The Warrior of Light rejoined

Bullet points of how I imagine it would go...

1. We reach the part of the story where we become fully rejoined

2. Through the echo of our own memories we merge with our past selves, becoming two Ancients in one ( the Graha treatment )

3. Wake up in Elpis or somewhere else in the old world

4. Find Hermes and convince him not to send his Meteion flock into space

5. Timeline splits

6. We travel with Hermes and our other favorite Acians, around Etheirys and space

7. Explore the 6 worlds we see in The Dead Ends dungeon as well as on Ultima Thule

8. Omicrons could be the big threat

9. Save the dragons home Dragonstar, stop the war between the two factions, cure the disease etc

An idea if they continue the story after the new ten year arc.

Personally I think this is cool asf. Do see that folks are not keen on the idea of being rejoined and I can see that side too. Azem was involved in the study of teleportations. I'm more inclined to believe w/ Foresight Azem learned of the sundering and decided to focus on traveling between worlds rather than preventing the sundering. I would think Azem might even agree with the idea that the ancient world was going to fall eventually even without Hydaelyn.

'Becoming Azem again' so goes against a lot of what's being explored in Dawntrail's post patches -- especially 7.2. No matter how many soul shards or magic McGuffins we get, the Warrior of Light can never become Azem again. They would have to give up their memories, their self to do so. I don't think Azem would want anyone to do that that at all.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

'Becoming Azem again' so goes against a lot of what's being explored in Dawntrail's post patches -- especially 7.2. No matter how many soul shards or magic McGuffins we get, the Warrior of Light can never become Azem again. They would have to give up their memories, their self to do so. I don't think Azem would want anyone to do that that at all.

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That’s the thing many don’t understand.
A full rejoining wouldn’t end in everyone becoming like the ancients again.
You would still have Miqo’te and Lalas running around because their change was evolutionary. There is no tipping point where everyone becomes “normal again”.
That’s also why the plan of the ascians was kinda faulty.
They would have gotten the longevity back but not the personality and culture of the ancients.
A race that still experienced war and strife and would have hated the Ascians in part because they lost their culture and loved ones because of them.

If anything the sundered Ascians are probably the closest to what everyone would be from personality and viewpoint.

@topic
That is something that is brought up often but I don’t like it.
Going full circle in the past goes against the entire journey we had of letting go of the past and that the “faulty” races can overcome their shortcomings to resolve odds against them.
I don’t play Azem, nor do I want to.
I play the WoL, the adventurer.
Azem is dead and only their legacy remains.
Let the ancients rest finally.

It would also diminish Ardberts sacrifice for me personally if we just go around rejoining anyway.
So from me it gets a hard no.

I understand that people would find that interesting and fun but it’s honestly not for me and I found the Elpis section more creepy than anything else honestly…

I'd say it's a distinct possibility that the WoL and Azem are the same person, not just the former being the sundered successor to the latter. imo, there's a reason why the writers ended the Void arc (heh) with OG Golbez's memoria crystal still being in play--so we could eventually rejoin with it (since OG Golbez is totally an Azem shard). Azem vanished during the Final Days which seems very out-of-character for them given what we know about them. We know they were very close with Emet-Selch, Hythlodaeus, and Venat. Does it really make sense for Azem, if they were anything at all like the WoL, to completely abandon their closest friends in their hour of greatest need? No, not unless they absolutely had to.

My suspicion is that Azem knew that the Final Days were inevitable, but also knew that at some point after the world is sundered, and only then, some path will open up to allow the a fully rejoined WoL to travel back in time and create a second timeline in which the ancient world survives, thus allowing both the sundered world and the unsundered world to exist simultaneously. And in order for all that to happen, they cannot be present during the Final Days for some yet-to-be-revealed reason. To me, Azem is totally the type to think that saving one world just isn't enough, and deciding that they want to save all their friends, past and present.

"Time circles endlessly, the hands of fate trained ahead" ends up being true.

