PVP - which actions you think could make into PVE kits?

I know PVP is a different beast and need to be more dynamic, but there are many actions there that could easily be integrated into the job's main kits to enhance the identity.

Which one you think? I don't play many jobs in PVP, but below as follows:

Dancer
Honing Dance - Even taking the healing component out, it would be interesting as an AoE tool with a 60s recast time, that builds up Esprit.
Closed Position - I don't see a reason why the PVE version can't be like the PVP one, no recast time related, since you technically need SS to activate it.
Contradance - Niche CC for dungeon pulls, can complement a WHM's Holy.

Astrologian
Double Cast - Not much to say, I just think it would be a cool addition to AST's offensive arsenal, being able to replicate Malefic or Gravity as an oGCD, but also supplement healing when needed. The secondary effects could even remain as they add flavor, just replacing Gravity's bind/heavy with maybe a Slow.
Epicycle - A beacon-based teleport/return is unique. Ley Lines does this too, but Epicycle is not bound to an important throughput action and could be used more defensively.

Maybe there are other cool ideas that could make sense if integrated/adapted to the PVE kits?

As much as I love the idea of bringing more pvp concepts into pve like Honing especially (great choice), Epicycle functions exactly like RPR's teleport and is one of the things brought into pvp with DT that still has me scratching my head. Like, why?

I would like to see MCH's Sniper Rifle make it into PvE, maybe as a finisher for Wildfire, like having wildfire active lets you use the rifle to immediately detonate it with all current stacks, plus 1 since the rifle counts as a weaponskill.

I couldn't think of any for MNK. :(

WHM's Seraph Strike to give them another form of mitigation which they severely lacks.

SCH's Deployment Tactic. Enough said.

SGE's Toxikon II. Oh boi...

One thing I love is how SMN has the option on which LB you can use. While most of the time it's Bahamut, having the option of a more defensive/healing LB is great for more dire situations. I feel like having to actually choose and balance the usage of your big summons depending on the situation, and therefore granting SMN more niche functions, would really help ease the current boring-ness of the job. It feels kinda useless to have them cycle with no control over it when they clearly are meant to have different situational uses, lol.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I know PVP is a different beast and need to be more dynamic, but there are many actions there that could easily be integrated into the job's main kits to enhance the identity.

Which one you think? I don't play many jobs in PVP, but below as follows:

Dancer
Honing Dance - Even taking the healing component out, it would be interesting as an AoE tool with a 60s recast time, that builds up Esprit.
Closed Position - I don't see a reason why the PVE version can't be like the PVP one, no recast time related, since you technically need SS to activate it.
Contradance - Niche CC for dungeon pulls, can complement a WHM's Holy.

Astrologian
Double Cast - Not much to say, I just think it would be a cool addition to AST's offensive arsenal, being able to replicate Malefic or Gravity as an oGCD, but also supplement healing when needed. The secondary effects could even remain as they add flavor, just replacing Gravity's bind/heavy with maybe a Slow.
Epicycle - A beacon-based teleport/return is unique. Ley Lines does this too, but Epicycle is not bound to an important throughput action and could be used more defensively.

Maybe there are other cool ideas that could make sense if integrated/adapted to the PVE kits?

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Dervish. Bozja had it too. Just give us Heroism / Bloodlust / Timewarp at this point SE. The buffs we have now are the most boring, milquetoast things I have ever had the displeasure of pushing just to say I'm contributing.

I just want the 1-2-3 combos to stacking on one button be an option in PVE. Lots pf rotation skills can be stacked like that.

Why doesn't Fire and Ice 3 convert into Fire and Ice 4 when Enochian is triggered? Why doesn't Hypercharge just turn into Heatblast when hit? Why don't the lowest healing spells like Cure 1 and Physic just turn into the updated spells of Cure 2 and Adloquiom?

I'm sure EVERY job has examples that could use the option to stack skills.

It makes controller play way more daunting for some jobs due to button bloat and PVP added a solution years ago that just hasn't been moved over to PVE. (Scholar in particular is a disaster on controller from the sheer quantity of skills given to a capped player.)

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

I just want the 1-2-3 combos to stacking on one button be an option in PVE. Lots pf rotation skills can be stacked like that.

Why doesn't Fire and Ice 3 convert into Fire and Ice 4 when Enochian is triggered? Why doesn't Hypercharge just turn into Heatblast when hit? Why don't the lowest healing spells like Cure 1 and Physic just turn into the updated spells of Cure 2 and Adloquiom?

I'm sure EVERY job has examples that could use the option to stack skills.

It makes controller play way more daunting for some jobs due to button bloat and PVP added a solution years ago that just hasn't been moved over to PVE. (Scholar in particular is a disaster on controller from the sheer quantity of skills given to a capped player.)

