The Case For and Against Third Party Tools

Alright, I’m going to come out and say it: Mods are a result of a game being played out for so long, in so many ways, it becomes boring/a chore. This dates all the way back when Steam first announced Steam Workshop. You could play a game, but if it has no REPLAY VALUE for the player after the fact(which XIV does in *some* content) for whatever content the player is seeking, they do one of the three:

A) Quit the game and play something else. - The most common answer.

B) Self-impose challenges on the gameplay itself(i.e. No Healer Clears).

C) Add Mods for flavor or for extra content that is generated by player creativity - or in some cases, for cheating.

While we do adhere to FFXIV’s EULA, Third Party Tools have been around for a long, long time - even all the way back in 2.0 with Parsers for raiding. The FFXIV Development Team in my opinion took down Mare because of the potential of it causing a security breach similar to what happened with the previous one since it looks at character data.

The other argument I’ve read in the other thread is that it’s because of MogStation Item Sales being down, though if the Developers decided this was the route to take action…they do not realize the irreparable harm they have caused to both XIV’s team(on top of what already has been seen as problematic in other topics/criticisms of the game) as well as the communities that see that for what it is: It’s all about the $$$$.

So, regardless of what optics are taken, it is a lose-lose for both sides short-term. Long Term we don’t know - but there are ramifications for the actions taken that I will quote Gabe for, as he said it best:

"Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem."

Look at FFXIV’s problems since post-patch Endwalker, and you’ll see the writing on the wall considering the development team themselves have looked to the Third Party Tools themselves for help with their Combat UI - but isn’t that a bit convenient the community is doing this because they want accessible options in the game? Yeah - and it’s a good problem to have because they have ideas that are getting flat-out ignored on XIV’s Dev Team until the community screeches in a cacophony about the elephant in the room that has not been addressed.

It’s not only hypocritical on their stance in regards to Mods, but also shows how they are lacking in their development. It has been said time and time again that content made in this game is not made to last with their development time - and the fact that Occult Crescent came out like slop does not help that problem either alongside what happened with Cosmic Exploration. The development cycle has also been discussed by various YouTubers(Rinon has a good video on this) and is a point of criticism.

So, what fills the void? Player Generated Content. Whether it be storytelling, or other activities like clubbing, when one has done all they wanted, this is where they turn to - and eventually, the modding scene if exposed enough. This is where I will stare at Mog Station and think “is this worth my money to buy for an aesthetic?” Considering we can preview it at an Inn Bed, it helps a lot before buying.

The problem with this however is monetization practices that have been getting more and more aggressive since the inception of the store. When Endwalker came around, there was a thread that had plenty of problems with Mog Station, but the main argument was the Quality of Unique Items compared to what we got in Dungeons which becomes reused assets that are undyeable. This was especially so when we got the Woodland Warden set, which was high quality compared to a bunch of sets in-game that were given from dungeons - and while this may be okay, it’s an issue when it is consistent.

What the XIV Development Team needs to take in mind is that if they don’t improve their service and listen in regards to glamour and content, then people may resort to piracy or third party tools to make content for themselves or just to look pretty. It’s a major issue that they need to figure out before 8.0 so they can implement it on launch instead of afterward(since there is still time in 7.3). As things stand, they are going to have to take a hardline stance on Third Party Tools eventually instead of the grey area they’re standing in right now along with their very white and black Terms of Service.

That said, I’d like to discuss this and look for a solution that doesn’t include mods or leads to them yet again if possible.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

"Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem."

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Ive just had a talk with a friend some weeks ago.
He said if he could have skipped the story he might still would have played ff14.
When i told him that theres a skipping option, he first didnt believe me until i told him you would have to take some extra steps and find the hidden online store, that is not available through the game ui.
Something unthinkable by today standard appearently.

For a bigger company like SQEX this should have been crystal clear since a long time allready.
Yet they refuse to even implement stuff that would increase their profits.

I agree that the issue is player-generated content. Many past MMOs were successful because they had systems that allowed players to create the content, to the point the devs didn't need to release content.

