerololth is also somewhat ambiguous; she appeared in the same cutscene as Pashtarot, but Eureka later established that she was killed by Galuf and his group long before. Either another Emmerololth was raised up, or there's a retcon in there somewhere.) Maybe one of them could've raised up an Azem shard as a pawn, the same way the Unsundered raised all of them.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Emet journeyed with us how long and talked to us how often before he realized we were a shard of Azem? Literally the entirety of ShB.



He didn't. In the final confrontation with him he did a shocked Pikachu face then was all like "NO IT CAN'T BE! Bah a trick of the light!" when he finally saw us in our ascian form and realized who we were.

Anyway Emet aside, if SE got some good writers this time through I think a false Azem manipulating Calyx for their own mysterious purposes would be a fantastic story arc if they are bent on brining Ascians back at all.

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No, Emet knew we were a shard the whole time. That's the actual reason he opted to play nice most of SHB. The seat of Emet-Selch required the ability to recognize souls individually by sight, and as soon as he came back to work, he came right to us. The whole point was he wanted to see if we were anything like the Azem of his time. The entire game has all sorts of little moments he's attempting to spark us to remember or act like his Azem. I've seen some other players even catch that he acts like we were his former lover with a few lines.
The reveal when Ardbert merged was because we suddenly did look like his Azem and right at the moment when we were determined to put him down. He even states to us right before that moment that becoming a sin-eater would help hurry the rejoining for the world "that is rightfully ours." Foreshadowing more about the relationship they had.

'that is rightfully ours'

ours as in 'us the ascians'. when you talk about an organisation or faction you are part of its normal to use 'us' even if you are the only one from that faction present

It's unlikely to me that any of the leftover Ascians could be a sliver of Azem, as Azem resigned from the convocation. I don't think they'd be trying to get him to join the Ascians after that. It's likely Pashtarot or Halmarut as their whereabouts are currently unknown. Every other Ascian is accounted for.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

He even states to us right before that moment that becoming a sin-eater would help hurry the rejoining for the world "that is rightfully ours." Foreshadowing more about the relationship they had.

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I went through the entire MSQ over the last decade and never once interpreted any line as hitting on me. But then I read posts and theories like this from reddit and twitter and it's amazing how much people have read into lines that are merely expressing friendship, politeness or talking about a collective/organization.

Take Aymeric, for example. I interpreted that as a mutual expression of friendship after we'd participated in so many battles together and gone through the dragonsong war. I felt like it was just finding a moment to hang out one warrior to another, because we usually don't have time... but the internet interpreted it as hinting at a relationship.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

'that is rightfully ours'

ours as in 'us the ascians'. when you talk about an organisation or faction you are part of its normal to use 'us' even if you are the only one from that faction present

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... which Azem was a part of.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I went through the entire MSQ over the last decade and never once interpreted any line as hitting on me. But then I read posts and theories like this from reddit and twitter and it's amazing how much people have read into lines that are merely expressing friendship, politeness or talking about a collective/organization.

Take Aymeric, for example. I interpreted that as a mutual expression of friendship after we'd participated in so many battles together and gone through the dragonsong war. I felt like it was just finding a moment to hang out one warrior to another, because we usually don't have time... but the internet interpreted it as hinting at a relationship.

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The thing is no matter how you interpret Emet, he DID love Azem as an important companion in his life pre-Sundering. Their friendship was one of the most important relationships in Emet-Selch's life, and yes, there is no point it's explicitly stated as a romance, only that Azem meant so much to him and the schism from the convocation and later "death" during the Sundering utterly broke Emet's heart. That's what the game is saying. That's what the short stories say. ("Through His Eyes" and "Days gone By, Days Yet to Come" both go into the detail on the friendship further than the game does. I think the latter is exclusive to the recent book, however.)

But there is nothing there saying it wasn't romantic, either, so lots of players inevitably read it as such.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

'that is rightfully ours'

ours as in 'us the ascians'. when you talk about an organisation or faction you are part of its normal to use 'us' even if you are the only one from that faction present

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It's double meaning. At first it sounds like he's only talking about the ascian, but later you realize that "ours" is everyone actually. Remember that the sundered *is* the Ancients. The unsudered, or at least emet, both view the sundered as enemies and as their people whom they sworn to save. So it's like "I do this for you" vibe. If I'm not mistaken emet kinda hints at this when he met us during the building of Talos, where he told us that the sundered doesn't know what's robbed from them.