SAVAGE FIGHTS AND PF

Just a general complaint: My static is falling apart due to toxicity and players wanting to be selfish and try to clear stuff by themselves. There are people lying while joining savage fights to clear them and screw others over by not knowing the fight. I am new to this tier and I know I CANNOT clear by myself. I CAN'T get carried as dps either; what happened to people being a team? I thought this was a game to have friends and do stuff with? What happened to the multiplayer aspect of it and not afking IN LIMSA or UL'DAH? There feels like there is nothing else to do that isn't monotonous and boring and now that I have a taste of Savage I don't want to stop. I feel like I AM genuinely not getting my money's worth unless I am catering to unsavory folk or pretending to try to fit in. Even if I want to participating in the SOCIAL aspect of things with others it is always content that gets shortened or can be completed in a months time. It feels like everything can be played by yourself; it doesn't feel like a MMO anymore and probably never has been due to streamers.

I am just genuinely sickened by this aspect of the game, because I joined in the recent year and wanted to do this for the longest time. Everything has been reduced to people not being okay with people working or having day jobs. I do not know what to do at this point. My favorite game has dwindled to this much and my love to try to clear stuff and have others enjoy this game has fallen.

My advice is to join a static that raids Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday, then you can PF Friday/Saturday/Sunday/Monday. That way, you are not depriving them of loot if you PF later in the week. There is a PF boost at the weekend due to weekend-only players.

It can benefit the static for people to practice outside of PF hours though. It gives them practice, that they can then bring back to the static nights and hopefully be better at the mechanics.

As for it not being an MMO to you, that's an anecdotal experience and is typically due to not knowing how to get social interaction out of the game. It is definitely a massively social MMO. If all you do is hang around Limsa and think that's it, that's really just from not knowing where else to look:

• Roleplaying
• Bard performances or other performances
• Venues of various kinds
• Joining an FC that does things together, just need one with hardcore players in that don't take breaks for 4 months, or at least play the game daily/regularly
• Hunt train shout chats, and their conducting communities
• S ranks shout chats, and their spawning communities
• Joining a PF, where you interact with people prior to doing whatever content, including High-End duties
• Cosmic Exploration, just go into the most populated instance and talk in /shout
• Field Operations, similarly just talk in /shout a lot when that releases soon
• Alliance Raids, try actually talking in /alliance. It's usually fun if you bother to banter in it
• Statics (which you're obviously experiencing). While many of them fall out, others become good friends and others even do other activities together.
• Map parties (can join these in PF), usually very social since maps are boring
• Bicolor gemstone farms, usually very social again since FATEs are mindless
• Unsynced farms of old content are similarly very social since they don't involve brainpower
• Hundreds of thousands of discords for this game, usually get into them if you PF regularly or join an FC
• Novice Network if you're in it, or CWLS/LS which you can recruit for via Fellowships.
• The forums, reddit, etc.

I've not been lacking social interaction in 10 years of playing this because of all these things.

Like sorry, I used to work 40 hours per week and have an hour commute through and back. Unless I really devote my life to this game, I do not see this happening. If i based all of my relationships off this game, they would easily fall apart. Currently I used to work like 20 hours plus taking care of household stuff and barely even manage stuff. I know the fights and progged outside of static hours, but I cannot ask anyone else to do this. I lose friends in the process of seeing others want that and I understand why: this game isn't their life. I've never seen an mmo be someone's LIFE before. I am just UPSET that like this isn't available to others who have real life things to deal with. I'm getting sicker and it's sucking more to try to get others or talk to others in game as an autistic person to do stuff with. As someone who would devote their last 3 hours after cleaning and taking care of dinner, this game isn't worth pouring the hours anymore with. It's a general complaint. I'm just sick of it all. I'm done to catering to everyone's bs in spite of my own needs and wants. Im not dismiss what you said but it's not realistic to me. I appreciate you commenting though.

Spamming 123 and rolling your face over your keyboard every 2 minutes while working a memorized choreography is “your moneys worth”?

Your post reads a little like "I wanna become the best cesspit diver".

good point. LOL i would bond with every other serious healer lmao about this topic it would force me to go back to wow or other games i would enjoy healing in. I love ffxiv so much but god it like killed everything for me with the static stuff and pf I wanna like claw out my eyes memorizing every like opening for other healers and dps if I am able to. It stresses me out so much it's like if i wanna be able to do this content like OOP you have to find a static now who are very sane people or like a midcore/hardcore group who devote themselves to do it. God forbid you do a food service or child service job, like no i can't, Absolutely CANNOT take a week off to do pf or savage content despite how easy it would be to face smash and 123 LOL like no your lives are devoted to people who don't care about you or people who can't care for themselves. Like it's necessary for you to do! My free time would get used up by parents being crystal clear with me or like coworkers asking me for help. Life hits you like a truck. I've just never known a game to subject you to this mental torment before.

that's also why I stopped raiding I work 40 hours and go to bed at 20 where most static are active and I feel like the fight have shifted to badly for me. I miss the time when we have buff and debuff to deal with felt like it was more engaging overall

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Originally Posted by Ayanodead

Like sorry, I used to work 40 hours per week and have an hour commute through and back.