Everything is so safe, defined, and shallow to keep it simple for casual players, that the most long-term replayable content is PvP, S rank spawning, roleplaying, housing and glam. Maybe crafting/gatherering? I find that boring myself in this game. By long-term replayable content, I mean content people would still do 10 years later even if the devs didn't make any new content.

The case against third-party tools is that FFXIV is a cross-platform title available on a number of platforms without the same toolkit that you have on Windows for the Steam and standalone versions of the game. The only moderation policy that Square Enix can actually take is not allowing any third-party tools. Even more so when the idea of mods on console was a complete taboo when ARR first released on PS3 back in 2013. We've now got Xbox Series and potentially even Switch 2 as supported console platforms.

The biggest mistake that Square Enix made was the hands off "don't see, don't tell" stance. For better or worse, the game needs a course correction from this at the cost of actively moderating the PC (and macOS, to a lesser extent) game client. Mare, for example, had around 25k concurrent users when the closure announcement went out. That's unlikely to be more than 5% of the game's entire concurrent player count across all platforms given it happened during EU/NA prime time. There's also the elephant in the room of the Japanese player base with different norms around the usage of third-party tools.

While the modding community is vocal, any blip in player counts would be corrected once the next major patch and cash store items release. Not to mention that the next Fan Festivals and expansion announcement are both around the corner. They could absolutely pull this off, get away with it even.

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Originally Posted by Johners

The case against third-party tools is that FFXIV is a cross-platform title available on a number of platforms without the same toolkit that you have on Windows for the Steam and standalone versions of the game. The only moderation policy that Square Enix can actually take is not allowing any third-party tools. Even more so when the idea of mods on console was a complete taboo when ARR first released on PS3 back in 2013. We've now got Xbox Series and potentially even Switch 2 as supported console platforms.

The biggest mistake that Square Enix made was the hands off "don't see, don't tell" stance. For better or worse, the game needs a course correction from this at the cost of actively moderating the PC (and macOS, to a lesser extent) game client.

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When it comes to cross-platform, it's clear cut. XBOX has its own moderation tools(staring at you language censor), and Switch 2 already has its online features with Nintendo Accounts.

As for actively moderating the Game Client, this has been said in the past: They can't monitor the game client-side because they'd be breaking the law to do so - and implementing Anti-Cheat software will just bog down the game(as anti-cheat software can already be bypassed) and eat up your computer's resources. What's more, even at the kernel level, they can still bypass it.

This is where Client Side vs. Server Side is currently, and it's why modding continues as it does.

God forbid I use the Shtola hair that I paid for and took them years to make available for Viera.
God forbid I try out unique fun hair styles that they'll never bring or make possible in the game.
God forbid I make Seraph look like Titania, because that would be too cool!
God forbid I name my minions after pets I've lost to remember them.
God forbid I wear hats as Viera for years before they decide they're finally gonna support it nativley.
God forbid I wear Titania's outfit, which doesn't even exist in Mog Station. (I bought the one the have there too, that's besides the point)
God forbid I commit the crime of restoring the 1.0 Teleport sound because I can't stand the new one.
God forbid my friends can see all of these things automatically in game.
God forbid I take Krile's hoodie off because it's fun to see her with her ponytail.

These are all such evil demonic actions that destroy the integrity of such a perfect immaculate game!! OH THE HUMANITY, MAY ZODIARK KILL US ALL

Of course, I'd never do any of those things up there, because it's not allowed and I'm a law abiding fairy!

https://imgur.com/cXEMNk1.png

Hmm, weren't the chat bubbles that we recently got originally from a third party? lol.

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Originally Posted by Sunhwapark

Hmm, weren't the chat bubbles that we recently got originally from a third party? lol.

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Ayup. And they were actually a lot better before being yoinked by SE.

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Originally Posted by Sunhwapark

Hmm, weren't the chat bubbles that we recently got originally from a third party? lol.

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yeep. and they picked chat bubbles over actual useful things.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Alright, I’m going to come out and say it: Mods are a result of a game being played out for so long, in so many ways, it becomes boring/a chore.

