Double down and lionheart changes

I feel like these attacks should receive continuation follow ups. Double down should get one since the name would make sense again. Lionheart feels weird without being only 3 attacks. The original lion heart had a lot more slashes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain

I feel like these attacks should receive continuation follow ups. Double down should get one since the name would make sense again. Lionheart feels weird without being only 3 attacks. The original lion heart had a lot more slashes.

---

As a Gunbreaker main: YES! YES! YES! A THOUSAND TIMES YES!!!

We can even make Rough Divide a Continuation skill for Double Down.

Rough divide should have never been removed. Same with plunge. We had enough space for them + the new dashes.

Also Double Down needs to either cost 2 cartridges again or be renamed to Single Down. -.-

While I do think the cost reduction was unnecessary, the name never had anything to do with it's cost.

It's not called Double Down because it cost two cartridges. It's called Double Down because, when you look at the animation, it is literally your character jumping in the air and doing two downward slashes.

Similar applies to Lionheart. You might only be pressing 3 GCDs, but the animation shows multiple slashing attacks for each of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

It's not called Double Down because it cost two cartridges. It's called Double Down because, when you look at the animation, it is literally your character jumping in the air and doing two downward slashes.

Similar applies to Lionheart. You might only be pressing 3 GCDs, but the animation shows multiple slashing attacks for each of them.

---

This is a pet peeve of mine in FFXIV in general: Double Down shows us hitting the enemy twice. But we only hit it once. We can see that. There's a combat log. There's not even fudging of the scrolling combat text (like many games so, multi-attack abilities technically only cause a single hit but it's shown as a flurry of small damage numbers to the player for the feel).

Same with those other skills. Dark Knight C&S. I wish these abilities would actually cause multiple instances of damage...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carighan

This is a pet peeve of mine in FFXIV in general: Double Down shows us hitting the enemy twice. But we only hit it once. We can see that. There's a combat log. There's not even fudging of the scrolling combat text (like many games so, multi-attack abilities technically only cause a single hit but it's shown as a flurry of small damage numbers to the player for the feel).

Same with those other skills. Dark Knight C&S. I wish these abilities would actually cause multiple instances of damage...

---

Ninjas dream within a dream used to
Blue mage matra magic does
Bards barrage on single target (but not aoe???????) Does
. They've done it before I don't know why not anymore... if it's about stopping damage variance then make every numeric value of each strike do fixed equal damage. Is that even hard? Stares at blue mage 1000 needles doing fixed damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain

Ninjas dream within a dream used to
Blue mage matra magic does
Bards barrage on single target (but not aoe???????) Does
. They've done it before I don't know why not anymore... if it's about stopping damage variance then make every numeric value of each strike do fixed equal damage. Is that even hard? Stares at blue mage 1000 needles doing fixed damage.

---

I'm not actually sure if those were multi-hit, and I unfortunately the logs are too old to check.
What I mean is that sure, they were displayed as multiple instances of damage, but did the game actually register them as such?

Because the "black magic we don't talk about" can do that exact thing right now, display an ability as multiple separate hits with their own individual damage, but the game itself still just registers it as a single attack.

But we do know that Barrage actually does make Refulgent Arrow a multi-hit with 3 separate damage instances, so they can clearly do it...sometimes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain

They've done it before I don't know why not anymore... if it's about stopping damage variance then make every numeric value of each strike do fixed equal damage. Is that even hard? Stares at blue mage 1000 needles doing fixed damage.

---

Yeah plus if you do this as a dev usually for performance reasons your game logic (or in this case the server) only processes a single hit for a large amount of damage anyways. But what gets shown to the player are 4 individual damage hits that sum up to this large number. A purely visual thing where the individual numbers are then timed to when the attacks visually connect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carighan

Yeah plus if you do this as a dev usually for performance reasons your game logic (or in this case the server) only processes a single hit for a large amount of damage anyways. But what gets shown to the player are 4 individual damage hits that sum up to this large number. A purely visual thing where the individual numbers are then timed to when the attacks visually connect.

---

Having them actually register as separate hits would be the better option if possible, because at the same time it would lower the crit variance problem we're having.
Instead of a single 1500 potency hit you would have let's say 4 hits for 375 potency each and a crit roll on each of them.

But it would increase the processing load, so yeah it's probably not going to happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

Having them actually register as separate hits would be the better option if possible, because at the same time it would lower the crit variance problem we're having.
Instead of a single 1500 potency hit you would have let's say 4 hits for 375 potency each and a crit roll on each of them.

---

It's also unnecessary. Law of large numbers. Yeah sure, in a particular buff window you might use a single Double Down and it's annoying if that doesn't crit. But there are thousands of Gunbreakers using Double Down in tens of thousands of buff windows every day. And even a single player uses it more than once in a particular fight, nevermind a whole evening. It balances out.

Now as to whether the buff window has become too important, and hence critting inside it too valuable vs the crits you get outside of it, that's a separate issue. Also easily solved (even without de-emphasizing the window) but it needs a separate fix, and increasing server load for every ability showing multiple hits feels unnecessary to me to try fix it, tbh. I mean, they could always just fudge crit chance if that's a problem (meaning it's not actually the percentage you see at any given moment).

If they do the the skill trees for next expansion. give us an option trajectory for more utility and enminity or rough divide for more damage but only one charge. DOUble down costing 1 cartridge i got used to it had to re-adjust my own opener for it, but if it get s acontinuation could maybe we make an explosion or we can send it out in a line infront of us (less damage but more of a helpful for a few enemies infront of us) Or could have a passicve to increase a cartridge cost by 1 (So certain abilities use two) they give us a stronger burst but longer cool down

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

While I do think the cost reduction was unnecessary, the name never had anything to do with it's cost.

It's not called Double Down because it cost two cartridges. It's called Double Down because, when you look at the animation, it is literally your character jumping in the air and doing two downward slashes.

Similar applies to Lionheart. You might only be pressing 3 GCDs, but the animation shows multiple slashing attacks for each of them.

---

It's also a bit of a pun/reference. The attack is similar to one used by Seifer after he learns the truth of Ultimecia, but he refuses it and continues to engage in his wrong decisions, thus "doubling down".