That's why I'm so excited for 8.0. I'd like us to finally follow in Azem's footsteps, to see what he was doing in the final days other than being on Aloalo (you know, for the key), unless Aloalo is his final destination...

After all, it's not like we've been teased with Meracydia for a while now. I'm mainly talking about the Azeyma symbols on the Meracydian ruins in Azys Lla, or even the possibility that if Meracydia is based on a strong Egyptian cultural influence, we could see the connection with the sun (Azem's crystal + Azeyma's affinity and his own symbol).

Bonus points if there are still descendants of the Allagans in Meracydia, but not classic citizens, but rather resistance groups affiliated with Phlegeton who stayed to help rebuild the continent and repair the damage caused by the war.

I'll try to color it so you need to drag over it to read.

My take on the Ancients' Society as a whole:

While they were cognizant of the potential for chaos and destruction if they just let anyone make anything without any checks, balances, and a plan (that's good), in many ways they were also child-like, and arrogant in their ignorance and naivety. For instance, they were so certain *they* were the epitome of existence on the star, and that because *they* had never detected a soul in many creatures, it simply didn't exist. (They were later proven wrong in that by the Alexandrians, ahem.) Hermes had a compassion (in some ways) far beyond his peers, and the lack of it in his peers eventually drove him insane. Even Venat, Hythlodeus, and Hades struggled to comprehend his pain, although Venat probably came closest to understanding it, because she had experience with so much in the wider world.

In short he was told to "get over it," when he couldn't with the people the way they were.

But he, too, had some of his people's inexperience and callousness without realizing it (just like them): he created child-like beings, then sent them off to encounter whatever, *without the knowledge, experience, and adult-reasoning level, to cope with what they found.* All because he wanted proof from out there to try to *make* his society see the rights of other creatures, when the problem was right there on his own star, as were answers. He never once thought of the damage it could do *to* Meteon and her sisters (who, by the way, seemed more automatons in his eyes than true sisters, I think).

Ultimately it was the society's refusal to even consider there was anything wrong with what they did ("because we're gods") that kicked everything off, and after it all blew up with the confrontation at Kairos, only Venat and the ones she convinced to help her were willing to admit that. Those who would not, went the Zodiark route and ended up inadvertently tempering themselves. Venat realized the people needed to "grow up" by experience, and the only way to do that was to take away their god-like powers (and prevented the second "sacrifice" btw. They had to grow strong enough to resist Despair, and to *value* life despite suffering.

So, bearing in mind what I said above in my "spoilers so hiding this" post... well, I can see how your (OP's) premise could be entertaining, but it definitely wrecks a whole lot of story, and negates that entire "maturation process," so no---I don't think I'd enjoy it. Glad you enjoy speculating on it, but nope: to me it's fanfic I'd rather not see turned into canon. (I wasn't very happy with the "Tales" story that created the "branching timeline" for the G'raha past, either.)

Now, on what Arkhyna said, sure: it would be fun to find out a bit more what Azem did after the Sundering, and also, I do want us to get to check out Meracydia... but present day version of it, for sure. There's also plenty of worlds out there to explore if we ever get this Cosmic Exploration thing off the ground, lol.

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Originally Posted by Nana_Bear

I'll try to color it so you need to drag over it to read.

My take on the Ancients' Society as a whole:

While they were cognizant of the potential for chaos and destruction if they just let anyone make anything without any checks, balances, and a plan (that's good), in many ways they were also child-like, and arrogant in their ignorance and naivety. For instance, they were so certain *they* were the epitome of existence on the star, and that because *they* had never detected a soul in many creatures, it simply didn't exist. (They were later proven wrong in that by the Alexandrians, ahem.) Hermes had a compassion (in some ways) far beyond his peers, and the lack of it in his peers eventually drove him insane. Even Venat, Hythlodeus, and Hades struggled to comprehend his pain, although Venat probably came closest to understanding it, because she had experience with so much in the wider world.

In short he was told to "get over it," when he couldn't with the people the way they were.