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I get that most players are casual players because they have jobs and so on. That said, while many use that as an excuse, there are people who work and still play the game a lot after and complete grinds, participate in social events or join a static. Depends a lot on what they do after work and how exhausting their job is. As I mentioned, activity spikes at the weekend so a lot of people just catch up on things then when they are not working.

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Unless I really devote my life to this game, I do not see this happening.

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I'm not gonna lie to you. The High-End duties that I see working for someone with a busy job and a busy life is Extreme trials. Contrary to what people on these forums say, they are pretty fun to learn and farm, and it's fun to help others get the clear. They are not as frustratingly punishing as Savage, but they aren't content you can do blindfolded like most things in the game are.

In many raid tiers, you can get the clear on the first and second floors pretty casually in PF as well. Once you get to the third and fourth floors, it starts to make you want a static, even in tiers where people claim the third floor is easier. Usually, regardless of if it actually is easier or not, it also has a steeper DPS check or backloads a challenging mechanic that is bound to go wrong without the sort of coordination you get in a static.

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If i based all of my relationships off this game, they would easily fall apart.

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You don't have to base relationships off the game, necessarily. I interact socially in the game, but that doesn't mean I have any sort of a deep relationships with anyone. Relationships require time and effort, and it's not always reciprocated, so it's fair to ask yourself if it's worth the effort. My social interaction is as shallow as that of someone who works in retail or reception (I talk to people in passing then never see them again in many cases), and that's fulfilling to me personally.

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I've never seen an mmo be someone's LIFE before.

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MMOs used to be people's life if they were played. They weren't playable casually - or were difficult to play casually due to being extremely grindy, with rare RNG drops that you need, or asking you to do something hundreds of times. At best, you'd login casually to do a tiny percentage of these grinds each day. Then their endgames would sometimes have very complex systems and/or something resembling raids/pvp that would consume a lot of preparation time. This game has remnants of that but it has moved away from it in many areas, compared to other (especially older) MMORPGs - with features such as /teleport, /dutyfinder, separate instances for each raid boss and limited buffs that trivialize travel and preparation.

Savage or Ultimate can certainly be one of the pieces of content in this game that consume a lot of time to clear due to the sub-par performance of 1 or more of their party members (which may or may not be them, in many cases it's not). Getting a team that is in sync generally is also a factor.

That said, there are teams that are in sync and have been together years and well, they're lucky enough to always be able to clear things fast without it consuming too much time. Not everyone's lucky enough to have found their A-team, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Ayanodead

Just a general complaint: My static is falling apart due to toxicity and players wanting to be selfish and try to clear stuff by themselves. There are people lying while joining savage fights to clear them and screw others over by not knowing the fight. I am new to this tier and I know I CANNOT clear by myself. I CAN'T get carried as dps either; what happened to people being a team? I thought this was a game to have friends and do stuff with? What happened to the multiplayer aspect of it and not afking IN LIMSA or UL'DAH? There feels like there is nothing else to do that isn't monotonous and boring and now that I have a taste of Savage I don't want to stop. I feel like I AM genuinely not getting my money's worth unless I am catering to unsavory folk or pretending to try to fit in. Even if I want to participating in the SOCIAL aspect of things with others it is always content that gets shortened or can be completed in a months time. It feels like everything can be played by yourself; it doesn't feel like a MMO anymore and probably never has been due to streamers.

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1. There is nothing wrong with clearing by yourself as long as you don't interfere with the static loot table.
2. You clearly have joined the wrong static. Understanding what you are looking for and which kind of static works best for you takes a while.
3. Make sure you discuss the loot assignment, expectations, and preparation in the very early days of static.
4. If your schedule is too hectic or you cannot commit to a general static, PF is a very solid choice. However, take PF-ing with a big grain of salt. It has positives and downsides as well.
5. A static is a secondary "job", make sure you understand that. As long as it requires a fixed schedule, joined equal efforts and working towards the same goals, it is a job. A fun one, but still a job because raiding with a static requires coordination and willingness to commit to a bunch of agreed-upon rules.