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I would hard disagree with this. Take other games that allowed mods over the years...WoW had oodles of mods running even during WotLK, when the game had around 12 MILLION active players and was at the peak of its popularity. I don't see mods being the result of anything necessarily being "boring" or a "chore", just any way players feel something could either be improved further or added. Heck, look at modding communities that build up around various games - they often add characters, campaigns, units, etc., not because people are bored, but because they're having a blast and want to include even more stuff through fan-made content.

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Originally Posted by LotteYanson

Ive just had a talk with a friend some weeks ago.
He said if he could have skipped the story he might still would have played ff14.
When i told him that theres a skipping option, he first didnt believe me until i told him you would have to take some extra steps and find the hidden online store, that is not available through the game ui.
Something unthinkable by today standard appearently.

For a bigger company like SQEX this should have been crystal clear since a long time allready.
Yet they refuse to even implement stuff that would increase their profits.

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I am extremely happy they don't have the game shop tied to the in-game UI, but I don't know how your friend has no idea the cash shop exists when it's advertised on the launcher. If they could miss that then unless it's flashing in big bright colors right on the screen I doubt they'd have noticed it in-game too. I don't care how much money they make I don't want "BUY A SKIP, BUY A SKIP" being plastered on the game screen.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

snip

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Imagine they went down the route of streaming services where the lower priced subscription actually comes with ads in-game! It's unlikely they'd do it for players paying the top sub, and the Free Trialers have restricted access to stuff on the online store anyway so it would be pointless to advertise to them, but the basic sub... would not put it past any company to consider it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LotteYanson

Ive just had a talk with a friend some weeks ago.
He said if he could have skipped the story he might still would have played ff14.
When i told him that theres a skipping option, he first didnt believe me until i told him you would have to take some extra steps and find the hidden online store, that is not available through the game ui.
Something unthinkable by today standard appearently.

For a bigger company like SQEX this should have been crystal clear since a long time allready.
Yet they refuse to even implement stuff that would increase their profits.

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Finding their services is one thing, but paying them is another story. I pay my sub in 6 month lots and every time it involves about 3 days of finangling to get them to take my money, just because I moved to another country.

They have to be the WORST company I have EVER experienced to pay.

For example, I worked around this for a time by having my spouse (who lived where I am now the whole time, thus dodging my issue) buy me things from the store. Well, they removed that.

I go to find a work-around and ... oh, they won't take my VISA or Mastercards, for some reason. They won't let me buy Crysta. They won't let me use online payment options... wouldn't, I should say. Amazon Pay popped up as an option and it works... for now... because they always stop working.

For or against, at the end of the day it doesn't matter. They're against TOS so Square will ax them if they are so inclined. This was going to happen. Move on with your life.

Let's also not gloss over that stealing copyrighted assets to use as mods in 14 could also land SE in hot water. Maybe next time to be so blatantly obvious about your mod usage to force SEs hand.

I was totally fine with people using mods until I heard that there was underage content being made. Of course this is such a small minority of players but they have a massive impact on a company if that stuff were to take off or somehow make its way into the media. If I am a business owner nothing shuts my company down faster than underage modding, its gross and everyone religious, non religious , left , right , center white, black ect finds it repulsive.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

I am extremely happy they don't have the game shop tied to the in-game UI, but I don't know how your friend has no idea the cash shop exists when it's advertised on the launcher. If they could miss that then unless it's flashing in big bright colors right on the screen I doubt they'd have noticed it in-game too. I don't care how much money they make I don't want "BUY A SKIP, BUY A SKIP" being plastered on the game screen.

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Modern gamers dont have that much attention to read the launcher, they hit play and are happy it finally starts.
Obviously the implementation in the game UI could be without aggressive popups.
I would just like the purchaseflow to be better.
Ingame previews on your characters would also help often.
Imagine a preview of music scrolls that they offer that doesnt include to pray that some random guy on YT uploaded it
Mogstation is also annoying to navigate to renew your sub.
Upgrading from free trial to paid or buying a new expansion is the worst; it feels like they dont even want your money lol

They need to adopt to newer generations/modern standards if you like it or not doesnt matter.
Theres enough room to make both sides happy there.