But he, too, had some of his people's inexperience and callousness without realizing it (just like them): he created child-like beings, then sent them off to encounter whatever, *without the knowledge, experience, and adult-reasoning level, to cope with what they found.* All because he wanted proof from out there to try to *make* his society see the rights of other creatures, when the problem was right there on his own star, as were answers. He never once thought of the damage it could do *to* Meteon and her sisters (who, by the way, seemed more automatons in his eyes than true sisters, I think).

Ultimately it was the society's refusal to even consider there was anything wrong with what they did ("because we're gods") that kicked everything off, and after it all blew up with the confrontation at Kairos, only Venat and the ones she convinced to help her were willing to admit that. Those who would not, went the Zodiark route and ended up inadvertently tempering themselves. Venat realized the people needed to "grow up" by experience, and the only way to do that was to take away their god-like powers (and prevented the second "sacrifice" btw. They had to grow strong enough to resist Despair, and to *value* life despite suffering.

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"HB" tags (think "hidden box") are much better for concealing spoilers.

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Originally Posted by Nana_Bear

I wasn't very happy with the "Tales" story that created the "branching timeline" for the G'raha past, either.

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The Tales story didn't "create" the branching timeline – that's a logical conclusion of the wider plot. What it does create (and I thoroughly dislike) is that they wrote a happy ending that makes it seem like the entire plot is a waste. The whole point was supposed to be that the other timeline's world had no hope of salvage and all they could do was send G'raha into the past before the aether-killing effects of Black Rose claimed everything.

Now we've got dear Raha mourning lost friends who are actually perfectly fine, and it feels cheap.

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Originally Posted by Arkhyna

That's why I'm so excited for 8.0. I'd like us to finally follow in Azem's footsteps, to see what he was doing in the final days other than being on Aloalo (you know, for the key), unless Aloalo is his final destination...

After all, it's not like we've been teased with Meracydia for a while now. I'm mainly talking about the Azeyma symbols on the Meracydian ruins in Azys Lla, or even the possibility that if Meracydia is based on a strong Egyptian cultural influence, we could see the connection with the sun (Azem's crystal + Azeyma's affinity and his own symbol).

Bonus points if there are still descendants of the Allagans in Meracydia, but not classic citizens, but rather resistance groups affiliated with Phlegeton who stayed to help rebuild the continent and repair the damage caused by the war.

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Not to mention that Tiamat likely returned there and could become part of whatever story could happen there.

I think there's potential for this and would be really cool to meet other shards of Azem, just to maybe give us a glimpse into their adventures, especially after (Shadowbringers and Ardbert), I'd love to see more of that! ❤️

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Originally Posted by Iscah

"HB" tags (think "hidden box") are much better for concealing spoilers.

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Thanks! :D Still getting used to the bells n whistles on here (I'm an old tech-dinosaur, and family who would know were busy and I didn't want to interrupt them). Appreciated!

So a story where the ascians win?

Why do people think fully rejoining will make the WOL “become” azem as they were before the rejoining

Azem is gone, we are simply his/her largest shard. Fusing with ardbert didn’t in any way overwrite any part of our personality

If we fully rejoined we’d just become an immortal version of our self who is probably taller and has better control over creation magics

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Originally Posted by BunnyBrat

So a story where the ascians win?

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A story where the Ancients never turn into Ascians. No Zodiark -> no servants of the Dark Lord.

But this will never happen, because (quoting Elidibus' words from Hope upon a Flower):

Yet even should you manage to interact with others, you will be unable to effect meaningful change.
For the reality you wish to save—the reality to which you must return—exists as a result of the Final Days.
You cannot reshape the past to undo the tragedies of the present. Cannot unmake the sorrow and suffering fated to come.

Or with other words: Time travel never works as expected. Or unexpected. In the end, it never works.

Except for Graha Tia, who did exactly this (travel into the past to undo the tragedies of the present).

Say, do you guys read Harry Potter? Remember how the Hocruxes work? I'd imagine it's similarly like that. You lose Part of your soul, and you'll be a little different and one less of yourselves. But at your sub-conciousness there is always a nagging familiarity in the people and things around... It's like you seem to know it and you don't at the same time.