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Originally Posted by Ayanodead

Just a general complaint: My static is falling apart due to toxicity and players wanting to be selfish and try to clear stuff by themselves. There are people lying while joining savage fights to clear them and screw others over by not knowing the fight. I am new to this tier and I know I CANNOT clear by myself. I CAN'T get carried as dps either; what happened to people being a team? I thought this was a game to have friends and do stuff with? What happened to the multiplayer aspect of it and not afking IN LIMSA or UL'DAH? There feels like there is nothing else to do that isn't monotonous and boring and now that I have a taste of Savage I don't want to stop. I feel like I AM genuinely not getting my money's worth unless I am catering to unsavory folk or pretending to try to fit in. Even if I want to participating in the SOCIAL aspect of things with others it is always content that gets shortened or can be completed in a months time. It feels like everything can be played by yourself; it doesn't feel like a MMO anymore and probably never has been due to streamers.

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So what exactly do you want to address? The static toxicty, the PF lying, the AFKing on Limsa, the lack of multiplayer or the fact that it doesn't feel like a MMO due to "streamers"?

Like maybe before you post take a breather, go take a walk, talk to a loved one or something.

Sounds like you never actually had a static to begin with.

Most of your problems could be solved by collectively being respectful and communicating your expectations and schedules to one another like proper adults.

Pretty much what happened to me, I was really interested in savage play over a year ago but couldn't stand pf so set out to create a chill static in my FC I co run for people who work/have busy lives. It worked well at first we cleared fights we were doing well but then inevitably you get the selfish types who get annoyed if people are sick or busy and/or feel like they're better than the rest of the team n ruin it for everyone. I couldn't be bothered to recruit for it again and I mean I'm a really stubborn person who hates giving up but this just did not feel worth it to me at all anymore. I've unsubbed now (runs out next wk). When it stops being any fun and there's just no decent social side MMOs quickly lose their appeal. For ppl saying it's a second job LOL statics should never feel like a job, it should be a group of like minded people who wanna hang out and have a laugh with the harder content because they've got experience in the game n wanna take it to the next level. So more like a club not a job.

I to a large degree blame how the content in this game is designed, and have opined on a number of occasions that this is what keeps FFXIV from being more successful in keeping people around post-story (thus, the sharp declines after even the most popular expansion launch periods, outside of patch drop bursts, and a population heavily buoyed up by RP venue players that often engage fairly little with content).

The fact that Baldesion Arsenal (which is a lot closer to how WoW raids flow, with perhaps the main difference being that WoW allows you to rez freely outside of combat, while it remains restricted between fights in BA) was such a big hit (and probably remains the most popular of the exploratory raids even now?) likely supports this theory.

People have made attempts to make groups that adapt around people's lives, as RuriStone notes. Discords have been attempted to provide a more welcoming than mainstream chill vibes environment, and at that at least they routinely succeed. And yet, none of these ever really prove entirely satisfactory, or at least they don't succeed in pushing back the tide of "job-like" raiding. While there's probably plenty of hyper-driven achiever types out there I would expect far more success in these endeavors, especially in a game that attracts the fun loving casual social player as much as XIV has.

The fly in the ointment is certainly the rigidity of mechanics. As I've noted in other threads. You're not really playing an MMO when it comes to 8P raiding you're playing Battletoads. Each player primarily a point of potential failure rather than a bolster to the group. If one player is behind you have to drop all the way back to their progress point or drop THEM, as they will more than likely keep wiping you around that point.

If we contrast WoW (and BA!) one thing that stands out is that it's altogether much more feasible for the raid to go on with a limited number of weak links (as long as they are not critical ones like the main tank).

The upshot is that if a player misses a prog session in FFXIV, that session almost might as well not have happened from the group standpoint, because you will have to mostly redo it with them next time (assuming the group learns at roughly the same rate). In BA, they might personally get left behind on the floor (due to rez limitations), and in WoW especially if it's just one person you can probably carry them until they either get up to speed or you decide on your own terms they're too much weight to drag along.

Is it any wonder attempts to form chill statics end up either with as much turnover as a PUG, or they stress fracture and disintegrate or give up and go back to roulettes and old mount farms?

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Originally Posted by Ayanodead

Just a general complaint: My static is falling apart due to toxicity and players wanting to be selfish and try to clear stuff by themselves. There are people lying while joining savage fights to clear them and screw others over by not knowing the fight.

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What exactly is going on? Are people reclearing without the static, and screwing up the loot for others? That’s not normal for a static to do.

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what happened to people being a team? I thought this was a game to have friends and do stuff with?
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I feel like I AM genuinely not getting my money's worth unless I am catering to unsavory folk or pretending to try to fit in.

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Find a new group of people, that aren’t “unsavoury folk.” Be more strict about who you join, and about seeing how the people are being you actually commit to joining a static. Non-casual groups will generally do a “trial” (tryout) so the new person and the rest of the group can see if they like each other, and occasionally casual groups will do this as well. Jerks are not gonna be fun to be around, and if you’re not having fun then that defeats the purpose of playing a game.

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Originally Posted by Ayanodead

I am just genuinely sickened by this aspect of the game, because I joined in the recent year and wanted to do this for the longest time. Everything has been reduced to people not being okay with people working or having day jobs. I do not know what to do at this point. My favorite game has dwindled to this much and my love to try to clear stuff and have others enjoy this game has fallen.

