Even zone design and traversal is formulaic

I just returned and this is my 3rd attempt trying to get through Dawntrail MSQ.

Did it start in Endwalker? Zone design and traversal is:
Zone 1A - explore lower area, then go to Zone 2. (Only 50% aether current)
Zone 2A - explore lower area, then go to Zone 1 again. (only 50% aether current)
Zone 1B - explore higher altitude area, then flying unlocked
Zone 2B - explore higher altitude area; then flying unlocked

Like what is this again and again? and why must it be repeated in Dawntrail? Can they innovate and surprise us abit? I think what’s aggravating to me is I see formulaic everywhere with every expansion and patches. Everything follows a set rule. A set number of dungeon every patch, a set of pulls , a set of this that. Everything is following some set rule.


It just takes the immersion away because I just knew exactly when the second half of Aether currents will show up and those blue quests will show up.

Can they surprise us a bit and go create something completely new and random? And I’m not talking just about the zones anymore.

What would changing it up really achieve? Would it be more fun to finish Zone 1? Or maybe you want to finish only 20% aether currents?

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Did it start in Endwalker?

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It started with Heavensward, though it is the least prominent there, where you only have access to a portion, less than half, of the Sea of Clouds on first visit, then you have half of The Fringes and The Peaks in Stormblood, then you half half Amh Araeng and Kholusia in Shadowbringers, then half of Labyrinthos and Thavnair in Endwalker, then half of Urqopacha and Kozama'uka in Dawntrail.

It's repetitive, but of all formulaic aspects of the game, it's the one that is least consequential, I think the only consequence is that you can tell you will be revisiting that map in particular, and so the first story segment there will be perhaps shorter.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

What would changing it up really achieve? Would it be more fun to finish Zone 1? Or maybe you want to finish only 20% aether currents?

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All I'm saying is that it is very immersive breaking, knowing at at Urqopacha, I saw an aether current on a cliff, and I immediately knew it's locked away until I return for the 2nd time to this zone.

Like immediately I knew it's part of the formula, like someone got this planned on a spreadsheet already. Which I know they probably do.

And to your suggestion of 20%. Maybe? Surprise us. Design something new.

I know this is a small thing, but it's just part of a trend.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

It started with Heavensward, though it is the least prominent there, where you only have access to a portion, less than half, of the Sea of Clouds on first visit, then you have half of The Fringes and The Peaks in Stormblood, then you half half Amh Araeng and Kholusia in Shadowbringers, then half of Labyrinthos and Thavnair in Endwalker, then half of Urqopacha and Kozama'uka in Dawntrail.

It's repetitive, but of all formulaic aspects of the game, it's the one that is least consequential, I think the only consequence is that you can tell you will be revisiting that map in particular, and so the first story segment there will be perhaps shorter.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Did it start in Endwalker? Zone design and traversal is:
Zone 1A - explore lower area, then go to Zone 2. (Only 50% aether current)
Zone 2A - explore lower area, then go to Zone 1 again. (only 50% aether current)
Zone 1B - explore higher altitude area, then flying unlocked
Zone 2B - explore higher altitude area; then flying unlocked

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Endwalker in fact was:
1A
2A
3
4
2B
1B
Plus 1A and 2A in EW were the higher area, while 1B and 2B were lower. It think that was a nice change of pace, and a lot of surprise to me.

Just kidding you, personally I can't stand it when they split the zones in 2. When I start a zone, I want to end it, then continue on. But that's just me, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Did it start in Endwalker? Zone design and traversal is

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The formula we have today has been there almost entirely since Heavensward. Changes has been rare, but when it has changed, it's also become a part of said formula.

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I think what’s aggravating to me is I see formulaic everywhere with every expansion and patches. Everything follows a set rule. A set number of dungeon every patch, a set of pulls , a set of this that. Everything is following some set rule.