So maybe that's how the sundering does...Maybe each sundered soul plays a part of its destiny. Maybe Azem already lost the essence of his own soul and part of him plays the bad guy while the part of him plays a good guy.. and that very soul starts combating such great conflict because of it.
And maybe Haedalyn all this while was trying to keep the good part of that soul alive as she once knew... and she was conflicted with such pain and enduring chaos; and she's like eff it... split not just one or two BUT 14 times! Maybe it's why that melancholy look of all these ancients and their stupid vague dialogues; like OH the mystery... drama... cliffhanger... And dun dun dun... next expansion...

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Originally Posted by Astro_Starmaker

Bullet points of how I imagine it would go...

1. We reach the part of the story where we become fully rejoined

2. Through the echo of our own memories we merge with our past selves, becoming two Ancients in one ( the Graha treatment )

3. Wake up in Elpis or somewhere else in the old world

4. Find Hermes and convince him not to send his Meteion flock into space

5. Timeline splits

6. We travel with Hermes and our other favorite Acians, around Etheirys and space

7. Explore the 6 worlds we see in The Dead Ends dungeon as well as on Ultima Thule

8. Omicrons could be the big threat

9. Save the dragons home Dragonstar, stop the war between the two factions, cure the disease etc

An idea if they continue the story after the new ten year arc.

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This I can actually see happening. I've fully expected the WoL to inevitably become fully rejoined, become Azem and travel back to the past to perform his role in everything that happens in the main timeline.

But I can also see this occurring as well. It would be so cooling the WoL became Azem and wound up helping save the Unsundered Realm! :D

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Originally Posted by TakoyakiLala

This I can actually see happening. I've fully expected the WoL to inevitably become fully rejoined, become Azem and travel back to the past to perform his role in everything that happens in the main timeline.

But I can also see this occurring as well. It would be so cooling the WoL became Azem and wound up helping save the Unsundered Realm! :D

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Mixed feelings about this.

I mean, it would provide one possible explanation regarding how Azem knew exactly when and where we would appear in Elpis (during Endwalker) and was able to advise Themis - he/she had already lived it, and our adventures are leading to a predestination paradox.

Although I hope not. I prefer the air of mystery around Azem and what he/she was doing during the Ancient's final days and don't feel it requires further elaboration.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The Tales story didn't "create" the branching timeline – that's a logical conclusion of the wider plot. What it does create (and I thoroughly dislike) is that they wrote a happy ending that makes it seem like the entire plot is a waste. The whole point was supposed to be that the other timeline's world had no hope of salvage and all they could do was send G'raha into the past before the aether-killing effects of Black Rose claimed everything.

Now we've got dear Raha mourning lost friends who are actually perfectly fine, and it feels cheap.

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"And in deepest despair, light everlasting."

Even that doomed timeline still has people who hope - and if they could figure out how to cobble together a TARDIS with a latent primal and a giant battery, I think they too might have been able to catch on that Black Rose cause stagnant aether and there might be a way to ward against aethereal corruption using dragon scales.

I don't think we are going to get a fully rejoined Azem, though. Will we pick up a few more shards here and there? Quite possibly.

I think instead we're more likely to get what Jesse Cox calls "The Azemgers" where we end up teaming up with another Azem shard or multiples of them, and they remain their own independent persons.

I'll bet a million gil that we eventually do learn what Azem was doing during the Final Days, though, and it's because they were trying to prevent the catastrophe in their own way.

They kinda lost that whole build up by rushing Endwalker into a smashed up mesh with some delightful highlights. Now? I could honestly care less about the Ascians or any rejoinings. We said our goodbyes to that. THEY already wrote it out.

Unless its an apocalypse event that changes the world and introduced a whole new cast. But Id rather it be a new game in that case with a new engine and new devteam and producer. Their idea of a apocalypse in Endwalker was like a fart in the sahara. Invisible and unfelt by anyone outside of Thavnair and even that lasted for what? An afternoon?