Why?

My previous thread was taken down, so I want to explain better and genuinely want to understand...I have been playing this game for about 4 years,a bit after EW release. Since then i am more of a Casual player, There is a percentage of players that despice Casual players for minding their own business. My quention is Why (mostly) Hardcore players,want to drive away Casuals?I have been lurking on the forums and made an account just yesterday,from what i have seen and deducted, some Hardcore players have a deep hate over People that dont play their way, Why should someone should follow the raiders prompt? or the casuals prompt? or Any prompt and not enjoy the game their way? and i am not talking about cheating on PvP that this actually is an issue and i am against also about Cheating. Why Casuals are an issue?

Because of posts like these.

Maybe consider that they are just expressing their opinions, not necessarily correct nor representing all players on the forums.

If you have some thoughts on their opinions, perhaps consider replying directly to them, instead of making a separate thread so that you don't get normal players whom don't hate casuals give you weird looks.

> posts troll thread

> troll thread gets removed

> "why was my thread removed?"

Ah, sure... I don't like what's being said, must be a troll post.

As if the forums aren't littered with evidence of the vitriol that these forums throw at casual players. As if there wasn't a recent thread decrying solo players. As if there wasn't a casual player who was basically forced out of the forums just a few months ago. Must be a troll.

People throw all blame toward casuals players regarding job homogenisation, two minute meta, content being too easy, gaslight them into believing most content is casual and made for them, then call them every name in the book, and act shocked when casuals start asking why and call them trolls.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

Ah, sure... I don't like what's being said, must be a troll post.

As if the forums aren't littered with evidence of the vitriol that these forums throw at casual players. As if there wasn't a recent thread decrying solo players. As if there wasn't a casual player who was basically forced out of the forums just a few months ago. Must be a troll.

People throw all blame toward casuals players regarding job homogenisation, two minute meta, content being too easy, gaslight them into believing most content is casual and made for them, then call them every name in the book, and act shocked when casuals start asking why and call them trolls.

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Who mentioned the casual players?

Can you show me where?

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

Who mentioned the casual players?

Can you show me where?

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Are you capable of reading the English language? Comprehending what the OP said? Do you require schooling in English?

Here, let me give you a hint:

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Originally Posted by Valerie_Dea

so I want to explain better and genuinely want to understand

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Originally Posted by Valerie_Dea

i am more of a Casual player, There is a percentage of players that despice Casual players for minding their own business

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Originally Posted by Shialan

> posts troll thread

> troll thread gets removed

> "why was my thread removed?"

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

Are you capable of reading the English language? Comprehending what the OP said? Do you require schooling in English?

Here, let me give you a hint:

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> posts troll thread

> troll thread gets removed

> will have received an email being told why by the forum Mods

> "why was my thread removed?"

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

> posts troll thread

> troll thread gets removed

> will have received an email being told why by the forum Mods

> "why was my thread removed?"

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No. The poster isn't asking Why? was their thread removed, they're asking Why? the hate for casual players. Again, reading and comprehension.

The original post, whatever it might've looked like, may have been a difficulty in expressing their thoughts, perhaps they're not native English speakers. Assuming someone's a troll for any opinion they don't like is definitely on par for this forum though.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

No. The poster isn't asking Why? was their thread removed, they're asking Why? the hate for casual players. Again, reading and comprehension.

The original post, whatever it might've looked like, may have been a difficulty in expressing their thoughts, perhaps they're not native English speakers. Assuming someone's a troll for any opinion they don't like is definitely on par for this forum though.

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The thread was removed because it's clearly about a certain third party tool that was recently taken down by Square Enix. The giveaway was not, and still not, stating exactly what they perceive as "casual players minding their own business".

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Originally Posted by Johners

The thread was removed because it's clearly about a certain third party tool that was recently taken down by Square Enix. The giveaway was not, and still not, stating exactly what they perceive as "casual players minding their own business".

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Care to show me a quote of said reference to third party tool? Or am I supposed to just take your word for it?

But even so, the OPs intent for Why? is clearly stated in what they wrote. It's nothing to do with why the thread was taken down. It's simply people refuse to read the OPs question.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

Care to show me a quote of said reference to third party tool? Or am I supposed to just take your word for it?

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You're going to have to take their word for it, because the thread where it was clear they are talking about mare got taken down.

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Originally Posted by RenkoBernkastel

You're going to have to take their word for it, because the thread where it was clear they are talking about mare got taken down.

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Not FF14 related because it doesn't exist. Obviously it would be taken down.

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Originally Posted by RenkoBernkastel

You're going to have to take their word for it, because the thread where it was clear they are talking about mare got taken down.

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Alright so. Let's say they were referring to the tool. I'll go with it.

How does that change the fact their legitimate question about hate against casuals on these forums being spun into something entirely different and them labeled a troll?

