It's not the RNG, its the implementation of the system

So when it comes to demiatma and all the complaints ppl have about it, it really isn't about the rng or how big or small the drop rates are, its about how the system as a whole was implemented.

Let's take FFXI as an example. When it came to making a mythic weapon, there are multiple steps, but one of them is collecting 30,000 alexandrite, that don't have large drop rates by any means, so the amount seems daunting. However, not only can you run the content that these items drop from, you can also suppliment your farming by doing other tasks and buying them from players. You can craft, farm currency from dynamis to sell, etc. so there is always a steady growth towards your goal that can be accomplished multiple ways, and none of these ways were particularly easier than another. They all required effort.

But the big thing they got right, even if the number of alex you need is way too high, is that you always felt like you were working your way toward a goal. You saw the insanely high number, get smaller and smaller with each piece of content you tackled. So, while the number was insanely high and grind was a total pain, it didn't really feel so bad because you always felt like you were making advances toward your goal.

But here we have 1 piece of content to farm from, and it is yet another set of fates which is about the most boring and phone-it-in sort of content that has been a crutch for this game since its rebranding. And then to add insult to injury you can only farm certain demimateria from certain parts of the zone, some of which like the SW corner, are far more limited on chances for demimateria than the others.

You cannot buy demimateria, you cannot trade demimateria and you cannot trade them in to an npc that will exchange them for the ones you need.

So when you are farming these items it is completely possible to get 20 of 1 type and 0 of another. There is no feeling of working toward your goal, which in turn makes the entire grind feel waaay worse and punishing than it should.

It feels bad to farm the most tedious and boring content type for hours and hours, day after day and get drops that you can do nothing with outside of dropping them. They really should have made either 1 demimateria type and had us turn them in or they should have added a vendor that would have traded the materia you need on a 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 basis. Or givin us a repeatable daily quest like they did in ARR to get 1 drop per day in other pieces of content. If they were really smart they would add multiple that required different content and only allow 1 per day out of the bunch. Win 3 pvp matches, run all 3 Nier raids, complete 3 different exteremes, etc etc.

If they wanted to add this sort of content they should also have taken notes from Abyssea, again from FFXI. Have fates, but also have spawnable NMs, roaming NMs, Voidwalker NMs which require some hunting, etc. Locking the gear behind killing these NMs also would have been way better and more exciting than locking them behind a zone-specific currency. Also require the killing of trash mobs to get items to spawn these NMs, let you gain a lil experience and get random drops, like catch-up gear, crafting items and even vendor junk. It would have added a lot of fun and thrill to an old, tired and just plain boring system.

Grinding is not a bad thing. But when a company adds a grind this tedious that does not in any way feel rewarding you are going to have push back. It's not always "PeOpLe JuSt WaNt EvErYtHiNg HaNdEd To ThEm." and that is not the way to hand wave off ppl's responce to this horrible design choice and just makes you sound like our grandparents complaning about kids these days.

SE needs a better system and new types of content. The hallway/room/fate crutch is uninspired and tedious, esp when you are locked into it by a gods awful, unrewarding grind.

Note: You can also get each type of demiatma from each of the 6 DT zones. For me, I never got around to maxing out the FATE levels when DT first released, so I'm just doing that now. Doing exactly what you mentioned - chipping away at the "large" number of FATEs required in each zone while simultaneously picking up the demiatma I need along the way.

there are also a lot of people who just want the relic, this happens every expansion EW was the only one with the opposite side mad because they were the ones who liked the terrible relic system to begin with.

alittle side tracked but back to topic since people only want the relic they dont care or even want to do the content that the relic is thrown in each expansion it makes the whole thing tedious and boring to them which funnily enough totally makes the system pointless because the system is to just waste time and play the game.

look at demiatma's you can literally just not care and play the content lvl up phantom jobs get level 20 collect your rewards and you will just eventually be handed the relic weapon by enjoying the content and if at any time you feel tired of FO you can just choose to fate in DT zones for rewards out there, but why is it a problem? sure rng can feel bad but it only feels bad when its your only goal and all you want, so if the relic is the only thing you want what its attached to doesnt matter, all that matters is you get your reward.

my last comment is the one i will always bring up, putting the relic in old content/new content/bad content doesnt make the content fresh/better or even good it just makes it something people have to do to get the relic and we see it every expansion where people will do content they completely hate to get a relic and that defeats the purpose of the relic.

Unlike XIV the REMA in XI are worth your time investment. The weapons aren't replaced by a new expansion.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Note: You can also get each type of demiatma from each of the 6 DT zones. For me, I never got around to maxing out the FATE levels when DT first released, so I'm just doing that now. Doing exactly what you mentioned - chipping away at the "large" number of FATEs required in each zone while simultaneously picking up the demiatma I need along the way.

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Same here..
I went inside OC with two friends, got a few demimateria there (almost 1 of each) but thought it's a pain to keep doing it in OC..
So I did the FATEs in the 6 DT Zones.. Found a group in pf or made one myself, there's always at least one other player who will join you..
And I can level up my FATE levels..

I'm so happy that I'm done with the demimateria, though I still have to max out 4 DT Zones..
Still missing the ShB Zones too xD


For me personally the best relic in terms of steps is still the lvl 60 Heavensward Relic..
Every step was different..
Yeah, the first step is FATE Farming, but even that isn't such a pain compared to the recent stuff..

My personal favorite for the lvl 60 relic is the one where you have to feed your weapon and get to decide on the substats..
To get the mats you had so many options and I did those with my crafter.. getting crafter tokens and turning them in into special letters you need to get the mats..