On Mods, some of them are just quality of life upgrades, nothing that touches gameplay necessarily in a meaningful way...

The official Chat Bubbles are worse than the mod ones as I'm pretty sure they don't actually work in combat and you have to look over to the chat log to see messages and callouts in the middle of a fight.
And why would anyone dare to want to have pictures on loading screens, or an actual functional in-game ping meter...

And quite some time ago, on the topic of mods, I did hear that mods offer better accessibility features for stuff like color blindness than what SE themself have.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Alright, I’m going to come out and say it: Mods are a result of a game being played out for so long, in so many ways, it becomes boring/a chore. This dates all the way back when Steam first announced Steam Workshop. You could play a game, but if it has no REPLAY VALUE for the player after the fact(which XIV does in *some* content) for whatever content the player is seeking, they do one of the three:

A) Quit the game and play something else. - The most common answer.

B) Self-impose challenges on the gameplay itself(i.e. No Healer Clears).

C) Add Mods for flavor or for extra content that is generated by player creativity - or in some cases, for cheating.

While we do adhere to FFXIV’s EULA, Third Party Tools have been around for a long, long time - even all the way back in 2.0 with Parsers for raiding. The FFXIV Development Team in my opinion took down Mare because of the potential of it causing a security breach similar to what happened with the previous one since it looks at character data.

The other argument I’ve read in the other thread is that it’s because of MogStation Item Sales being down, though if the Developers decided this was the route to take action…they do not realize the irreparable harm they have caused to both XIV’s team(on top of what already has been seen as problematic in other topics/criticisms of the game) as well as the communities that see that for what it is: It’s all about the $$$$.

So, regardless of what optics are taken, it is a lose-lose for both sides short-term. Long Term we don’t know - but there are ramifications for the actions taken that I will quote Gabe for, as he said it best:

"Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem."

---

There IS NOT case.... it is stated it is not permitted with this software, so stop making up things, SE holds the Pink Slip on Final Fantasy, so that is the end of the story right there.

That does not mean that modifications does not exist and the likes, but the final say is with SquareEnix, not the Final Fantasy XIV team.

What SE should do, would be to like allow mods as they are with other games and even being able to apply them inside the game like you can in Baldurs Gate 3, that has a mod 'shop' in a figure of speech at no cost of course and with that SE could release a toolset for people to mod within certain borderlines and of course to be released in the possible mod shop, for all, Xbox, PS4/5 pro and PC, and of course needs to be approved by SE that would then host the mod on one of their servers.

Would be quite popular if such feature would exist for cosmetic stuff and the second thing would just have it and then release cool stuff made by players as new set items that is craftable in simple ways.

My opinion is strictly against all and any types of mod including UI and QoL stuff

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Alright, I’m going to come out and say it: Mods are a result of a game being played out for so long, in so many ways, it becomes boring/a chore. This dates all the way back when Steam first announced Steam Workshop. You could play a game, but if it has no REPLAY VALUE for the player after the fact(which XIV does in *some* content) for whatever content the player is seeking, they do one of the three:

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I think you're totally wrong. Mods are created to add to the game to enhance their current experience and if anything take the pressure off of the dev team. Take chat bubbles apparently they were created years ago but we're just getting them now, SE wouldnt have had to make them. Majority who make mods only make them while they're enjoying the game.

Mods are against ToS. Always have been, always will be. Doesn’t matter how many essay threads people write about “community” or “creativity,” it’s still against the Terms of Service. If you’re bored of the game without third-party tools, maybe that just means it’s time to unsub twin. Ya'll were told to move in silence years ago. But instead people kept tip toeing over the line and adding MARE LAMENTORUM to their adventure plates. You reap what you sow

https://lore.capital/f/img/ffxiv/ENQ...2XVZct6DWQ.gif

i just wish the FOV wouldnt be this bad without 3rd party stuff (not that i'd ever use them)