So far, to me it seems like only Chajii actually read the question and gave a legitimate helpful response to them.

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Originally Posted by Valerie_Dea

Why should someone should follow the raiders prompt? or the casuals prompt? or Any prompt and not enjoy the game their way?

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Care to give an example? I'm more on the casual side and think having fun is fine. As long as you try your best, not a problem to me.

I find it very funny that people think "hardcore" players were not typically using cosmetic and more. If anything, I think it's casuals that appear to have issues with what other players are doing.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

As if there wasn't a recent thread decrying solo players.

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tbf, as someone who dropped raiding and started to play this game casually around STB, a lot of the resentment building towards solo players is a direct result of SE catering to them so hard and spending a lot of money, time and resources to change the game to make an mmo a single player experience. A genre specifically created for ppl to play together as a team. And for those of us who want more to do as a team, who want longer term content and play mmos to do more than show off our glams while afk in LL, the game is terribly thin, esp since everything outdates in a single patch. If SE would make this an mmo again and not a single player game with lite coop, this would not be such an issue. But no, they are just doubling down every patch by taking away anything interesting so their trusts can do it, specifically for soloists.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

As if there wasn't a casual player who was basically forced out of the forums just a few months ago.

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First I heard of that and I am on these forums relatively often. And what about reddit, where we had to create a whole new subreddit to even discuss the game due to a massive amount of ppl going nuts with even a small amount of criticism was dared to be uttered. Even I left it, when I said I was let down by EW and woke up to well over 2k downvotes. Many ppl were pushed off of things like reddit due to the absolute train wreck that is the official subreddit and the ferocity of the defenders, casuals and soloists.

We can get along, but let's not pretend its just one team forcing the divide. The only time one team holds near exclusivity is when it comes to crying victim.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

I find it very funny that people think "hardcore" players were not typically using cosmetic and more. If anything, I think it's casuals that appear to have issues with what other players are doing.

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Literally none of us care as long as it isn't giving us sunk cost fallacy due to someone else's actions.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

tbf, as someone who dropped raiding and started to play this game casually around STB, a lot of the resentment building towards solo players is a direct result of SE catering to them so hard and spending a lot of money, time and resources to change the game to make an mmo a single player experience. A genre specifically created for ppl to play together as a team. And for those of us who want more to do as a team, who want longer term content and play mmos to do more than show off our glams while afk in LL, the game is terribly thin, esp since everything outdates in a single patch. If SE would make this an mmo again and not a single player game with lite coop, this would not be such an issue. But no, they are just doubling down every patch by taking away anything interesting so their trusts can do it, specifically for soloists.

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Solo players have existed in MMOs since MMOs were invented. There's any number of reasons why an MMO player may want to play alone, and any successful online video game has to at least make some content for them, if they want to remain relevant. I find Josh Strife Hayes' video on solo MMO players to be well grounded, and mirrors alot of how I enjoy my MMOs.

And FF14 doesn't cater to solo players as much as people like to make it sound like it does. You're literally forced into group content through the MSQ or can't progress it. They've even had to implement the Trust system to make sure that content remains viable because as soon as veteran players leave the game, it'll be impossible to actually complete it.

How do I know? I literally left FF14 and went back to SWtoR. That's a casual friendly MMO that's basically a single player RPG experience with a tacked on optional MMO. I came from there to 14, and having gone back to it recently after OC release, I'm reminded what an actual solo friendly casual experience is actually meant to feel like. I haven't had to play with a single other person even once in the last two months, and I've enjoyed every moment of it. And on the occasion when I do interact with someone in the chat or during a Dynamic Encounter, or for a world boss kill, I do it because I feel like it, not because the game forces me to.

In fact, 14 caters to endgame raiders far more than it caters to casuals since Dawntrail released. So, I'm not sure where this idea that solo players or casuals are ruining the game comes from. It's like people on these forums just ignore objective reality.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

First I heard of that and I am on these forums relatively often.

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Then you haven't been on the right forum threads, because I've seen how these forums mauled said person (pun intended), for asking the bare minimum of difficulty options. I've also been called an NPC, and seen vitriol thrown at others, for the mere concept of not wanting to deal with these same people who act like the world owes them something.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

And what about reddit, where we had to create a whole new subreddit to even discuss the game due to a massive amount of ppl going nuts with even a small amount of criticism was dared to be uttered. Even I left it, when I said I was let down by EW and woke up to well over 2k downvotes. Many ppl were pushed off of things like reddit due to the absolute train wreck that is the official subreddit and the ferocity of the defenders, casuals and soloists.