I wasn't a fan of Eureka.. Still grinded one relic till the end..
Bozja was okayish because you didn't have to grind in there to get the weapon..
But the one step where you can do Delubrum (normal) to get the special item or going into palace of the dead where you maybe get it by luck was such a no go for me..
Even there I only finished one Relic (let's not talk about the end design, it's just awful) and I actually wanna get the others too..
I'm a collector.. But it's such a huge pain to do the Delubrum runs now.. Cause you can't queue for it like you usually do, you have to wait for a pf group or make one yourself..

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Originally Posted by KazuyaKurogane

But it's such a huge pain to do the Delubrum runs now.. Cause you can't queue for it like you usually do, you have to wait for a pf group or make one yourself..

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It's not that bad on Chaos/Light to get an 8-man to fill in a decent time.
It's the mandatory 10 minute queue time that you have to go through each time you want to do the thing.

That's the bit they need to remove.

"Got a full party? Cool, in you go."

This is the mystery to me, why they keep this mandatory time.
All it takes is 1 person to DC or get tired or "insert reason" and you're back to waiting 10mins all over again.

They should make this stuff easier to access after it's not current, not harder.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Note: You can also get each type of demiatma from each of the 6 DT zones. For me, I never got around to maxing out the FATE levels when DT first released, so I'm just doing that now. Doing exactly what you mentioned - chipping away at the "large" number of FATEs required in each zone while simultaneously picking up the demiatma I need along the way.

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I feel like getting them in OC or from Dawntrail FATEs are supposed to be two different ways for different types of people, but the way it's implemented even if you just want to do the new content you should get as many as you can stand in OC and then do FATEs to finish because it sucks getting specific things in OC. The FATEs are more of a band-aid than an alternate acquisition method.

It also didn't help me as I had already finished FATEs for the zones I needed atmas from but I still need some FATEs from other zones.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

When it came to making a mythic weapon, there are multiple steps, but one of them is collecting 30,000 alexandrite, that don't have large drop rates by any means, so the amount seems daunting. However, not only can you run the content that these items drop from, you can also suppliment your farming by doing other tasks and buying them from players. You can craft, farm currency from dynamis to sell, etc. so there is always a steady growth towards your goal that can be accomplished multiple ways, and none of these ways were particularly easier than another. They all required effort.

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Seems similar to gemstone vouchers. But I don't support that idea anyway because I want to do new content like Occult Crescent and copying gemstone vouchers wouldn't lend itself to that.

The issue is also that they tried something similar with tomestones and basically everyone caps those anyway by the content they do already, often through hunt trains if not through expert. So in effect, it was a handout.

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it is yet another set of fates which is about the most boring and phone-it-in sort of content

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Sorry that you think CEs are FATEs. I personally disagree.

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you can only farm certain demimateria from certain parts of the zone, some of which like the SW corner, are far more limited on chances for demimateria than the others.

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It would really help for it to just be 1 type of atma that you get from the entire zone. It would really solve the problems with this.

But you'll get them eventually and I think a lot of people's problem is actually with their own OCD issues with struggling to discard excessive Atma.

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Have fates, but also have spawnable NMs, roaming NMs, Voidwalker NMs which require some hunting, etc. Locking the gear behind killing these NMs also would have been way better and more exciting than locking them behind a zone-specific currency.

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We have FATEs and spawnable CEs. I don't know why they removed roaming hunts - probably because people ignored them in Bozja.

The complexity of spawning NMs didn't continue from Eureka because clearly it was unpopular and nobody except me hardly spoke positively about Eureka in Stormblood. Ultimately we are in this boat because SE listened to these forums and look where it got us - I hope everyone's happy with it since they asked for it to be dumbed down like this.

Looting gear was also a problem in Eureka. It was rare to get and really just an annoyance since you could do Eureka for years and not get it. A currency prevents those issues.

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Originally Posted by Lollerblades

Unlike XIV the REMA in XI are worth your time investment. The weapons aren't replaced by a new expansion.

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It's REMAP now too since they added Prime weapons, and even in their 25 year old game they were still able to make it more engaging than whatever they were doing here.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

We have FATEs and spawnable CEs. I don't know why they removed roaming hunts - probably because people ignored them in Bozja.
The complexity of spawning NMs didn't continue from Eureka because clearly it was unpopular and nobody except me hardly spoke positively about Eureka in Stormblood. Ultimately we are in this boat because SE listened to these forums and look where it got us - I hope everyone's happy with it since they asked for it to be dumbed down like this.
Looting gear was also a problem in Eureka. It was rare to get and really just an annoyance since you could do Eureka for years and not get it. A currency prevents those issues.

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All this tells me is that you never played Abyssea content in FFXI so you don't really know what you are comparing, but you are doing so anyway while making excuses for reasons.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

All this tells me is that you never played Abyssea content in FFXI

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I didn't. I was going by your description.

Your point seems to centre on the idea that most people don’t have to luck to get an even distribution of atma so you can often be stuck in OC with 3/3/3/4/3/0 and the zone you have zero from just won’t spawn anything. This is agreeably pretty frustrating and annoying because Bozja already fixed this problem by when it had in instance zone based currency there were usually fates up in every zone.

However this was already internally compensated for by the fact that the DT fates only drop a single type each so you can seek out ONLY the one you want if you have an uneven distribution.

So it’s really easy to just play OC till you have a distribution that looks something like 3/2/3/7/6/1 and then either choose to target the zone fates for the remaining ones or otherwise just keep grinding in OC until you get them by chance while levelling up phantom jobs. The chance of not having all the atma by the time you are +12 is astronomically small

took me a week to get all the demiatma to turn in for the first stage relic to keep from getting bord i mixed it up and did oc and dt areas with map of where and what atma droped