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honestly i think SE may adjust a bunch of jobs in 8.0 to follow the Viper button stacking. It would cut down on a lot of the button bloat for many jobs and make it easier for controller players to get optimum dps

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

I just want the 1-2-3 combos to stacking on one button be an option in PVE. Lots pf rotation skills can be stacked like that.

Why doesn't Fire and Ice 3 convert into Fire and Ice 4 when Enochian is triggered? Why doesn't Hypercharge just turn into Heatblast when hit? Why don't the lowest healing spells like Cure 1 and Physic just turn into the updated spells of Cure 2 and Adloquiom?

I'm sure EVERY job has examples that could use the option to stack skills.

It makes controller play way more daunting for some jobs due to button bloat and PVP added a solution years ago that just hasn't been moved over to PVE. (Scholar in particular is a disaster on controller from the sheer quantity of skills given to a capped player.)

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Yes! We got the option to unstack buttons that were already stacked, but not the other way around! Some jobs’ hotbars are just atrocious on controller… I understand this wouldn’t work for every job, but for the ones that would, please let it be an option!

If I’m going to be hitting that button regardless, in a combo that’s always repeated anyway, it’s not going to “kill the complexity of the job” to stack the buttons. It will however save me from early arthritis! lol

Walking Casts from BRD, and MCH

Deployment Tactics now also working on enemy debuffs for SCH

DRK spending its own HP on attacks

Walking channels like Honing Dance or Relentless Rush

Movement attacks like Hissatsu Soten

Cycling actions like MCH's tools, and DRK's Torcleaver combo

Individual Limit breaks?

I feel that in pve like pvp it should be optional to have the actions placed into one button in it just feels better that way.
and the skilled players can have all he buttons to press place it to an option.

pvp itself stuns need to become less of a thing losing control of your chara when you are alive is in no way fun.
dancer's LB should be a dmg aoe that nerfs dmg and defense heavily.

if one class has a stun REDMAGE all the classes should be allowed to stun.

Most pvp skills and gameplays should make it to pve. Some would simply return, like dot spreading.

Pvp gameplay is what pve should be if Yoshida didn't restrain his gameplay design team like a mad lad. For some jobs more than others of course (but most notable for healers as they currently don't have any gameplay).

I've generally been assuming all PvP skills were PvE skills at one point before classes started getting pruned. Plunge, for example (RIP).

I like SGE's Psyche being attached to Plegma as a reward for diving into melee. Anything to bring it closer to its PvP iteration would be fine by me.

Maybe for PLD, Cover works the same way now, but you can push the button again to jump to the person you are covering. I love being able to use it for movement.

Summoner choosing which of their big capstone summons they do (Phoenix or Bahamut in PvP, and in this case Bahamut with white paint too would be needed in PvE) would be nice. Hard to say how you would develop the choice in PvE since extra healing is rarely needed, but it'd be nice if the job with all the multi-colored Lego pieces didn't play in such a railroaded fashion- Summoner can have all the summons in the world but tbh it doesn't really matter so long as the game walks you from summon to summon as if you're a baby learning to move.

Dark Knight having HP spends would also be nice. The initial job quests revolve around putting yourself on the edge, but tbh that isn't reflected in the actual PvE job gameplay. This would probably alienate a lot of people by making it a hard job to play in content, but tbth I find it strange how FF14 allows people to change jobs at will while seemingly catering all jobs to the same kind of player / same skill level of player... usually your goal in this kind of system is to create varying difficulty levels and playstyles so you can appeal to a larger audience.

I don't think Machinist PvP can be used to help with Machinist PvE at all, but I would cross reference the two. Imo Summoner has a problem of being all visual flavor (summoning entities) but no gameplay flavor (they work like any other attack for any other class, just on a slight animation delay)... I feel like Machinist suffers a similar problem with having a machine component to the class that has lots of visual flavor, but is more of the same in terms of PvE gameplay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jason_Ashford

honestly i think SE may adjust a bunch of jobs in 8.0 to follow the Viper button stacking. It would cut down on a lot of the button bloat for many jobs and make it easier for controller players to get optimum dps

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Considering how vapid VPR is since it's just a glorified combo with a couple of CDs to insert here and there, I hope the button stacking actually follows pvp job design and not pve VPR, just saying. If anything with pve VPR, i'm not even sure why we still have the first and second step of the combo have branches at this point. The button input is always the same. Only the third one matters and only for positionals, which could be cut from 4 buttons down to 2 and it would still be the same inputs. This design is a sham and the dramatic part about it is that like reworked SMN, it makes the Action & Traits window incredibly bloated and obnoxious to make sense of (especially for new players), making it look like the job is galaxybrain when in reality it plays on autopilot.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Individual Limit breaks?

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Would replace LB1 and LB2 with some of them, yeah. Would make things more interactive, imagine being able to finish adds in a raid fights by ninja deathlink. Or meteodrive bahamut to interrupt his terraflare. Feelsgoodman

I want Fuma Shuriken to be useful.