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To a degree it needs to though. If they don't have a set number of dungeons, and only have them when the story naturally demands it, the result is potentially just 1 or 2 dungeons and trials at the end. And then people would say that's predictable! But so are films predictable - we know the protagonist will win. It's about how they win.

Consistency with pulls is mostly to do with an issue that actually still exists in some ARR dungeons where you can pull something like 10 mob packs. And although it is easier to deal with now, the further back in time you go, a lot of healers could not handle it with the kit they had or it depended a lot on all 4 players being good at playing, which isn't realistic when there's almost always 1 or more new/returning players.

With consistency, I know what I'm getting so I can safely get a 6 month subscription.

You're right that you can predict how the story goes quite a lot by the level of FATEs in the area and knowing that you will get a dungeon at X1, X3, X5, X7, X9, X0 and trials at X3, X9 and X0. But if they didn't do that then it's not spaced out enough. ARR suffers from that where you suddenly do 3 dungeons in a row, then nothing for ages, and it's tedious enough that when I get to them it's time to sleep so I'm recharged to do them the next day.

Everything about the game is formulaic, literally.

It's funny, when I played through Dawntrail I actually felt like the way the split zones were handled were a shakeup from the normal formula-both zone return visits happen soon after the first visit, compared to previous expansions where at least one of the split zones isn't completed until much later in the story after other zones have been finished.

I do agree though that a stronger change in formula would be appreciated. My main concern is the "change" would just be less zones overall.

The formula can definitely change. each zone should be a mini-FFXIV with its own simple progression system like those Genshin events with colorful and smooth UIs.

Everything in this game follows one base formula, that’s why I don’t believe 8.0 will be anything groundbreaking. If they changed the game to play more like WoW or GW2 with a lot more freedom of choice and how to play, and an OW that is not a pattern then some people might actually hate it.

The only well designed Zone is Shaaloani.

Just one big area, no walls, no cliffs or mountains that block your path.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

The only well designed Zone is Shaaloani.

Just one big area, no walls, no cliffs or mountains that block your path.

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Shaaloani is literally the zone with an obvious cliff marking the edge of the map:

https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...0c57997bc0.jpg

Like, how even is this "well designed" or "immersive"? :confused:

They design the zones to be set pieces for the story and that is literally it. After that the story is done they are forgotten and discarded.

I think the initial formula is probably okay for expansion release. The failure happens afterwards in giving us very few reasons to go back to zones once an expansion is passed.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Consistency with pulls is mostly to do with an issue that actually still exists in some ARR dungeons where you can pull something like 10 mob packs. And although it is easier to deal with now, the further back in time you go, a lot of healers could not handle it with the kit they had or it depended a lot on all 4 players being good at playing, which isn't realistic when there's almost always 1 or more new/returning players.

You're right that you can predict how the story goes quite a lot by the level of FATEs in the area and knowing that you will get a dungeon at X1, X3, X5, X7, X9, X0 and trials at X3, X9 and X0. But if they didn't do that then it's not spaced out enough. ARR suffers from that where you suddenly do 3 dungeons in a row, then nothing for ages, and it's tedious enough that when I get to them it's time to sleep so I'm recharged to do them the next day.

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You know what. I'd rather take the unpredictability of ARR, knowing that nothing is expected, and you don't know when the next set of Dungeons or Trials are coming.

Give me dungeons and trials and random intervals.

Give me variety of dungeon pulls, while you're at it, give me a dungeon with 2 bosses only, then with 6 bosses.

Give me a zone that is super small, then a super large one with 6 sections.

To be honest, I know this is trivial. And it probably would not have triggered me if this was the only case. But because this formulaic-style just permeates and continues in every aspect, even new tome stones patch number X, new Augmented gear in patch number Y, it becomes so aggravating knowing that I got immersion-broken even by seeing an Aether Current up on a cliff that I knew I couldn't reach yet, because the "second upper half of the zone is still locked away".

10 level just dont work as well as the 50 during ARR did and we did get more dungeons back then on the 50 cap... ik many dont care about em but its part the reason the game became way less fun to me...