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I don't much visit the reddit 14 side, I'm not a redditor, so I can't verify it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just as bad, or even worse over there. But that doesn't change the fact that these forums are a breeding ground for name calling, lying, gaslighting, acting like only one way to play is the right way.
I wasn't let down by Endwalker, I was let down by Dawntrail, in so many ways. The crazy part is that, during Endwalker, when everyone on these same forums decried how easy the game had gotten and how they wanted to increase the difficulty, I recall trying to explain how this is a big risk that could potentially alienate the playerbase, and was shot down. Look at how the game is doing right now, after a year of increased DDR speed fights, Chaotic, Forked Tower with no Normal mode, countless EX and Savage and an Ultimate with another on the way, and yet people are leaving in droves. And no, it's not just because of the story, although that was bad enough.

Given the choice between Endwalker fights and Dawntrail fights, I'll choose Endwalker every single day. I have had more enjoyment mowing down hundreds of thousands of simple mods in SWtoR, doing heroics with my companion, killing champions for achievements, hunting datacrons to increase my overall stats and exploring the map, than I've ever had in 14 doing their silly dances or repeating yet another same repetitive FATE.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

We can get along, but let's not pretend its just one team forcing the divide. The only time one team holds near exclusivity is when it comes to crying victim.

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I've tried to get along. When I first came to the forums, I really tried to present my arguments in good faith. Doesn't work, and at this point, it doesn't matter anyway. I haven't touched content since the first week of OC, and 14 is pretty much dead to me, outside of just resetting my house timer, my FC and subs and occasionally chatting with friends, if they even bother to come online anymore that is.

I can't speak for how the reddit forums are, I don't really go there, I'm not a redditor. I believe you that it might be just as bad; maybe even worse, but these forums treat any player who plays differently to how is expected, like they're the enemy. Even the ones who're mostly intelligent and calm and like to discuss rather than resort to name calling, will deride a tank that doesn't w2w pull, just because it's expected.

God help anyone who enjoys the game differently to how they enjoy it. As long as everything happens on their time, on their schedule, they're happy campers. But once something strays too far away from their comfort zone, all of a sudden this is an MMO and we should respect their time. Ironic that they don't return that sentiment when it doesn't suit them though.

Anyway, I appreciate your measured response regardless, and I strayed too far off topic. The real issue with this thread is that the OPs question was skipped, assumptions were made based on the title alone, and a newcomer to the forums was once again labeled a troll for not toeing the party line, and are likely not going to return here again.

my thread got taken down too for talking about another game OP i am just as confused lmao i guess they dont like competition or somethin'

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

then you haven't been on the right forum threads, because I've seen how these forums mauled said person (pun intended), for asking the bare minimum of difficulty options.

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Pretty sure you just made this up. You asked for evidence for the post that was deleted, so now it's your turn.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

I've also been called an NPC

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I do not think you made this one up, though, lmaeow.

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

my thread got taken down too for talking about another game OP i am just as confused lmao i guess they dont like competition or somethin'

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Yes, I wonder why the post about a game completely unrelated to FFXIV, other than sharing a genre, was deleted in the FFXIV General Discussion, a forum made to discuss FFXIV.

On a serious note, if you want to discuss an unrelated game, r/MMORPG is right there, or any social media that allows for open-ended topics.

for me it is because casual players make everything a slog. i am trying to speed level in dungeons and casuals cannot tell their left hand from their right hand.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

In fact, 14 caters to endgame raiders far more than it caters to casuals since Dawntrail released. So, I'm not sure where this idea that solo players or casuals are ruining the game comes from. It's like people on these forums just ignore objective reality.

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True, I think the game has solo / multiplayer balanced well. I think the duty support dungeons are very good.

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Originally Posted by IttyBittyShark

for me it is because casual players make everything a slog. i am trying to speed level in dungeons and casuals cannot tell their left hand from their right hand.

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Then don't play with them. Play with those that have similar interests to you.

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Originally Posted by IttyBittyShark

for me it is because casual players make everything a slog. i am trying to speed level in dungeons and casuals cannot tell their left hand from their right hand.

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Big cope coming from a white mage main, your job will make casual content slog. Try playing more jobs before you start reflecting on the usual players.

you shouldn't chase the casual players away >.> they're the ones keeping the lights on for the service at the end of the day not getting bored an bouncing thru thousands of other games a day/week lol i really dont understand those who subscribe to this mentality of casual vs hards if anything this is like a hardcore paradise they get plenty to do every expansion meanwhile the rest are just sitting here bored outta their minds doing the same boring af formula ad nauseum its not fun running dungeons everyday ya know or doing locked out 24 man raids every week... even sidequests have gotten stale from over use of the same formula. an player housing is a travesty an pounzy scheme we were made to fall for all for the sake of greed an force ya to stay tethered to the game at all times. despite the developer sentiment that we should take rests in between patch cycles XD
lets just not even talk about pvp >.> you love it or you hate it enough said lol

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Originally Posted by MikeCake

Big cope coming from a white mage main, your job will make casual content slog. Try playing more jobs before you start reflecting on the usual players.