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I personally have never been in a situation where I’ve been in a static and not had a 40 hour/week day job. Find a group with a reasonable schedule. Most vary from 6-10 hours per week but there’s a decent amount on the lower end and also a fair amount of casual groups that will do 4 hours per less.

Is this your first static? It seems like you’ve ended up with a bad group and are thinking this is the norm. PF is an option too. If you’re not confident about your ability, make sure to look at guides for your job, to keep assessing how you’re doing, and maybe ask more experienced players for advice.

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Originally Posted by Ayanodead

Like sorry, I used to work 40 hours per week and have an hour commute through and back. Unless I really devote my life to this game, I do not see this happening. If i based all of my relationships off this game, they would easily fall apart. Currently I used to work like 20 hours plus taking care of household stuff and barely even manage stuff. I know the fights and progged outside of static hours, but I cannot ask anyone else to do this. I lose friends in the process of seeing others want that and I understand why: this game isn't their life. I've never seen an mmo be someone's LIFE before. I am just UPSET that like this isn't available to others who have real life things to deal with. I'm getting sicker and it's sucking more to try to get others or talk to others in game as an autistic person to do stuff with. As someone who would devote their last 3 hours after cleaning and taking care of dinner, this game isn't worth pouring the hours anymore with. It's a general complaint. I'm just sick of it all. I'm done to catering to everyone's bs in spite of my own needs and wants. Im not dismiss what you said but it's not realistic to me. I appreciate you commenting though.

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40h a Week is a standard norm in Germany and i still find time to raid 3x3h each week, if that is too much for you look for a 2x2h or 3x2h static, and if even that is too much for you, sorry but then maybe raiding isnt anything for you

i mean maybe you should state clearly what YOU expect right now, because everything i read is complaining without stating what you expect what you want, how many hours do you wanna raid? how often?

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Eh... I AFK in Ul'dah not because of a lack of social element (though I will admit I don't have any friends in this game), but rather I stand around doing nothing these days because I'm a casual player and I've come to gradually realize there isn't much actual casual content for someone of my skill level, rather it's all midcore to hardcore. Everything always hits a difficulty spike I can't overcome and I end up having to give up on content left and right, even the MSQ got rough in Stormblood and I actually failed some of those solo duties.

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eh? Like farming relics, fates, mount farming, maps, crafting, gathering, cosmic exploration, achievements, criterion, UR, EX.. etc

Midcore + Hardcore are Savage and Ultimates. By mid-core, I mean medium difficulty and time investment. Ultimates are Hardcore mostly because of the time sink required to get them cleared. They are surely more complex, but complexity is not the hard wall of them but rather consistency and mental fortitude.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

40h a Week is a standard norm in Germany and i still find time to raid 3x3h each week, if that is too much for you look for a 2x2h or 3x2h static, and if even that is too much for you, sorry but then maybe raiding isnt anything for you

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I don't know about EU, but in NA, such short hours statics in FFXIV are actually depressingly rare, at least ones that are publicly advertising openings.

Meanwhile people will routinely post 4x4 statics, and call them Midcore. (Like I'm sorry friendo, but that's literally enough hours to officially qualify as an actual part time job. That is not Midcore in the slightest. LMAO)

It seems like it is something specific about this particular game; in WoW, even Mythic guilds routinely run hours this short, and that is despite the fact that WoW raids have normally at least twice as many bosses as a XIV tier, plus extensive trash clearing and walking around in complexes that usually look like they were built for a people that would make a 10x size Tauren still look small. (Plus having to have the whole group physically travel to the raid entrance in the first place. Not all were conveniently located. Sanctum of Domination I'm looking at you.)

And yeah, the "MMO as somebody's life" vibe is real when it comes to modern team expectations.

I remember when I honestly thought we'd moved beyond that. In the olden days of MMOs, it was de rigeur to plan your entire life around the needs of getting ahead in the game (one of the big reasons I never got into MMOs before WoW TBC, unless you count GW1, although I did purchase and briefly sub to FFXI and EverQuest before abandoning them almost immediately).

Then we finally started getting our heads attached properly and understanding "dude, neglecting your RL for a game isn't cool." Groups started to reflect that (which is why 2x2 guilds became so commonplace in WoW).

And now we're backsliding. We're going back to "Change your job schedule around the game, not expect players to schedule around RL being a thing." We're getting to the point where planning PTO around expansion and patch drops is nearly expected if you don't want to be shunted into the Ralph Wiggum tier player pool. (This is probably making the game worse objectively as well because it's a lot bigger of a deal if anything gets delayed, so instead patches are more rushed and we get more emergency maintenances and not-actually-hot hotfixes afterwards instead ...)

What happened here? Where did rationality go?