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Shaaloani is literally the zone with an obvious cliff marking the edge of the map:

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don't play stupid man, you know wha i mean...

https://i.imgur.com/1FRSCDZ.jpeg

I kinda wish we can actually climb the cliff that divides Urqopacha… well, and any other of these ‘dividing walls’ we have in many zones. Idc about the fall damage or the hazards it entails by doing so.

Just.let.me.walk.pass.these.arbitrary.walls.without.flying

Yea I kinda dont like how it has to be exactly 6 zones + 2 cities. Using one of those full zones on the Golden City felt like waste.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

The only well designed Zone is Shaaloani.

Just one big area, no walls, no cliffs or mountains that block your path.

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Most of the zones are "pretty" but have no substance. Shaloaani and other zones have a plethora of prop buildings that you can't enter because they can't be arsed to design interiors of houses and make them look actually lived in. NPC's are just posted outside all "howdy! It's a good day for fishing, heheh!"

To be perfectly fair Dawntrail is the first expansion where there has actually been some interiors being modeled. Not a lot of them like in ARR, but certainly more than the 1% of every other expansion. If you go to most settlements they do have interiors here and there, sparsely. I take what I can and consider this an improvement.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

don't play stupid man, you know wha i mean...

https://i.imgur.com/1FRSCDZ.jpeg

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None of what you've highlighted has anything to do with the design of the zones. Indeed, as an adventurer, you would expect there to be natural and artificial features blocking your path.

The actual problem is that when our so-called adventurer (the WoL) asks, "How do I go over there?" FFXIV's answer is inevitably, "You've got one option: Do more MSQ."

If this were Shadowbringers, we would have been able to go after the light wardens in whatever order we pleased. If this were Dawntrail, we would have been able to do the various tablets of the right of succession in whatever order we pleased.

But instead, we're forced into one specific order, and one specific path. The initial split at the start of the expansion is merely to avoid another Raubahn EX.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

Shaloaani and other zones have a plethora of prop buildings that you can't enter because they can't be arsed to design interiors of houses and make them look actually lived in.

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That has been a thing since ARR.

The big difference is that ARR buildings at least had the decency to put a "No Entry" sign in front of doors you couldn't go through.

With the instance system, it should be possible to have just a 1 zone filter shouldn’t it? I don’t know if it would make the expansion feel more distinct, but if they write a story without that restriction they might be less constrained.
Really it’s bookended with the final zone - the story building up a sense of urgency only to spend 90 minutes helping npcs tie their shoelaces. Having a postgame half zone (even as an underground cave system or cavern) could be interesting and help with making the patches feel slightly less like a rehash - then again the goose that lays the golden egg actually being respected is good to see.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

That has been a thing since ARR.

The big difference is that ARR buildings at least had the decency to put a "No Entry" sign in front of doors you couldn't go through.

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ARR was the only time where you had a significant amount of buildings in the zones that you could enter.
The smaller zones also had more small details in the environment, be it clutter, camps, interiors or just NPCs doing their thing.

Then ever since basically Heavensward, and the introduction of flying, the zones became huge but rather bland and lifeless.

The half-half structure wouldn't even be bad if the zones themselves were designed interestingly and immersively. Currently replaying ARR on an alt and I am blown away by how awesome it is going through those zones for MSQ. It really was peak and I unironically dislike everyone who says ARR has the worst zones. Fools, the lot of them.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

ARR was the only time where you had a significant amount of buildings in the zones that you could enter.
The smaller zones also had more small details in the environment, be it clutter, camps, interiors or just NPCs doing their thing.

Then ever since basically Heavensward, and the introduction of flying, the zones became huge but rather bland and lifeless.

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ARR has over 40 enterable buildings/rooms with doors that open and close. I've counted. ShB, the expansion fools say has the best zones, only has 12ish enterable buildings. I've counted. LAME!!!