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Isn't WHM the highest damage healer, because you can spend lilies between pulls and get blood lilies for packs?

Also, from my experience, it's usually the healer damage that really makes a difference, since a lot of healers barely do damage. DPS are always focused on doing damage, tanks mostly focused on doing damage, but healers often spend more GCDs on healing than you need to--or in general just being more scared of dying.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/38/8d...2a683e44b4.gif

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Originally Posted by MikeCake

Big cope coming from a white mage main, your job will make casual content slog. Try playing more jobs before you start reflecting on the usual players.

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i literally make every dungeon i heal a speedrun what are u even saying XD white mage is the best dungeon healer

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Originally Posted by Miradelle

[...]Also, from my experience, it's usually the healer damage that really makes a difference, since a lot of healers barely do damage. DPS are always focused on doing damage, tanks mostly focused on doing damage, but healers often spend more GCDs on healing than you need to--or in general just being more scared of dying.

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This speaks more about general player skills within the role than anything tbh.

When you (general you) create a job designed to be playable by a toddler faceplanting their keyboard, I don't think it's a surprise that they will attract players of similar types one way or another.

Nobody hates casual players; they probably dislike, myself included, the way arguments are constructed.

To be able to provide pertinent feedback in general, you do need to have a good grasp of the class/ role, played at all levels of difficulty in a balanced, productive way.

Some tips on how to actually provide constructive feedback:

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Use “I” statements.
Provide actionable feedback.
Include positive comments where appropriate.
Make it a conversation.
Maintain a friendly tone.
Be specific.
Be empathic
Avoid assumptions

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Now, how many of those "feedback" topics check all of these marks?

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Nobody hates casual players; they probably dislike, myself included, the way arguments are constructed.

To be able to provide pertinent feedback in general, you do need to have a good grasp of the class/ role, played at all levels of difficulty in a balanced, productive way.

Some tips on how to actually provide constructive feedback:


Now, how many of those "feedback" topics check all of these marks?

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Okay but this doesn't suit my narrative so I'm going to either discredit this or completely ignore it.

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Originally Posted by Valerie_Dea

My previous thread was taken down, so I want to explain better and genuinely want to understand...I have been playing this game for about 4 years,a bit after EW release. Since then i am more of a Casual player, There is a percentage of players that despice Casual players for minding their own business. My quention is Why (mostly) Hardcore players,want to drive away Casuals?I have been lurking on the forums and made an account just yesterday,from what i have seen and deducted, some Hardcore players have a deep hate over People that dont play their way, Why should someone should follow the raiders prompt? or the casuals prompt? or Any prompt and not enjoy the game their way? and i am not talking about cheating on PvP that this actually is an issue and i am against also about Cheating. Why Casuals are an issue?

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You need to understand that actually taking the time to post here puts you, as a player, in a more intense category of interest about the game than the vast majority of "casual" players.

We CARE about stuff. We want to play better, we want the game to be interesting, we want content that strikes our personal fantasy, we want community, and we're told to come here to voice what we think will benefit the game. Why do some hardcore struggle working with casuals? Because some don't care and that's frustrating. It's often the "don't assume malice when it's likely ignorance," but that's been my experience.

It's actually not that deep.

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Originally Posted by Valerie_Dea

My previous thread was taken down, so I want to explain better and genuinely want to understand...I have been playing this game for about 4 years,a bit after EW release. Since then i am more of a Casual player, There is a percentage of players that despice Casual players for minding their own business. My quention is Why (mostly) Hardcore players,want to drive away Casuals?I have been lurking on the forums and made an account just yesterday,from what i have seen and deducted, some Hardcore players have a deep hate over People that dont play their way, Why should someone should follow the raiders prompt? or the casuals prompt? or Any prompt and not enjoy the game their way? and i am not talking about cheating on PvP that this actually is an issue and i am against also about Cheating. Why Casuals are an issue?

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because FF14 is their entire life so anyone who doesn't take it as seriously as they do (e.g., "its just a game" type people) shatters their "reality".

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

When you (general you) create a job designed to be playable by a toddler faceplanting their keyboard, I don't think it's a surprise that they will attract players of similar types one way or another.

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Bold of you to assume toddlers have the coordination to even reach the keyboard, let alone clear content. But sure, let’s pretend that’s a valid design critique.

If you want to use hyperbole, at least make it believable. These days, 1-3 year old children are much more excited about swiping through YouTube Kids on a tablet. Toddlers are more likely to point excitedly at the screen while mommy or daddy is running through Dragonsong's Reprise or, heavens forfend, Sastasha, than to be mashing keys like it's a rhythm game.